Shimano Symetre Binding (Follow Up)

[Ern]

I had posted a little back about issues of the lube on a Shimano Symetre 2500 FJ. 

I got a lot of good ideas on what to use.  After fighting with the reel I started looking closer at the internals to see what was causing the problem.  I also found a site that went through the different lube types that Shimano has for their reels. 

I found out rather easily that the Permalube that Shimano recommends is said to be hard to find even from Shimano as they want to hoard it and very few retailers carry it. Secondly, I found out that it is the most Heavy of the grease types Shimano uses in reels.  Hmmm.

I read that the black friction ring can cause the binding too. I seen suggestions to replace it with a new or blue one from Shimano, to grease it, or to remove it. Friday night after another binding fit, I tried grease - still binding. I removed it- still binding. "Dang!"

I tore the reel down this past Saturday morning and got to looking at the guts really close. Drive gear and pinion were good. The bearings were all smooth. I even took the anti-reverse hub apart and cleaned it. What I did find was tooling marks on both the oscillating gear at the post and the inside of the oscillating slider.  Hmmm.   I broke out the dremel and a polishing stone I use with my guns and polished up the tooling. Much better but still catching.  "DANG!!!"  By design their is a flat spot that ever so often hits just right as the oscillating gear runs inside the slider. THE SOURCE OF THE BINDING ISSUE. The thinner grease was allowing for this spot to catch.

So I got out a box. wrote a letter and was planning on shipping the reel to CA.  Then I remembered the HEAVY GREASE. I have some heavy lithium grease in the garage. Worst case I get to clean it again.  I gave the gears I shot and the inside of the oscillating slider a double dose.  SMOOTH and no binding.  Needless to say I am happy.

 

Ern

[Darren.]

Very interesting, Ern. Haven't had the binding issue with any of my Shimano reels so far.

[F14A-B]

Nice work! Great post too.... Glad you figured that rascal out. Man, I strongly dislike taking spinners way apart! Nice follow up,

Tight lines!!

[desmobob]

My new Symetre started binding the second time I used it.  Instead of going straight to the friction ring fix, I tried relubing.  I used MiliTech grease on the oscillating parts and it seemed to do the trick (so far).  I really like the reel and was pretty disappointed when it started binding almost immediately.  I'm glad a simple lube change may be the solution.

 

Tight lines,

Bob

[k3bass]

The friction rings in newer Shimano spinning reels cannot cause binding issues. The friction rings that caused problems were the OLD solid black ones.

[WRB]

Dan Isaac at Reelex is a Shimano reel tech, one of the best in the country.

Tom

[Wayno]

I have 2 Shimano Symetre 2500. They are both 2 years old. Last week one started binding. Today the other started. I put new line and remove and replaced handle .dthe binding stopped for about an hour and started again..  Has anyone contacted Shimano about the problem?

[Dave A]

Thanks for the tip about the heavy grease. I will try it.

Dave

[mprestonSEK]

I had a 1000 Symetre FL that started to bind on me in a little over a year. The binding became so bad that I had to stop using the reel altogether. I took it apart and relubed everything but the problem persisted. I ended up buying a JDM C3000 HGM Shimano Exsence and haven't looked back.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Replacing the felt drag washers with Carbontex often corrects wet weather binding. Drying and greasing the felt ones can be a short term fix. 

[kickerfish1]

The only permanent fix is to buy a better reel. I had a reel tech attempt to fix the problem. After he thought he had it right it did it again. He sent into Shimano on his dime and guess what? It bound up the first outing of the year. Its worse during the rainy weather over dry conditions but I I would never buy another Sahara or Symetre.

[Bluebasser86]

14 hours ago, kickerfish1 said:

The only permanent fix is to buy a better reel. I had a reel tech attempt to fix the problem. After he thought he had it right it did it again. He sent into Shimano on his dime and guess what? It bound up the first outing of the year. Its worse during the rainy weather over dry conditions but I I would never buy another Sahara or Symetre.

I had a Sahara and Symetre that were both binding on me. Part of the reason why I tried Pfluegar and now only own 1 Shimano spinning reel (CI4). 

It has to be a well known issue for them and has been going on for at least a few years now, I don't understand why it hasn't gotten resolved. 

[smalljaw67]

I have said this before, the river anglers in my area used to call Shimano spinning reels "Shimbindo" because the very second they got any water on them from rain or an accidental dunk, which will happen when wading in fast current, the reel would bind up and was useless until it dried out. I'm not sure if that happens anymore but it wasn't long after that when the friction rings became a problem and would cause a lot of guys to lose lures when the bail would slam shut for seemingly no reason at all.

[kickerfish1]

20 minutes ago, smalljaw67 said:

I have said this before, the river anglers in my area used to call Shimano spinning reels "Shimbindo" because the very second they got any water on them from rain or an accidental dunk, which will happen when wading in fast current, the reel would bind up and was useless until it dried out. I'm not sure if that happens anymore but it wasn't long after that when the friction rings became a problem and would cause a lot of guys to lose lures when the bail would slam shut for seemingly no reason at all.

Yep, and just to be clear, the issue is only on the Symetre and below level reels. Perhaps not every variant made throughout the years, but for several models at least. The Saros/Stradic level reels and up have been outstanding for me. 

Under $100 I would buy a Phfleuger.

[fvogel67]

I love bass fishing,But I also chase catfish when I can.Today in the Miami Valley we had plenty of rain.I decided to hit a local lowhead dam on the Great Miami.I used an old Abu Super Seven and a Shimano Solstace 2500.My Shimano was soaked in rain for over three hours and did not bind at all.I'm not saying Shimanos won't bind but I own 7 and have never had a problem

[kickerfish1]

1 hour ago, fvogel67 said:

I love bass fishing,But I also chase catfish when I can.Today in the Miami Valley we had plenty of rain.I decided to hit a local lowhead dam on the Great Miami.I used an old Abu Super Seven and a Shimano Solstace 2500.My Shimano was soaked in rain for over three hours and did not bind at all.I'm not saying Shimanos won't bind but I own 7 and have never had a problem

The problem was prevalent only on specific Shimano Spinning reels and only from various generations. Not all Symetre reels bind. I have an older Symetre from the late 90s or early 2000s that I have never had an issue with. A previous gen Sahara FD (not the newest model) has binded on me off an on over the last 3 years.

[webertime]

I have a  Sahara FD that now feels like a Mitchell 300 of yesteryear...  binding iss terrible. 

Sent to a Tech, brainstormed and put in another handle bearing (making it a Symetre).

Heavy Grease

Saros Spool with better drag

Light Grease

Friction Ring replaced.

I now use it exclusively for dock-skipping or things that I don't actually have to retrieve.  A fish on the line actually feels smoother (not smooth).

 

[Baitbusta]

Been a Shimano fanatic for 25 years. No more. Bought a Sahara and a Symetre on sale this year...BOTH became impossible to reel. Bought 2 Nascis (3000 and 4000) also this year...one is a little rough but ok.

The poster that said buy better reels is right on. Next reels will be better Shimanos.

And Shimano, VERY DISSATISFIED with REELS LATELY. Not ready to buy Penn or Daiwa....but not too far off if u keep making throw away junk. 

"Quality is long remembered after price is forgotten"

[Darren.]

Welcome aboard, @Baitbusta.

 

Sorry you've had bad experiences with recent

Shimanos. I've had splendid success in salt/fresh

with Stradics. I've got FI, FJ, FK, and the newest

CI4+ HGFK (which is the best of the bunch).

 

The FI reels have had bail issues, but never had 

any binding problems even with them being dunked

in the water -- rinsed after the day fishing.

[fishnkamp]

I suspect Shimano discontinued the Symetre due to no solution for this.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The models referenced use oscillating gear instead of a worm gear. If the gears are not aligned properly it may be part of the problem. 

[lmbfisherman]

I have an old symetre still rock solid and the Stradic fjs rock! Interesting how some people get ? and write them off.

[Crestliner2008]

After replacing the inexpensive friction rings on two of my much older Symetre's, they are working fine. But I know Shimano has no intention of alleviating this vexing problem. Otherwise the problem would have vanished by now. The real kickers is that they kicked UP their pricing on their reels! I'm sure they've received a lot of complaints. Why they do not address this problem is beyond me.

 

I'm a fan of the Pflueger Presidents now. Less expensive and after 3 hard seasons of using 3 of these reels, I am more than pleased. No more problems or worries.

[RCA]

Have been very disappointed with shimano lately, all my reels have had friction rings turn to goo making the reel un-useable, last time was on the river bank, long walk back to the truck to get another reel, I replaced most rings with newer blue rings supplied by shimano at no charge but friction rings for my stradic 2500 are no longer available from shimano, had to order from Southwestern, $13.95 and from the feel of it I don't think will last, so long short of it all is I have gone back to Daiwa's and could not be more pleased, Daiwa does not use friction rings to Band-Aid design flaws, also if not for Daiwa's R&D and continued improvements shimano and others would have remained unchanged for the past 30 years.

On another note if you experience a spinning reel binding at one particular spot be sure to check the main shaft for a slight bend, even if you can't see it the slightest bend will cause binding. remove the shaft and roll it over a straight (flat) surface.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Fwiw the friction ring can be removed completely and barely noticeable in most cases.