Rod Building

[Guest DavidGreen]

Hey flechero,

Hows the rod building going? What blanks did you get?  

[flechero]

You know, I usually fly through the forum with blinders on and always look at the same things... I just noticed the tacklemaking section last night before bed!!  I thought I was seeing things!  ...lol

Reelmech,  I sent you an email before finding this...   but I have an SCIII and an SCV blank under the Christmas tree!!  (and a small box which I suspect contains a handful of Fuji Ti framed SiC guides!    I can't wait to get started!!

[Guest DavidGreen]

Hey flechero,

Did you get to read the e-mail, and did the spiral setup I use confuse you.....

[flechero]

Yup, got your email, no confusion.  Thanks again!  I won't be ordering the guides for the casting rod until I do some static placement work, I did however order the guides for the spinning blank... I took what I thought was going to be my finished guide needs and just ordered a few extras so I could get started as soon as it all arrived!

[flechero]

Hey ReelMech, is there enough height on the leg of a BLG to use the Forhan locking wrap?

Thanks!

[Guest DavidGreen]

flechero,

is there enough height on the leg of a BLG to use the Forhan locking wrap

Yeh they are low to the blank, so I use a 2 wrap then another 2 wraps on the frame and another 2 wraps behind then lock them. Most of the higher frame guides i'll make 2 wraps in front, then 3 wraps up the leg, then another 2 wraps to finish and then lock the wrap. The packing on the shorter guides is the important part. One other thing to note is on the shorter guide frames, the finish tends to want to wick up the frame with the Forhan wrap more, so more care has to be taken when wicking the excess finish from them.....

[flechero]

ReelMech,

I hit a ro*** yesterday... all those "premium flor grade" cork rings I ordered... from 2 different suppliers, looked like they came off of a shotgun range! They were pitted up like the inside of a loaf of homemade bread! Not even comfortable to hold in the hand. What a bunch of garbage! I glued em up anyway and turned a couple grips just to test out my home made lathe. I turned out some nice grips, to bad they were just for practice, since the cork was so bad. I had $50 worth of practice yesterday... and all I have to show for it is an angry streak. > I should have sent them back but I was dying to do something rod building related.

Who sells good cork? I spent $2/ring and got taken to the cleaners! The pictures they show, were at least 3-4 grades higher than what I recieved.

I was thinking of ordering some of Andy Dear's exotic burl, it looks good and I've heard others say it was good quality. Have you tried it? If not, do you have any suggestions on a supplier?

As always...  Thanks!!

-keith

[Guest DavidGreen]

Keith,

Oh man, that is why I only turn burl.....

I have seen Andy's exotic burl it is good looking and turns out some great grips. I haven't had a chance to get any yet but my next burl order is going to include some for sure. I get all of my cork from (Bingham Enterprises), Karen there has been my component supplier now for 15 years, she bends over backwards for me, and carries most all of Andy's components. ...

The grading system for natural cork is a joke. Back about a year ago Tom and some others on the .org site came up with a grading system that would have worked but only a few of the distributors went with it...

Let me know if you need anything.....

[flechero]

I've had an email into Andy, I think he's took some time off for Christmas.  I'll be ordering some exotic burl along with my other odds and ends when I hear from him.

Do you have a picture of any of your split grips?  I'd like to see them.  I have been thinking about it for some of my upcoming projects... and since learning that burl is heavier (thanks to you) I think it may make the most sense as well.

Thanks,

-keith

[Guest DavidGreen]

flechero

I've had an email into Andy, I think he's took some time off for Christmas.  I'll be ordering some exotic burl along with my other odds and ends when I hear from him.

Yeah he has been real busy with the new finish he came out with. I haven't been able to get to Tom's site all morning something has got that section of the net messed up for me. How about you have you been able to get to the site?  

Do you have a picture of any of your split grips?  I'd like to see them.  I have been thinking about it for some of my upcoming projects... and since learning that burl is heavier (thanks to you) I think it may make the most sense as well.

Yeah here are the links

There is a group shot here

My Grips here

You might want to take a look at this article also

Birth Of A Custom Rod

I'm going to be slow on replies today, trying to clear the bench of reel orders. I'll keep checking back in between orders.....

Tight Wraps!      

[flechero]

ReelMech,

As many questions as I ask you, I ought to put you on a retainer!! Thanks for the links, you make some great looking rods! Sometimes I need a visual to help me work through it.

I also was unable to get into the .org site today. But instead the mailman brought me all the backissues of rodmaker mag I ordered so I spent the afternoon reading. I have decided (and i have agonized over how I wanted to build them) to go with a split grip, no foregrip, cut down fuji exposed seat and a bumper set up. All I have heard and read tells me this will fit my style perfectly! All I have to do now is build it. I'm expecting the remainder of my ordered (spinning) components to arrive tomorrow or Friday so hopefully I'll get a good jump on things this weekend. I'll be starting on the spinning rod first since I'll not be able to use a BC for probably another 3-4 months. If the Dr. gives me a good report next week, I'll probably be able to use spinning gear by early Feb '06.

Have you had trouble balancing spinning rods with the split grip? I used to have a Diawa Light/tough spinning rod, the only one I ever had with a split grip but it was also the best spinning rod I had owned at the time... so I don't know if it was the grip or rod I liked. ...lol I expect a spin rod to be tip heavy but like to keep it to a minimum if I can.

One more bumper question for you... Why do they suggest using a small (8 or 7 ring) bumper and then back to a "normal" rest of the ring sizes... it seems to me if you choke to a 7 or 8 then there would be no need to go back up and then down again towards the tip. Am I out of line? I figure if I go to an 8 bumper. I'll stick with 8 and then 7's as running guides since the line has already been choked down.

Thanks again for all of your help!!!! Don't worry about answering my questions if you have reels waiting... I can wait until you have free time.

You are a true gentleman and a class act, a sincere thank you for all the help you have provided!

-keith

[Guest DavidGreen]

flechero,

I'm expecting the remainder of my ordered (spinning) components to arrive tomorrow or Friday so hopefully I'll get a good jump on things this weekend.

Great just take things slowly as you get started...

Have you had trouble balancing spinning rods with the split grip?  I used to have a Diawa Light/tough spinning rod, the only one I ever had with a split grip but it was also the best spinning rod I had owned at the time... so I don't know if it was the grip or rod I liked.  ...lol  I expect a spin rod to be tip heavy but like to keep it to a minimum if I can.

No really. The one spinning split grip w/seat you saw, wasn't much work. You need to tape the reel to the blank and check the balance a few times to get the spot that the reel will sit on. I usually try to keep spinning rods a little tip heavy (not much), I think it helps with the casting accuracy. As for the length of the grip that comes off of the seat, I mount the reel to the seat and have the customer grip the seat/reel combo and measure the length of the anglers palm and add a half inch. The fighting butt section is a case of personal preference on it's length.

One more bumper question for you... Why do they suggest using a small (8 or 7 ring) bumper and then back to a "normal" rest of the ring sizes... it seems to me if you choke to a 7 or 8 then there would be no need to go back up and then down again towards the tip.  Am I out of line?  I figure if I go to an 8 bumper. I'll stick with 8 and then 7's as running guides since the line has already been choked down.

When I set up my bumper style rods. A typical set up for a bumper style 6' spinner bait rod for me is #10 BSVLG stripper, then #5.5 BLG's on out to a BLLT-7 tip, the bumper is a #6 BLG, (all of the BLG's have the same frame size) these are all Fuji Hardloy®.

But don't try to just visualize this, wait until you can band up your guides on your blank and actually see what size you need under the static test.

David..

[flechero]

I will go slow, I'd rather take the extra time to do it all right the first time around than rush for the sake of finishing a rod.  Besides, I have lots of (good) rods to use until I can get a few of "mine" made.

[Guest DavidGreen]

flechero,

Thats the idea..... ;D

If you need any info just let me know what I can do.....

David    

[flechero]

ReelMech,

I placed an order with Andy Dear today, got a bunch of his exotic burl and a few more blanks.  ...lol I couldn't resist.  I had one specific blank in mind when I called him and ended up getting 5.  He bought a bunch of the blank stock from AllStar since they are no longer going to sell blanks to the public, needless to say he's got them priced to move fast.  Now I'll have blanks and cork on hand, when I get the urge, just order some guides and a reel seat.  I don't expect to get bored at all in the next few months!

Do you use alconites at all?  I am just thinking about a less expensive, good guide to use on these AllStar blanks.  I have 2 of them set aside in my head for gifts once they are built (assuming I can make em pretty!)  I want them to be high quality but don't want to break the bank on give aways.

[Guest DavidGreen]

flechero,

Yup Andy has got some fine materials. Yeah I was building on AllStar blanks when Shakespeare bought them. It was just after that, that they quit the blank program. Now you have the bait monkey and rod building addiction to contend with....LOL  ;D

Do you use alconites at all?

I only use the Alconite guides when requested by the customer. The rods that I make for tourney anglers have been using Hardloy, they hold up to braids well and when the tourney angler steps on them they are a lot less costly for them to have replaced. Although I was looking at Alconites the other day and saw that they were coming down in price thanks to the Titanium and Silicon Carbide guides that are now being used. No matter what guides you use, use the new concept guide spacing techniques.

I want them to be high quality but don't want to break the bank on give aways.

I did that just last year. I have a mail carrier that just bends over backwards for me and my shop, so I built him a spinning rod. Put Alconite® guides on it , balanced it to the style of fishing he did and the reel he said he used. Gave it to him, and found out to this day he has never used it, or even purchased the reel to put on it...

Lesson Learned....

[flechero]

I did that just last year. I have a mail carrier that just bends over backwards for me and my shop, so I built him a spinning rod. Put Alconite® guides on it , balanced it to the style of fishing he did and the reel he said he used. Gave it to him, and found out to this day he has never used it, or even purchased the reel to put on it...

Lesson Learned....

Sounds like you need to employ the services of a repo man!! ...lol

My planned give aways... one fishes with me about twice a week, the other is a brother, who fishes almost as much as I do. If they sit, I will repo them!

I've heard lots of people talk about the cost of replacing guides as a factor in purchase price... I don't get it. In the last 15 years, I have had 2 guides lose an insert and one shouldn't count because I didn't do it. (and the cost of the new guide and labor was $15 to fix it) Is it really that common for people to treat rods rough enough that they regularly break stuff? That baffles me. Even when I was fishing tourneys I had a little respect for a $200-$300 rod.

Here is my thought... the price difference in an Alconite and a Ti framed Sic, ranges from $4-$7 per guide on most casting guide sizes.  So even if you break one or two guides every year, it's a small difference in my mind.  Plus, the Ti frames Sic guides are advertised as "3 times stronger" so even if they were only twice as strong, it might reduce the number of repairs, right?  What am I missing?

[Guest DavidGreen]

flechero,

I've heard lots of people talk about the cost of replacing guides as a factor in purchase price... I don't get it.  In the last 15 years, I have had 2 guides lose an insert and one shouldn't count because I didn't do it. (and the cost of the new guide and labor was $15 to fix it)  Is it really that common for people to treat rods rough enough that they regularly break stuff?  That baffles me.  Even when I was fishing tourneys I had a little respect for a $200-$300 rod.

I think it is because of the unchallenged return policies that some of the manufacturers have. I mean have you ever seen a custom rod with an unlimited lifetime warranty. I haven't, but take a $300.00 Loomis, step on the guides and return it, no problem no questions. That's why they don't have any respect for $300.00 rods.

Here is my thought... the price difference in an Alconite and a Ti framed Sic, ranges from $4-$7 per guide on most casting guide sizes.  So even if you break one or two guides every year, it's a small difference in my mind.  Plus, the Ti frames Sic guides are advertised as "3 times stronger" so even if they were only twice as strong, it might reduce the number of repairs, right?  What am I missing?

It might.....

I have found that most guides, and it doesn't matter what model they are, get broken/bent in the process of loading and un-loading them from rod lockers, and then there are the guides that get crushed/broken from being stepped on, because the angler/s thinks that 8-10 rods on a deck while he dances around them is cool. No matter what kind of guide and no matter whether we use a Forhan Locking Wrap or not they are going to get crushed, bent, and broken, at least they won't be pulled out.

So IMPO it really doesn't matter whether they are expensive or not they will get damaged.

I digress here.... ;D

I remember back in the Loomis IMX days, I use to get Loomis rods in the shop for guide repair (tourney anglers stepping on them). When I cut the old bent/broken guide off of the blank I would take a jewelers loop and check to see if Loomis was really using Fuji guides (they are stamped Fuji on the frame). I found that Loomis although they advertised using Fuji guides exclusively, that the guide that I cut of was in fact a PacBay guide (Fuji copy). I even had one rod that came back multiple times, until I had replaced all of the guides on that rod with Fuji guides, I never saw the rod again....

To sum it all up, it is going to be what you think you want to place on the rod. If you were building commercially, your thinking process would probably change.

[flechero]

Without a doubt, if I were building commercially I would rethink it.  To your point even a Ti framed guide is still a very thin, frail object when stepped on.  That makes perfect sense.  

I must be more careful than most when loading and unloading rods... that started many years ago when I had to save $ for 4-5 months to get enough to buy an IMX... and they didn't have the $50 "no questions asked" warranties back then.  Funny thing is that I have been this way for so long that I don't look at it as careful anymore, just normal.

Thanks again for your patience, and thoughtful answers to ALLLLLLLLLLLLL of my questions!!

[Guest DavidGreen]

No Problem.....

Have a Happy New Year!