The Spawn - Temperature Or Time?

[Brian Needham]

just read the blog....... seems like his main point was they will be moved up move than some people might expect because of day lenght.

 

and the bass will come in and out, waiting for the stable warmth to get bedded down..... sure he did say he has seen on bed fish in upper 40's, but that is an execption not the rule.

 

KVD was hammering home something I have heard CATT say before.... "it starts before you think it does"

[Catt]

My question when the subject of temperature comes up is what about power plant lakes that stay above 60 or creeks that never ever see 60.

[J Francho]

Those are unusual circumstances the weren't part of the original question. It's like answering the question of where bass spawn. They like a hard bottom. Where do they soawn when there's no hard bottom? The next best place. In less than ideal circumstances, the spawn using the other cues, cues secondary to water temperature. Just look at Florida or Mexico. Those fish spawn when the water cools.

[Mainebass1984]

I thought I have read the mortaility rate is very, very high, upwards to like 80% or so....... can someone verify or bunk this?

 

 A friend of mine that works for US fish and wildlife emailed me a study on largemouth bass survival on the Housatanic River and Three mile pond. Very interesting stuff. Bass survival from egg to swim varied from nest to nest a high of 68 % with a low of 28 %. Then after 15 days post swim up survival was 19-25 %. Not all fish completely spawned. There were several females that spawned only a portion of the eggs they developed. One female didn't spawn at all. Very interesting stuff. I realize this is only one specific case involving two bodies of water in New England. I am sure there is regional differences in success rate and from nest to nest as well as from pond to pond. If only 19-25 % survived until 15 days post swim up of the 28-68 % that originally swam up then  you can surmise that the number of surviving bass is quite low. Not covered in this specific study but, in New England 15 -30 % of the remaining young of the year will survive their first winter.

[bassguytom]

There was a local study here done on 2 similar lakes. On the first lake they just observed the water temp., moon phase and length of day. On the 2nd lake the biologist placed an underwater speaker system in the water and played some Barry White. It was observed that every fish spawned in the 2nd lake that season. Go figure.

[Brian Needham]

thanks for posting that maine basser!

[Brian Needham]

There was a local study here done on 2 similar lakes. On the first lake they just observed the water temp., moon phase and length of day. On the 2nd lake the biologist placed an underwater speaker system in the water and played some Barry White. It was observed that every fish spawned in the 2nd lake that season. Go figure.

 

just cant get enough of yo love baby! eh?

[Catt]

Those are unusual circumstances the weren't part of the original question. It's like answering the question of where bass spawn. They like a hard bottom. Where do they soawn when there's no hard bottom? The next best place. In less than ideal circumstances, the spawn using the other cues, cues secondary to water temperature. Just look at Florida or Mexico. Those fish spawn when the water cools.

Or temperature aint all that!

[Lund Explorer]

FYI -

I know this is supposed to be about LMB, but in my mind a fish is a fish and this information may provide a little food for thought.  The following are parts of a posting made on another outdoors forum.  The poster is a Michigan DNR fisheries employee discussing when they will harvest walleyes during their spawning run on the Muskegon River.  The MDNR harvests eggs and milt to use for their stocking programs throughout the rest of the state.   Several MDNR employees post regularly on this forum, and the main reason for this post was to warn steelhead fishermen to be aware of the potential danger near the electro-fishing boat.

 

We are tentatively scheduled to check walleye for ripeness Monday March 31st. We will be shocking between Croton and Pine Street access. What we find then will dictate what date the egg take begins. Thanks again for all your cooperation. Below is the press release for this year.

Mike Wilson
DNR Fisheries
Plainwell

 

The DNR plans to collect walleyes with an electro-fishing boat beginning as early as the week of March 24 and concluding by April 15. Eight days of fish collections are planned during this period. The actual date when collections will begin depends on water temperatures and the presence of ripe fish. This schedule can change on a daily basis for many reasons, but it is anticipated most work will be completed during the last week of March through the second week of April.

 

We spawned 75 pairs of walleye today. About 75% of the females were green so it looked like we hit the beginning of the run which is what we aim for. Temperature peaked at 35.5 today on the USGS site so the water is still quite cold. Photoperiod also plays a role in spawning time so the temperature isn't the only factor dictating spawning time. We are planning another egg take Tues 4/8 and tentatively 4/9 and 4/14. As always, the run dictates our schedule so I will update after each days egg take. Like last week, we did see a decent number of steelhead, but only a handful of fresh fish seen. Only saw one steelhead landed today as we were shocking which is unusually low during the egg take. We will probably start shocking around 9am at Croton. As usual, we try to do all our shocking between Croton and Pine Street. I will update after tomorrows egg take.

Thanks,

Mike Wilson
MDNR Plainwell Fisheries

 

Please note the "red" portions of these posts. 

 

Somewhere in the history of this other forum is a similar prior year notice of the MDNR's harvest when a much warmer than normal year had them on the river where they completed the entire harvest prior to the normal starting date. 

[Catt]

Temperature

Ripe Fish

Photoperiod

[5 Dollar Fishing Game]

Temps have to be right. Any fluctuations in the temps may deter their timing, but for incubation and blood flow and activity purposes, temps are everything.

[Catt]

Temps have to be right. Any fluctuations in the temps may deter their timing, but for incubation and blood flow and activity purposes, temps are everything.

Surface temps change rapidly, at 2', 4', 6' not so fast.

[Dwight Hottle]

Temperature

Ripe Fish

Photoperiod

 

X2  When those three elements coincide its game on.

[CDMeyer]

I would have to say it is a certain time..... but once it its that time it ahs to hit a certain temp, 54 in southern states and 59 in northern states for the bass to begin to spawn

So I guess both, get to a certain time of the year, the start prowling then hit the right temp and they spawn..... or

Get the temps and they start prowling and once ya hit the time of year the spawn

[flyingmonkie]

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you - what a great debate!  I've been out all week and was presently surprised to see so much discussion.  I love it when things aren't black and white.

[WRB]

Sometimes the spawn cycle goes off like clockwork, the weather warms in a steady manner, the water column warms, the ecosystem is stable. This isn't one of those years out west. 6 weeks ago my local lake was about a week away from the spawn based on males selecting bed sites, females cruising. 2 weeks of colder than normal nights in the low 40's and days in the mid 50's dropped the water temps about 5 degrees, the bass pulled back and dropped down into 15 to 20 depth, no shallow bass anywhere. The only thing that changed was water temps, the bass were ready.

This week the water I has returned to the low 60's and the bass are back, spawn should begin any time now.

The eggs were ripe, the length of day was right 6 weeks ago, the water temps changed...spawn changed.

IF we get another long cold spell, we may not have a good spawn this year, this has happened in the past where nearly the entire year class is lost from cold weather....and some of you still think temperature is a minor factor!

With the warm weather we have now both the early first wave of spawner's join the second wave and a massive group of bed fish share the same bed sites, good for sight fishing, not so good on the bass population in our small clear water lakes.

Yes the bass need developed eggs to lay, longer days help warm the water, if the water temps are not right, poor spawn can result.

Tom

[Scott F]

I'm surprised no one here brought up the full moon. I never believed the moon had any effect on the spawn but I've seen other discussions where they thought the bass spawned on the full moon. 

[WRB]

I'm surprised no one here brought up the full moon. I never believed the moon had any effect on the spawn but I've seen other discussions where they thought the bass spawned on the full moon.

Full moon is a big factor, the first wave of spawner's almost always coincides with a full moon cycle.

Tom

[Scott F]

Explain how a purely visual phenomenom can affect the spawn. The only difference between a full moon and a new moon is the light that is reflected off of it. If it is cloudy will the full moon start the spawn?

[WRB]

Explain how a purely visual phenomenom can affect the spawn. The only difference between a full moon and a new moon is the light that is reflected off of it. If it is cloudy will the full moon start the spawn?

www.moonconnection.com/tides.phtml

[Scott F]

Yeah, I get the moon's gravitational effect on something as large as an ocean. Even then, there are still tides outside of the full moon even though they might be smaller.  In a lake even as big as Lake Michigan or Superior, the tides are so small that they are barely measurable. In a normal lake the effect is a lot smaller. Your boat has more of a gravitational pull on a bass than the moon does. Again the gravitational pull of the moon is always present and the difference of that pull between the moon phases on a body of water smaller than an ocean is beyond miniscule. 

 

Another thing. If the spawn was influenced by the full moon, how is it that the spawn on the lakes does not all happen at the same time? In the lakes I fish during pre-spawn in Northern Wisconsin, some lakes being smaller and shallower are ALWAYS a week or so ahead of the larger deeper lakes. The main difference being the water temperature. 

 

If the moon has any effect on fish, the most pronounced time when the moon's pull is the strongest/weakest is when the moon is directly overhead or when it is on the other side of the earth. This lends itself to the solunar tables that predict the best and worst times to fish.

[bigbill]

I try to keep an eye on the water temp somewhat. I fish everyday anyway. When the spawn happens and when the bass do come off the beds they are really hungry.

For many years I was fishing by the mauri charts in the outdoor life magazine. They no longer off it.

I caught my BP of 10# when the charts said good early. These charts go by the moon phases. You need to adjust the charts to your time frame and where you live is what I mean.

Fish by the moon phases if your trophy hunting or trying to break a record. Believe it or not the more time your line is in the water the better chance you have.

The guys at fisherman did a show on fishing by the moon to catch record breaking fish.

[WRB]

Nothing in nature is absolute, these animals have evolved and the ones that survive continue the species.

The spawn is an act that continues the bass species, not all are successful. The misconception that all bass spawn at the same time or that a female bass only lays it's eggs in one nest is false. If all the bass spawned at the same time and females deposited all their eggs in one nest site any catastrophic event could end the species. The fact bass are in your lakes should prove they are successful at procreation. The fact bass are limited in latitude where the water doesn't warm above 50 degrees should make it clear that water temperature is important.

Believe whatever you are comfortable with. The moon has no affect on the spawn, water temps don't matter...whatever.

Tom