Native Watercraft Kayaks

[hoosierbass07]

  OK, I've fished from my Ride 115 (Wilderness Systems) four times now and love it!  I absolutely love being out on a kayak and fishing.  But a new problem has popped up - I need another kayak so I can take family members with me!  So here is what I'm thinking - I'll put a family member in my Ride 115 and by another kayak only for my use.  

 

 I guess if there is one dislike I have with the Ride 115 is that it is heavy at 76 or so pounds.  Even with the seat out its heavy.  When I started looking up lighter weighing fishing kayaks I found Native Watercraft and read they are one of the most popular fishing kayaks/canoes in the market.  

 

 So, for those of you that have fished from them and used them - are they a well made kayak?  Is the company a good company?  

 

 The kayaks I'm looking at are the basic Ultimate 12, the Ultimate 12 Angler, and the Ultimate FX 12.  I would be using this for bass fishing in small ponds/strip pit lakes and maybe state park lakes but not open water oceans.  

 

 I notice the Ultimate FX 12 has anchor trolleys on both sides.  And the Ultimate 12 Angler has rails on the sides.  Are the rails on the sides important/useful? 

 

 Out of those three, which one would you recommend?  To be honest, I want any new kayak I buy to be light and strong.  That's what I'm looking for, light and strong.  Those Ultimate look like they might be what I'm after.  

 

 Also, since there are no scupper holes and it has low sides, is it easy to swamp this kayak/canoe?  

 

 How is the seat?  Those kayaks with raised seats that look like camp chairs or lawn chairs look real comfortable.  I think the Ultimate FX 12 has a low/hi seat.  Is that option really useful?  

 

 Finally, is it easy to keep things organized in those Ultimate 12's?  In my Ride, there are two big hatches.  But so far, when I'm out on the water I don't want to mess with trying to dig around inside those hatches.  I think I would love the openness of the Angler 12.  

 

 Anyway, I'm having a blast kayaking and I mean a blast!  I wished I would have gotten into this hobby many years ago.  It is fun!!!! 

[B@ssCrzy]

I am sure that DarrenM would be able to comment more on the Native as I believe he fishes out of one and is a big proponent on them.  Of the few things that I know...I know they are a good kayak that a lot of people like for their stability, open cockpit and great seat.  I have heard it is very comfortable for most people.  I don't have an ultimate, but have a Jackson Cuda and it has the same ability for high and low seat position.  Yes, it is worth having that.  It gets you up another 4" which may not seem like much, but it helps you to be able to see that much more and cast better as well.  The only question I have is why would you go to a sit-in style yak when you enjoy the sit-on-top.  I am sure that hoisting 79 lbs around is a big job (which is why I did not go with a ride), but there is also a middle ground that you might consider.  Like the Jackson Cruise 10 or 12 angler....doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the Cuda, but is still a SOT and weighs 16lbs less (cruise 12) without the seat in it. Also, if you don't have a kayak cart yet you ought to get one.  It makes a world of difference in transporting them!!!

[flyfisher]

I don't have the ultimate but i do have the commander and it is pretty much the same boat.  They are great flat water or non technical river boats.  Yes they don't have scuppers but i haven't had a problem with mine as of yet and i have done some river floats as well.

 

The open layout of a hybrid is great for flat water and makes storage of gear a breeze.  I have sat in the ultimate seat and it is pretty awesome to say the least.

[2833-34497]

I have a Wilderness Commander 120 and Tarpon 100 along with two 12' Hobie Pro Anglers. I like the kayak/canoe hybrid of the Commander and never had any issues with water (even though carrying a hand siphon pump is recommend because you never know). On the Pro Anglers the sitting that you can adjust up an additional 4" is handy also; just wish the Pro Angler was lighter since it's become my favorite overall to fish from. For you I'd recommend asking to do a demo and try it out make sure you like it. Most dealers will do a free demo then check the weight, tracking, stability and comfort. That's really the best way to make sure you get what fits you because we all have slightly different tastes/needs!!

[sully99]

I have a Ultimate 12, and love it. I've never had a problem with swamping. You have to know you're boats limitations and stay with in them. I've been kayak fishing since 99' and have owned both SINKs and SOTs and the Ulitmate is by far my favorite. The new FX models are set up very well I would defanatly consider them.

[hoosierbass07]

I don't have the ultimate but i do have the commander and it is pretty much the same boat.  They are great flat water or non technical river boats.  Yes they don't have scuppers but i haven't had a problem with mine as of yet and i have done some river floats as well.

 

The open layout of a hybrid is great for flat water and makes storage of gear a breeze.  I have sat in the ultimate seat and it is pretty awesome to say the least.

 

 

  What's the weight of your Commander with the seat out?  

[2833-34497]

  What's the weight of your Commander with the seat out?  

The 12' Commander is 64 lbs but I don't know if that's with or without the seat. Seats pretty light and I car topped mine with the seat in it!

[Darren.]

Hoosier,

 

The U12 models are fantastic boats, and infinitely customizable.

 

My U12 is 55lbs w/o the seat.

 

The FX series have been somewhat redesigned, the pontoons are more square inside so as to be a better standing platform. That said, i like mine just fine. The diff between the Commander and Ultimates, besides the seating, the Commander pontoons come into the boat, the Ultimates are convex. When I tested both boats in-store, my personal preference was the Ultimate. I just liked the seat better, and I preferred standing in it.

 

I personally wouldn't get an angler model unless it is set up the exact way you want it. I am constantly evolving my setup. I've added a 30lb thrust MinnKota to mine, similar to the bassyaks.com mount. I've raised my seat up to sit across the gunnels.

 

The FX models have the new seats that mount high or low. Very nice. If I were in the market again, I'd seriously consider one. I never sit low in my U12 any more. Ever. Sitting high has changed the game for me comfort-wise, and it's 100% easier to stand as well.

 

Anchor trolleys - the FX is nice with two. My U12 has the adapt-a-track which you can attach bow/stern skirts to, etc. Useless to me, and I've been pondering removing them and adding a trolley to the other side of my yak.

 

With my seat high, I can keep a LOT of tackle underneath me. I even added a drawer from a fridge underneath the seat in which I keep 4 3600 size tackle boxes a spare prop, and several other items.

 

I haven't swamped my U12 yet. Is far more stable than any canoe I've owned.

 

As me any other questions you have, I'm happy to offer thoughts and opinions.

[sully99]

If you are looking for light see if you can find a used U12 Tegris, Native doesn't make them any more but they are only 36 pounds.

[hoosierbass07]

 I weighed my Ride 115 this afternoon without the seat and it came in around 78 pounds.  I do like my Ride 115 but the next kayak I get will definitely be lighter because 78 pounds seems a little too much considering most of my fishing is done on small ponds.  

 

 So, is the Ultimate 12 very durable?  I mean, I don't do any whitewater or any creeks/streams where I could ram into rocks, only ponds and maybe a state park lake.  Being a hybrid at 55 or so, can it hold up to good solid use?  Also, does it hold up well to being stored in cold conditions?  It got down to -15 here in Indiana over the winter.  I would of course keep it in a shed.  

 

 One of the things about the Ride 115 are the hatches.  I don't think I will have much use for all the storage inside the front hatches.  I think I would use it more if it were open like an Ultimate or other sit-in-side hybrid.  

 

 I think I like the seat in my Ride 115.  It's not a a LazBoy chair but it's good enough to comfortably paddle and fish from. But I think I would really enjoy those larger camp chairs that the Ultimate and others have.  

 

 I have to admit I really like the look of this FX 12 -  

[hoosierbass07]

  Maybe I should have asked - are there any good sit-on-top fishing kayaks that weigh less than my Ride 115 (78 pounds) and are well made from a good company around $1,400 or less?  Lets say in the mid sixty pounds range with the seat out?  Yeah, I think I would be willing to go up to $1,400 for another sit-on-top if it's lighter than my Ride 115 and built well and will last many years with a good warranty.  I keep seeing Jackson and Hobbie mentioned on TV whenever an outdoor show talks about kayak fishing.  Actually, it was ticking me off a little because those have been the only two I hear them talk about.  Are those two the two largest kayak companies in the U.S.?  Whenever I watch kayking fishign videos and there's a Jackson Cuda or something in the background I seem to find at least one comment saying "Hey, is that a Jackson Cuda?" like they are famous kayaks.  

 

 The kayak I will buy, whatever one I buy, is for small pond fishing.  

[hoosierbass07]

I don't have the ultimate but i do have the commander and it is pretty much the same boat.  They are great flat water or non technical river boats.  Yes they don't have scuppers but i haven't had a problem with mine as of yet and i have done some river floats as well.

 

The open layout of a hybrid is great for flat water and makes storage of gear a breeze.  I have sat in the ultimate seat and it is pretty awesome to say the least.

 

 

 

  How sturdy/strong is the Commander?  I found a message board for Native Watercraft owners and I discovered a number of posts dealing with cracks in their Ultimate hybrids.  Now that makes me skeptical.  I seen a couple of posts about people launching from concrete boat ramps and their hull starting to form cracks or something.   If I pay $800 or $1400 I want something strong that can take abuse.  How about the Wilderness Systems Commander?  Being able to fold the chair down and sit up looks like it would enjoyable. 

[2833-34497]

Yes the folding down on the Commander and sit higher on the hard sit is a nice feature I've used (I carry and foam cushion to sit on then since I'll fish for 8 hrs at a time, LOL). The Commander is sturdy but while you can stand in it me being tall at 6' 2" I don't like standing in it like my Hobie Pro Angler for example, but a shorter person may not have that issue. As for any kayak that gets dragged on boat ramps it will wear thin where dragged and crack just so you know.I still recommend doing demo's to make sure your happy also by trying different one your thinking about getting if possible. Trust me it eliminated some I thought about getting within 5 mins just from stability or handling which may have come from even just being tall at 6" 2" and about 240 lbs. If it helps any I've wheeled my Tarpon and Commander for about 1.5 miles down trails to gravel pits and ponds with no problems. I haven't wanted to try my Hobie Pro Angler because of it's weight but I love fishing from it the most but if it comes to paddling I like my Wilderness Tarpon and Commander but the Ride wasn't availble when I got those. I think it came out a few months later! Again good luck and demo some you'd be happy you did! Well off kayak fishing now for me. LOL!!

[B@ssCrzy]

The Jackson kayaks are mentioned a lot because they are great kayaks.  They were specifically designed for fishing and with fisherman in mind.  So they just work.  Yes they are very durable as well.  You mentioned people launching from concrete boat ramps and starting to form cracks in there boats.  Normally that is from the skeg (very rear of the boat) just being warn away due to dragging on the rough concrete.  One thing that I like about my Cuda is that it also has a replaceable skid plate on the back so if you do wear down the skeg you can just pop it off put on the new one and you are back in business.  There are a lot of good kayaks out there and the ones that you are talking about are all good it just comes down to which one satisfies the most preferences you have.  Only you can decide that.  Good luck.

[THE_Vue's]

http://nativewatercraft.com/boat_detail.cfm?id=48

[flyfisher]

I am not sure why launching on concrete ramps is an issue unless of course you are not floating and you scoot your way out into where the boat can float.  Any boat will have problems if you do that repeatedly and you see it a lot on river boats but still only after years of abuse.

 

the commander also has a removable/replaceable skeg that is designed to take the brunt of any dragging of the boat around.  I fished probably 200 times out of my commander and never had any issues other than the captain's perch support breaking which was a common problem in their earlier boats.  And as far as warranty goes, I called the place i bought the boat, they asked me to send them some pictures and the hull id # and within a few weeks I had a brand new 2014 commander that has sadly never even been in the water yet.  Another bonus is it has the new seat which is pretty nice compared to the old one but i rarely use the seat.

[hoosierbass07]

  Hmm, I see the Wilderness Systems Tarpon 100 is listed at 52 pounds on the Austin Kayak site.  I read the Tarpon is the Wilderness Systems most popular fishing kayak.  I chatted online with Austin Kayak and they said the Tarpon 100 was the little brother to the Ride 115.  What's the word on the Tarpon 100?  If it comes in at 52 pounds, heck even 60 pounds would be OK, and sold for $704 or so, that sounds good to me.  

[Tugmaster]

I have a Commander 120 and really like it. I did this very simple seat mod. It is even better now! It is not very heavy. I put on and off the top of my car by myself with no issues whatsoever. I'm using Yakima Q towers and a Yakima boat bar . Here are some pics. Todd

[hoosierbass07]

  I see Hook 1 has the Tarpon 100 for $600 and I think that comes with free shipping.  Austin Kayak has it for $709 and free shipping and the angler package for $769.  I'm not getting rid of my Ride 115.  This second kayak would be used on small strip pit ponds for bass fishing.  Is this ten foot kayak worth the money?  I mean, does it paddle OK for a ten foot sit-on-top?  And I love the Dusk color you can get this kayak in.  

[hoosierbass07]

 I'm on Google Earth trying to figure out how many miles I paddle when I go fishing.  Most of my fishing is done at strip pit ponds/lakes.  I would same my number one spot I do a round distance of .30 miles, that's round trip.  My second fishing area would be .82 miles.  Finally there is a longish strip pit lake and that would be 1.40 miles.  Now at the state park with the big lake, I've been making a round trip of 1.19 miles.  The Ride 115 is my first kayak but in my opinion I'm happy with the way it paddles and glides in the water.  I think when I'm at the state park lake I make pretty good time.  How much slower would that Tarpon 100 be compared to my Ride 115?  

 

 I was at the lake this evening fishing from my Ride and had no bites.  For a moment or two I wished I had a touring kayak so I could simply paddle long distances around that lake. lol.  It is so relaxing being out on that water in a kayak.  

[2833-34497]

  I see Hook 1 has the Tarpon 100 for $600 and I think that comes with free shipping.  Austin Kayak has it for $709 and free shipping and the angler package for $769.  I'm not getting rid of my Ride 115.  This second kayak would be used on small strip pit ponds for bass fishing.  Is this ten foot kayak worth the money?  I mean, does it paddle OK for a ten foot sit-on-top?  And I love the Dusk color you can get this kayak in.  

I've used my 10' Tarpon but wish I would have got a 12' instead (same with my wife for a little extra room). Weight is like only 5 lbs difference I think! Someone cn correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Ride came out and combined the better feature of both the Tarpon and Commander is the way I understood it.

[2833-34497]

 I'm on Google Earth trying to figure out how many miles I paddle when I go fishing.  Most of my fishing is done at strip pit ponds/lakes.  I would same my number one spot I do a round distance of .30 miles, that's round trip.  My second fishing area would be .82 miles.  Finally there is a longish strip pit lake and that would be 1.40 miles.  Now at the state park with the big lake, I've been making a round trip of 1.19 miles.  The Ride 115 is my first kayak but in my opinion I'm happy with the way it paddles and glides in the water.  I think when I'm at the state park lake I make pretty good time.  How much slower would that Tarpon 100 be compared to my Ride 115?  

 

 I was at the lake this evening fishing from my Ride and had no bites.  For a moment or two I wished I had a touring kayak so I could simply paddle long distances around that lake. lol.  It is so relaxing being out on that water in a kayak.  

 

 I'm on Google Earth trying to figure out how many miles I paddle when I go fishing.  Most of my fishing is done at strip pit ponds/lakes.  I would same my number one spot I do a round distance of .30 miles, that's round trip.  My second fishing area would be .82 miles.  Finally there is a longish strip pit lake and that would be 1.40 miles.  Now at the state park with the big lake, I've been making a round trip of 1.19 miles.  The Ride 115 is my first kayak but in my opinion I'm happy with the way it paddles and glides in the water.  I think when I'm at the state park lake I make pretty good time.  How much slower would that Tarpon 100 be compared to my Ride 115?  

 

 I was at the lake this evening fishing from my Ride and had no bites.  For a moment or two I wished I had a touring kayak so I could simply paddle long distances around that lake. lol.  It is so relaxing being out on that water in a kayak.  

I started with just the 10' Tarpon and 12' Commander and wanted to go farther all the time, so get something that allows for your growing into because kayak fishing is addicting, LOL!!. The longer kayaks paddle better/easier for distance also. That's also why why I ended up getting a Hobie because I was fishing 9 mile round trips with the 12' Commander and with the Hobie I do it in half the time. If you start doing longer trips/outings you might want the SOT and here's why; with my Commander I'd leave with no wind and when the wind kicked up later in the day I had to be more careful with waves breaking over the bow on the Commander. On sit on tops you don't have to worry water filling a kayak! Either way it was still fun, but something to keep in mind on longer trip since my lake gets windy in the afternoons! Here's a pics of mine!

[hoosierbass07]

I'm not buying a second kayak until mid July. So I still have some time to consider other boats. Everybody seems to like those Jackson kayaks. Why are Jackson's considerd so great? If I was going to buy either the Tarpon 100 or Jackson Cruise 10, is the Cruise 10 a no brainer and the clear choice? The thing I don't get about those Jackson's is that I don't see any rails like the Wilderness System kayaks have. And I noticed on Jackson's site they say they only offer a one year warranty. Is that correct?

[hoosierbass07]

 This is the largest body of water I will probably kayak in.  Besides this it's small ponds and small strip pit lakes.  When I go kayak fishing on small ponds its very fun and relaxing.  But when I go to this big lake I'm usually sore the next day and yeah - I'm very very sore!  I felt like I got beat up by a football player.  lol.  I guess I'm a little out of shape.  lol.  

 

[hoosierbass07]

I've been reading reviews on my Ride 115 and I've read a good number of reviews saying this kayak is heavy at 78 pounds and one site said it feels more like 85 or 90 pounds. So no doubt this kayak is one of the heavier ones out there.

So if would get , say a Jackson 12, that is listed as 63 pounds without seat, that kayak will be way more manageable for one person (me)?

Would a cruise 12 be good for large lakes?