Austin2697 Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 I was wondering if anyone out there make a Rage Craw Mold. I know there are other companies that make something similair but its not like the real thing. If anyone knows who makes one or can make one please let me know. I know you can get in trouble for infringing but not looking to sell the baits just make my own. At $5 for a 7 pack im spending $15 a trip on Rage Craws. One fish and they are done. Three times in a to the claws hit the side of my gunnel and ripped em off. Its getting kind of ridiculous. Please let me know!!
Siebert Outdoors Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 No one can legally make and sell a replica mold of Rage Craws. They are patented and a mold will infringe on the patent. This happened awhile back when the aluminum molds got real popular with the Sweet Beaver. There were a lot of cease and desist letters being mailed out to the mold companies.
cadman Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 Like Mike Siebert said. You won't find a mold and no-one in their right mind will make one and copy it for you. It is illegal to even copy their product exactly for your own use. Either keep buying them, buy Netbait paca craws, or there are many other custom plastics guys that have a similar craw. I have used them all and they all work. One does not work better than the other in my opinion. If you put it in front of the fishes face it will eat it.
Super User F14A-B Posted June 4, 2014 Super User Posted June 4, 2014 While I understand you're drive to make these... It's a highly invested in Design....it does have Patent protection. I would urge you to find a alternative style craw if you want to pour you're own!
Comfortably Numb Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 I recently sold two of the molds for the baby Rage craw. They were 6 cavities each, aluminum injection. I sold them for $350 each. They were the only two in existance. The 702 craw mold from Basstackle is an equally good craw and in my opinion even better. Four cavity mold is $200 2
Ima Bass Ninja Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 Better options out there than infringing on someone's idea. Dicks just had a sale on rage tail buy1 get 1 free for 4:47. That's a little over $2 a pack. Academy regularly puts rage tail on sale. Plenty of options for finding them cheaper to save you some money.
primetime Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 Hand pours will end up costing more anyway, and there are plenty of hand pour companies making moneybut they cost more than a rage bug...Nothing beats a good hand pour but you can't call something a rage bug if it is not, and if you do it would be hard to sell as you would get busted quickly if in a public forum, so to make a mold for yourself I would rather buy a custom beaver in a custom color personally.. However, essentially all soft bait companies knock off each other, share baits, change up a few things..Rage bugs for example are coffee scented River bugs from bass pro only 1/8" shorter, coffee scented, and marketed like crazy as Strike king is huge right now......Lots of comapanies are literally packing bass pro current and disco'd baits in their produc lines. Bass Pro, cabelas, they never push a soft bait but often have the best ones for awile until they get borrowed by the larger boys and the patent often belongs to the oem anyhow.
Super User iabass8 Posted June 8, 2014 Super User Posted June 8, 2014 However, essentially all soft bait companies knock off each other, share baits, change up a few things..Rage bugs for example are coffee scented River bugs from bass pro only 1/8" shorter, coffee scented, and marketed like crazy as Strike king is huge right now.... Rage bugs are a different size, use different appendages, and body profile. (ribbed vs split ribbed) River bug Rage bug Lots of comapanies are literally packing bass pro current and disco'd baits in their produc lines. Bass Pro, cabelas, they never push a soft bait but often have the best ones for awile until they get borrowed by the larger boys and the patent often belongs to the oem anyhow. You do realize Bass pro, Cabelas, Gander mountain, etc plastics are all made by popular soft plastic brands. They don't manufacture these baits. They are made for them and relabeled... 1
SENKOSAM Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 http://www.cremelure.com/store/store_product_detail.cfm?Product_ID=171&Category_ID=16 Sold for $1.99 a pack. or you can buy the mold to produce the same exact lure with no legal restriction as I did: 1
Hyrule Bass Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 I was wondering if anyone out there make a Rage Craw Mold. I know there are other companies that make something similair but its not like the real thing. If anyone knows who makes one or can make one please let me know. I know you can get in trouble for infringing but not looking to sell the baits just make my own. At $5 for a 7 pack im spending $15 a trip on Rage Craws. One fish and they are done. Three times in a to the claws hit the side of my gunnel and ripped em off. Its getting kind of ridiculous. Please let me know!! so lets get this straight here. you are catching atleast 21 fish every outting? and what a vicious 21 fish they must be to destroy the bait everytime that you only get one use from each. i think youre wasting them, are too anal/skeptical about a partially torn bait, or arent thinking slightly out of the box...here is a quote of mine i took from another recent thread about rage craws in response to you only getting one fish per craw and claws tearing off i have never had that problem either. i get multiple fish on all my rage tail plastics. ive even flipped them upside down and fished them, torn some off the end to get fresh hook spots on a t-rig, and fished them with one claw or no claws where bass or bluegill bit them off and still caught fish on the rage craws and baby rage craws. but still, never just had a claw fly off on the cast... 1
Comfortably Numb Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 http://www.cremelure.com/store/store_product_detail.cfm?Product_ID=171&Category_ID=16 Sold for $1.99 a pack. or you can buy the mold to produce the same exact lure with no legal restriction as I did: Thats the Basstackle 702 craw I was talking about and NOT a Rage craw. Two totally different designs. I believe ALL Rage baits are covered by the same pattent. And that is for the ridge on the tail/claw/appendage. The shape of the bait is no coveredt.
SENKOSAM Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 The flapper action of both baits does the same thing - adds action tails to a skirted jig. I've used three different brands- Zoom, Rage Tail and the one shown - and catch just as many bass on each design, the 702 lasting the longest. Fish don't IMO give a hoot about ridges and other details many anglers insist noticeably improve a bait's success. There are far more important factors beyond basic lure design. 3
Mattlures Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Not cool to copy the rage bait. Design and make your own. Another easy option is get some Mend-it and repair the baits. Mend-it fixes them by chemicaly welding them back together. No hard crusty spots like super glues or pros soft bait glue, (Similar to super glue) You can make your rage baits last for a very long time. 2
Super User buzzed bait Posted June 9, 2014 Super User Posted June 9, 2014 Not cool to copy the rage bait. Design and make your own. Another easy option is get some Mend-it and repair the baits. Mend-it fixes them by chemicaly welding them back together. No hard crusty spots like super glues or pros soft bait glue, (Similar to super glue) You can make your rage baits last for a very long time. I bought some mend it for some soft swimbaits I have, it just hit me last week that I need to start using it on the rage plastics..... I'm always late to the game....
SENKOSAM Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Copying lures is a fact of life for those who can. As long as the maker doesn't sell them (openly), I don't see a problem, especially when the unit price is ridiculous. Many look forward to when a drug becomes a generic product because of a high cost per dose, at times over 150% higher than what it cost to make. A drug for my wife cost $5000/ month/ three times a week until it went generic. It's a wonder GY didn't get a patent on the Senko, a far more productive bait than the Sweet Beaver, and that Andre did sue many of the small guys. Of course GY was sued for using salt in his plastics by Gene Larew: It was an unusual patent, but they (Larew) had a patent. We fought it for awhile, but then decided to just drop it. I think I made Gene Larew rich. He never sold near the quantity that I sold, but I paid him a royalty. (GY) For personal use, a design will always be a target and more so when improved upon by modification. Look at swimbaits. Ever notice sb.'s club tail copy of the decades old Mr Twister Sassy Shad? Every swimbait that has been produced has the same back and forth roll of the S.S. and the shad had a patent going back to the 70's. Copying a part or the whole lure is no different IMO. The Ugly Otter is far more productive with it's similar body design than the Beaver and it costs less. Five different companies have modified the Beaver and the lures sell quite well. That's pretty much a law of economics - either prices come down as the competition increases (legal or not) or things happen. Don't think for one moment that the big boys don't copy knowing full well they won't get sued by those that can't afford a patent lawyer. As far as I'm concerned, the big companies are as as much in the wrong as the individual who copies for profit - the intermittent wiper patent law suit that took years to win is a prime example. 2
gripnrip Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Copying lures is a fact of life for those who can. As long as the maker doesn't sell them (openly), I don't see a problem, especially when the unit price is ridiculous. Many look forward to when a drug becomes a generic product because of a high cost per dose, at times over 150% higher than what it cost to make. A drug for my wife cost $5000/ month/ three times a week until it went generic. It's a wonder GY didn't get a patent on the Senko, a far more productive bait than the Sweet Beaver, and that Andre did sue many of the small guys. Of course GY was sued for using salt in his plastics by Gene Larew: For personal use, a design will always be a target and more so when improved upon by modification. Look at swimbaits. Ever notice sb.'s club tail copy of the decades old Mr Twister Sassy Shad? Every swimbait that has been produced has the same back and forth roll of the S.S. and the shad had a patent going back to the 70's. Copying a part or the whole lure is no different IMO. The Ugly Otter is far more productive with it's similar body design than the Beaver and it costs less. Five different companies have modified the Beaver and the lures sell quite well. That's pretty much a law of economics - either prices come down as the competition increases (legal or not) or things happen. Don't think for one moment that the big boys don't copy knowing full well they won't get sued by those that can't afford a patent lawyer. As far as I'm concerned, the big companies are as as much in the wrong as the individual who copies for profit - the intermittent wiper patent law suit that took years to win is a prime example. Man that's shady. I guess since you think the price is to high, you get to do what you want. 1
Mattlures Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Making a mold of somebody else's bait and copying it is lazy and steeling. When you design your own its yours. If you have the skills to make a mold and copy another bait then you should also have the skills to create your own. There is so much more satisfaction in catching a fish on a bait you designed. If you pour a bait copy, its not your design. You deserve no credit other then maybe you came up with a color pattern but you probably copied that to. The sassy shad patent has long since expired, meaning he got paid for his idea, he reaped the rewards for his work and now its ok for others to use that design. Also the original sassy shad had a very weak swimming action that has been greatly improved in most modern day swimbaits. This subject always ends the same way. The guys who do the copying defend their actions with a bunch of excuses. That are not true. " there is no new ideas" Lie, there are new idea all the time. "Every lure was based of another lure" not true some are and some aren't and most new designes are inspired by old designs but have changes and improvements. "The big companies steel from the little guys so its ok for us to copy somebody elses bait" Its usually the little guys who do most of the copying. Yes it has happened when the big guys steel from the little guys but how in the heck does that justify you steeling from anuybody? now if you just happen to be the actual little guy that got ripped of a big company then it would be reasonable for you to do it back to that exact company that ripped you off. Don't use that excuse to rip off some other company big or small. I do feel that its not nearly as bad to copy for your own personal use but even that is not usually the case. They give them to their friends or "only sell a few" to offset the costs. Either way the guy who invented the design is not being compensated when he should. Like I said earlier, Get some Mend-it and those baits will last a LOOOONG time. You will save money over the cost of copying. Or better yet Use you mind, your imagination, and create something. It is sooooo much more rewarding. 2
Mattlures Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Now watch I will get flamed by one of the copiers!!! 1
SENKOSAM Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Man that's shady. I guess since you think the price is to high, you get to do what you want. Pretty much. Just because the designer of a product had great success initially doesn't protect him from reality when he charges way over the cost of production. Ever hear of gouging? Reality dictates that those that can reproduce or modify a design at a far lower cost to the consumer, even though exposing themselves to a patent law suit if discovered, will create a demand. Consumers that buy bootleg copies at a cheaper price could care less who made it first, they want a product that lasts longer and that costs less. Lure making hobbyists are challenged by new designs and whether or not they sell a few, are impelled to see what all the excitement is about that makes the design unique. As in the example lures I mentioned earlier that are as good as the Rage Tail (which I bought and tried), I found no reason to reproduce them. My injection molds of the craw allow me to make a similar action bait at 1/10 the cost and that's good enough for me. But in Gary Y's case, there was more than just salt involved - his plastic formulation is unique and few have gotten it right. Larew's plastic is no way the same even with salt added and I believe GY was correct in fighting the lawsuit. Patent protection can only go so far to compensate those that have been wronged, but reality is a biactch when the consumer demands a cheaper product that performs. GY was right in not getting a patent for the Senko shape seeing as how many copies are out there. But he knew his plastic formulation would excel and though expensive per stick, still sells millions of lures annually. I leave moralizing to priests and politicians, neither of which are shining examples.
Super User roadwarrior Posted June 10, 2014 Super User Posted June 10, 2014 We are absolutely against any form of illegal fishingand will not allow any such threads or posts advocating such activity. All such posts are deleted. In addition, any material or posting that advocates or discusses illegal activities, with or without the intent to commit them, is prohibited. This includes activities such as software and music piracy, and other intellectual property violations. All postings should obey copyright laws. If a member cites articles or information from other sources or areas of the Internet, a URL should be posted with no more than a small portion of the article's text. Such a practice provides credibility and attribution to the source of the information. Legally, the article copied from a website belongs to that particular website and pasting the full text in a posting is an infringement of copyright laws. This thread is closed. -Kent a.k.a. roadwarrior Global Moderator
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