Tournament Cheating

[onefinalcast]

Ran across this article today on some cheating in a bass tournament on Lake Guntersville.

http://whnt.com/2014/05/12/two-bass-fishermen-accused-of-using-previously-caught-fish-in-tournaments/

I don't fish competitively but do people really go to these extents?

[slimshad]

Thats two big ones that have surfaced this year.  Some big money in these tournaments.  Bad thing is some of the cheating is in club tournaments.  Is it really worth it?  Really?

[BuckMaxx]

I know a guy that has been kicked out of two clubs for cheating. Both times numerous non boaters witnessed him streching fish (card tournements. Calling an 16 1/4... a 17. Idiots...

[Zach Dunham]

It really is a shame, but having this go all over the internet is the best thing that can happen. Hopefully they never get a chance to rip people off again.

[slimshad]

I know a guy that has been kicked out of two clubs for cheating. Both times numerous non boaters witnessed him streching fish (card tournements. Calling an 16 1/4... a 17. Idiots...

 Man I guess if he was doing it all the time...  I don't think this is bigtime cheating.  He isn't putting fish in a basket.  Our club you get a one pound penalty and loose that fish.  Measuring fish has always been iffy in my book.  I have been a tourny director for 5 years and I have had to p!ss some people off.  I touch the lip with a closed mouth and fan the tail.  If it touches, it touches.  If it don't you get the penalty.  I have brought some really close ones too.  I always have someone else measure at the weigh in.  We also give one courtesy check before you go all in.

[Koofy Smacker]

 Man I guess if he was doing it all the time...  I don't think this is bigtime cheating.  He isn't putting fish in a basket.  Our club you get a one pound penalty and loose that fish.  Measuring fish has always been iffy in my book.  I have been a tourny director for 5 years and I have had to p!ss some people off.  I touch the lip with a closed mouth and fan the tail.  If it touches, it touches.  If it don't you get the penalty.  I have brought some really close ones too.  I always have someone else measure at the weigh in.  We also give one courtesy check before you go all in.

Our club is one short fish DQ's you for the whole tournament. Happens more than once your done. We've had the fish commission sit at our weighins a ton. We used to do a courtesy dink check for guys until the one guy came up with one that went short and he ended up getting a few hundred dollar fine for possessing a short fish.

[Crookedneck]

I've seen cheating 3 times in the last couple years that resulted in eliminations. Fishing outside marked boundaries x2 same team both times. Another time I took second to a team that accepted 1st on a clerical mistake on the leader board. After it was all said and done they knew it was a mistake and didn't bother to say anything. The mistake was an even 10lbs....they weren't even in the top 10. The boater in this one was involved in the two cases prior also. They have been banned from several clubs now.

[Zach Dunham]

Our club is one short fish DQ's you for the whole tournament. Happens more than once your done. We've had the fish commission sit at our weighins a ton. We used to do a courtesy dink check for guys until the one guy came up with one that went short and he ended up getting a few hundred dollar fine for possessing a short fish.

 

That's absolutely ridiculous. Things like that are what turn people away from fishing. Someone makes a mistake and a fish misses length by 1/4 or 1/8 of an inch and they get hit with that?

[Brian Needham]

That's absolutely ridiculous. Things like that are what turn people away from fishing. Someone makes a mistake and a fish misses length by 1/4 or 1/8 of an inch and they get hit with that?

 

while I understand.......it is also things like that, that protect the lakes.

the game warden is gonna say " you have a bump board, use it."

and the warden is right.... there is no excuse for short fish.... it either touches or it dont.

Most times, if it is a "coin flip" or it is not perfectly clear, without question I throw it back.

 

if you thiunk that is bad, come on down to Mississippi and get caught with a few short crappie, and you'll be lucky to keep your boat..... but that is also the reason why Mississippi has world class crappie fising too.

[Zach Dunham]

while I understand.......it is also things like that, that protect the lakes.

the game warden is gonna say " you have a bump board, use it."

and the warden is right.... there is no excuse for short fish.... it either touches or it dont.

Most times, if it is a "coin flip" or it is not perfectly clear, without question I throw it back.

 

if you thiunk that is bad, come on down to Mississippi and get caught with a few short crappie, and you'll be lucky to keep your boat..... but that is also the reason why Mississippi has world class crappie fising too.

 

Even if the law is written totally black and white, its short or its not, it doesn't mean that wardens can't use judgment. Police and wardens alike use judgment all the time on who they let go or give a lesser offense to. It's a tournament where the fish is going to be released anyways and it is likely so close that it "could" have made 12 inches on some boards. There is no need to take the full force of the law at someone for that.

 

I actually had this issue once. We had a fish that was 12 inches long on our board and it was literally a millimeter short on the official tournament board. We put the two boards next to each other and, sure enough, they were a millimeter off. Sure, I could have thrown it back because it was close, but it WAS 12 inches on my board, literally right on the line. We lost that fish plus a 1 pound penalty because I didn't know at the time that this particular club did courtesy checks before weighing (that is my fault). Technically, I guess I could have been fined for that. That's what I mean about a judgment call. Fining someone for that kind of thing is not protecting any fishery, it is being a jerk. Lucky for me, it wasn't a big deal.

[VAHunter]

It's a shame cheating happens, but some will go to any length no matter the potential payout.  We had a guy here bring in one fish after a particularly tough day of fishing.  Big fish probably only paid a couple hundred dollars.  He weighed his fish and was immediatley questioned as the whether he caught it or picked it up off the lakes surface.  The fish had obviously been floating for some time.  The water was still very cold, but you could tell the fish had been dead for a while.  This particular angler was given his cash for big fish and threatened by about everyone present with bodily harm if he ever tried to enter another tournament.  Needless to say, he hasn't been back since.  In fact, nobody even sees him out fun fishing.  I have seen guys in our tournaments catch a 5-7 lb. bed fish and toss it back without thinking twice.  Even though I couldn't tell, the fish was foul hooked and the guys here know the rules.  Intentional or not, a foul hooked bed fish has to go back.  The vast majority play by the rules, but it only takes one to give us all a bad name.

[Brian Needham]

Dunham- there is no doubt I agree with you in princple.... but the rules are the rules and thats all the warden is going to see. Like in my crappie example, it is a big issue down here so they pop everybody and pop them hard so they dont do it again.

 

and with the tournament example above maybe that warden has caught several tournamnets keeping short fish and it has become an issue, so he popped the guy.

 

I know one lake I fish it has a slot limit of 13-16 inches.... I like to keep fish for day end pictures, if it is a 16inch fish I let it go, all fish that go in my livewell are OVER 16inches just so I dont gett hassled.

In fact the slot limit reads "13-16 fish must be released mmediatly" which means it better be OVER 16 if you want to keep it.

 

It is always in the vocabulary used, and we all have to be careful and measure correctly. To the point of err on the side of caution.

Dont make the rules, but we as fishermen better follow them...... cause there are plenty of people that dont.

[Brian Needham]

another best practice on measuring..... find out what bump board your tournament director uses and buy THAT board..... and find out what board your warden uses and buy THAT board.

 

problem solved..... if we want to get serious and not have question, then we have to use the board the officials are using, then there is no arguing.

[Zach Dunham]

another best practice on measuring..... find out what bump board your tournament director uses and buy THAT board..... and find out what board your warden uses and buy THAT board.

 

problem solved..... if we want to get serious and not have question, then we have to use the board the officials are using, then there is no arguing.

 

We got a new board after that incident, and also learned that we can get a courtesy check before the weigh in. A few of these lakes around my area are just full of 12-13 inch fish and not much bigger, so they are measuring fish all day at the weigh in.

[VAHunter]

 

we all have to be careful and measure correctly. To the point of err on the side of caution.

Agree.  I have been the weigh master for more than a few tournaments.  I keep the golden rule handy and measure any fish that is even slightly questionable.  If it's mine I have someone else do the measuring and weighing.  I used to get a lot of moans and groans, but after I kept checking everyone, and catching several short fish, the guys now appreciate the effort.  As Brian noted, if in doubt, toss it back, or at the very least, get a courtesy measure.

[Zach Dunham]

I just want to say also, by no means am I complaining about the penalty and whatnot. We deserved the penalty and we learned from it. My point was just that getting fined for such a thing when I thought it was actually 12 inches would have really set me off. I've seen people sitting on shore keeping every single fish they catch and I've called fish and game and they say they'll get there and they rarely ever do, yet they make it a point to be at a lot of bass tournament weigh ins. I just don't get it; the people keeping every fish they catch, well past any limit, are much more dangerous to the fisheries than bass anglers who are 99% catch and release, and yet that's what they focus on. Maybe it is just PA that is like that.

[VAHunter]

I just don't get it; the people keeping every fish they catch, well past any limit, are much more dangerous to the fisheries than bass anglers who are 99% catch and release, and yet that's what they focus on. Maybe it is just PA that is like that.

Agreed.  I've also been witness to these activities and have also reported them.  We have had plenty of wardens come to local tournament weigh-ins, but they seem to concentrate on checking licenses, etc., not so much about fish length as they know we have rules penalizing that practice.

[Brian Needham]

I just want to say also, by no means am I complaining about the penalty and whatnot. We deserved the penalty and we learned from it. My point was just that getting fined for such a thing when I thought it was actually 12 inches would have really set me off. I've seen people sitting on shore keeping every single fish they catch and I've called fish and game and they say they'll get there and they rarely ever do, yet they make it a point to be at a lot of bass tournament weigh ins. I just don't get it; the people keeping every fish they catch, well past any limit, are much more dangerous to the fisheries than bass anglers who are 99% catch and release, and yet that's what they focus on. Maybe it is just PA that is like that.

 

it irks the crap out of me too.... and sadly those bank fishermen dont have license either most of the time.

[clark9312]

http://www.parislanding.com/bass_cheaters_63006.htm id say this happens more then we realize.

[gripnrip]

I hate seeing this type of thing.  In my club it is golden rule all the way.  In the summer months we do paper tournaments.  When I catch a fish and measure it, I always have the boater verify what I am seeing. On the larger fish, I even have him look over my shoulder.  Just to make sure.  There was one instance that I realized I didn't have the fish completely bumped.  He didn't catch that mistake.  Now if I had wanted to I could have just taken the extra bit.  It would have helped me.  It is not the proper thing to do though.  So I measured again.  

 

We have to police ourselves as well as others.  Keeping each other honest is the thing to do. 

[jhoffman]

PA is rough on the tournament bass angler for sure. Ive seen them at weigh ins too. Ive also seen them walk a fifty boat field and check vins to make sure no one is running a 25 hp on a 20hp lake. Then turn around and blow up the middle of a lake with a 150 wide open.

[Zach Dunham]

PA is rough on the tournament bass angler for sure. Ive seen them at weigh ins too. Ive also seen them walk a fifty boat field and check vins to make sure no one is running a 25 hp on a 20hp lake. Then turn around and blow up the middle of a lake with a 150 wide open.

 

Yup. Actually, just the other day at Promised Land Lower Lake, we saw a ranger going to put in buoys to block off an area where there is a bald eagle's nest, and he was using a gas motor on an electric only lake. Go figure. 

[mram10us]

We had a bass trap found by someone and reported to the F&G.  The officers than told our club about it prior to our tournament that morning and someone destroyed it.  Would have been great if the officers would have just watched the thing and saw who was using it.

[Swamp Johnny]

Years ago, (early 90's) I was deciding which Club I was going to enter in Florida. (There are numerous clubs in Fla.) Typical to most clubs (at the time), you had to fish with a member in a tourney as a non-boater before being able to join. The guy I was fishing with snagged a Rattle Trap on a dock along a shoreline- with no way to retreive it without getting out of the boat.

 

Sure enough, without any fanfair, he jumped out of his boat and walked the length of the dock to retreive that Rattle Trap. He got back into the boat aked me if I was "Cool" with what he did- I said "Sure". He did that twice during the tourney. Needless to say, I didn't join that club. 

 

SO, I ended up joining a different club.

 

During the first year of joining my (2nd choice) club, the guy that was the leader (in points and club wins) got caught getting out of his boat and walking to a nearby oxbow pond to catch his fish. It was amazing......there was a fight.....the guy was in tears swearing he didn't know that was illegal....what a fiasco!

 

That put a bad taste in my mouth for tournament fishing for close to 10 years.

 

Thank god most tourneys are better managed in this day and age.

[Pz3]

Simple answer is catch more toads win more and give the boards a break.

Jokes aside. I hate cheaters.