Giving Up Your Rights To Fish.

[Brian Needham]

Brian it is sometimes hard to convey meaning on the interweb. I was just trying to agree with you.  FWIW I also agree that having some legally caught fish in the freezer should not be illegal. The problem is trying to protect fisheries from those who would abuse the privilege. 

 

whoops...... my apologies.

[J Francho]

You know what freezing does to internal organs? Blech! I fillet them, and freeze them in water or vacuum seal them. Honestly, the ones in water taste best to me. A bunch of us would stockpile fillets for a big Labor Day picnic. We'd fry up hundreds of pounds of them. So yummy.

That's a off topic, though…carry on.

[FlipnLimits]

See I was told because it's a pin fire and they still sell bullets for it at wal mart I would need one. From the judge.... Are your WW2 rifles or pistols? I really never wanted to risk getting it registered. So if you can provide me the law on this I'd like. I'd personally like it OFF my pistol permit.

I wasn't sure of your question and after looking around, it seems it may vary by state.  You will have to check your local laws.  Some states want it registered, some don't.  I own weapons so some were bought through proper channels and I didn't see the difference because I have a permit to possess them. 

[Brian Needham]

yeah once I posted I got to thinking about the organs too........ I'll ask him in the morning.

 

I do know the way he does it, there is 0% chance of freezer burn and can last forever basically he said.

 

He is in his middle 60s and has done it all the old school ways and he told me how he started to do it a few years ago was the best tasting he ever had....... I am not a fish eater so I don't know.

[J Francho]

You know how those old guys are…my grandfather eats herring out of a can. Ugh. You can't trust their taste buds. Lol.

[Pz3]

I was a jail cop but one thing I did learn. "Probable cause". This is the term so many law enforcement officers love. Thats the grey area cops use to be dicks if you are a dick. Odds are most could careless to see your stupid fishing license. Since game wardens are at higher risk of being killed on the job and threat of budget cuts have to weigh on a warden quiet a bit. I cut them some slack.... in florida anyways.

[Swampstud]

I dont agree one bit with them searching myself or my property. Im always legal, but if im minding my own business and visually not doing anything illegal, no dnr or cop should even be able to stop me and start hasseling me. Now if they see someone from shore/distance doin illegal acts then by all means go get em. Im just fishing minding my own, and i wouldnt hesitate to confront any officer as to why there bothering me. Go bust a drunk or something.

[SirSnookalot]

This thread is about fishing rights.  If one disagrees with fishing regulations, you don't take it up with a game warden, you talk to to state legislators.  The trend today is wanting less regulations in our daily lives, sticking to fishing only we can't have it both ways.  If regulations are less restrictive there is a possibility that our fisheries will suffer.  Case in point the canal behind my home, at one time really good now it's terrible as cast netters have pillaged the fish.  The FWC can't be everywhere and by the time I call them, the purps are gone.

I fish for snook every day, we have legal seasons, slot sizes, limit 1 a day, it's common to see someone "sneak out" a snook, I've seen it many times.  I have no problem with a game warden or police wanting to search my car, if this helps to protect my fishery I welcome it. I don't feel I've given up any rights.

[Pmoss1]

Here in MS is the same. They can search anything they wish, including your home freezer

[Bluebasser86]

And that right there is an abuse of power. You can't be personally frisked without probable cause. Say no and call a lawyer.

 

I am amazed at people who just want to give more power to a few people when a lot of them already let that power go their head. (this part is not directed at you, boostr).

Not true, it's called a Terry Frisk. All the officer needs is reasonable suspicion, which is easy to have because most officers I know are suspicious of others by nature. Maybe his truck had an NRA, Glock, or Bass Pro sticker on it. I wouldn't have any trouble articulating the fact that most people who support any of those groups/companies own some kind of weapon. It isn't abusing my power, it's just me wanting to make sure I go home to my family at the end of the day or try to prevent someone from doing something stupid that might keep them from going home that night. The biggest issue with that story was the stop, you can't stop someone just because. If you are, I would suggest reporting the officer to their supervisor.

 

I believe some of the reasons that GWs have more powers is because of some of the issues they deal with in their line of work. 1 Almost everyone they contact is either currently armed, or has easy access to a weapon. 2. A majority of the evidence they are looking for is very perishable and easily disposed of. 3. Most of their victims can't talk so it's up to them to come up with more physical evidence in a case because he can't call Bambi to the stage to tell how some jerk shot at him from the road at night.

 

I have nothing to hide when I'm hunting or fishing and have no problem proving it to an officer wanting to check me. I'm always glad to see them out there doing their job and I've never met one that I didn't BS with for a few minutes about hunting or fishing after being checked. 

[Bankbeater]

I have seen this happen during hunting season also.  The Game Wardens will set up a blockage across a parking lot and you can't leave until they have check your vehicle.

[Zach Dunham]

Not true, it's called a Terry Frisk. All the officer needs is reasonable suspicion, which is easy to have because most officers I know are suspicious of others by nature. Maybe his truck had an NRA, Glock, or Bass Pro sticker on it. I wouldn't have any trouble articulating the fact that most people who support any of those groups/companies own some kind of weapon. It isn't abusing my power, it's just me wanting to make sure I go home to my family at the end of the day or try to prevent someone from doing something stupid that might keep them from going home that night. The biggest issue with that story was the stop, you can't stop someone just because. If you are, I would suggest reporting the officer to their supervisor.

 

I believe some of the reasons that GWs have more powers is because of some of the issues they deal with in their line of work. 1 Almost everyone they contact is either currently armed, or has easy access to a weapon. 2. A majority of the evidence they are looking for is very perishable and easily disposed of. 3. Most of their victims can't talk so it's up to them to come up with more physical evidence in a case because he can't call Bambi to the stage to tell how some jerk shot at him from the road at night.

 

I have nothing to hide when I'm hunting or fishing and have no problem proving it to an officer wanting to check me. I'm always glad to see them out there doing their job and I've never met one that I didn't BS with for a few minutes about hunting or fishing after being checked. 

 

I 100% guarantee you that if my person was frisked because I told an officer I didn't think I did what he said I did, I would win a lawsuit for a nice chunk of change. You can't feel up a person without good reason and me speeding or making an illegal turn is NOT reasonable suspicion OR probable cause to FRISK ME. Having an NRA sticker or BASS sticker on my truck is NOT reasonable suspicion to FRISK ME.

 

That IS abusing power. The people have a right to own weapons and a right to not have unreasonable search and seizure. Doing something that is perfectly within your rights is NOT reasonable suspicion or probable cause for a frisk.

 

I'm totally cool with opening my trunk or car door at a lake to show I have no fish. Or opening my livewells. Go for it. I give that up when I get a fishing license. You DON'T give up the right to deny getting felt up. Maybe I have a muskie hidden in my pocket....

[0119]

iabass8, this topic has nothing to do with fishing rights. The Officers tools to search conveyance's does not interfere with the act of a LAW OBIDING citizen in the sportsman like act of angling. Board members complaining that a few fleeting moments of their time are being taken just proves my constantly made point that today in American society, men are pansies. Every stinking one of us has the obligation given to you by God, to be a part of society. That includes being cooperative with the people whose duty it is to maintain the public good.

The only anglers who fear their rights are being yanked from them are those who have a baggie ofweed under the seat.

[DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only]

It all comes down to the principle of the whole issue. If we keep on giving a inch before you know it all your rights will be gone. It's all a money making propaganda. I think it is complete bull for a GW or Conservation Officer to just stop you and check you for your papers. If you have done nothing wrong why are they harassing you? What gives them the authority to harass us for no reason? I can tell you this, we give them the authority because we don't challenge them (legally not violently people) enough. He who does not fight for his/her rights will lose them". There is plenty of good work for them to do instead of harassing people to hit their quota on tickets. I know people are going, wait there is no quotas anymore. I call BS, if you are not producing (tickets) then your bosses think you are not doing your job. So you are left fighting tooth and nail to get every ticket you can out of someone or at least one big ticket to show that you are working.

 

 

I sit back and watch the GW/CO where I fish hiding with binoculars waiting to watch someone cast a line then get all excited (Oh my gosh he is fishing better go check his papers) as they fly over and check them for everything they can think of. It's annoying when you are trying to fish a tournament and have them come check you for all your stuff (fire extinguisher, whistle, life vest, throwable cushion, license, boat registration, and soon boaters safety course certificate). Then the next time you’re out they do it all over again, they get a attitude when you remind them they checked you the last 3 time you been out. As soon as those requirements don't produce they will be looking for the next thing you must carry. I have a idea do some research, observe some people, wait for a crime to be committed, wait for someone to report something. Don't just play the lazy numbers game and get a ticket for every 20 people you harass.

 

We as Americans have RIGHTS. I feel we are just content that we are allowed to fish and don't want to mess that up so we don't question/ or challenge enough. I wonder where all the money from all these license, tickets, permits, and taxes are going? If you factor all that money (and it is a HUGE number) I can guarantee you this it's being spent on some pretty disappointing ish. Sure some of it is going to a wonderful cause but I bet more than half is not. These greedy sons-of-gun are still hungry and thinking of the next great plan to get more.

 

 

Just my 2 cents IMO

 

 

J-

[Zach Dunham]

iabass8, this topic has nothing to do with fishing rights. The Officers tools to search conveyance's does not interfere with the act of a LAW OBIDING citizen in the sportsman like act of angling. Board members complaining that a few fleeting moments of their time are being taken just proves my constantly made point that today in American society, men are pansies. Every stinking one of us has the obligation given to you by God, to be a part of society. That includes being cooperative with the people whose duty it is to maintain the public good.

The only anglers who fear their rights are being yanked from them are those who have a baggie ofweed under the seat.

 

I'm pretty sure the only one violating board rules is you, calling people pansies. I'm also pretty sure that laying down and letting the government walk all over you when you follow the rules qualifies as a pansy. Take your complaining about this thread elsewhere.

 

What DelfiBoyzBaits said is exactly correct. Keep giving a little because it doesn't seem like a big deal, and over many years your rights are completely eroded. Go read about the reasons our government was set up how it was and why we started this nation.

[Lund Explorer]

I sure am happy to live in the State of Michigan.  The only people who have lost their rights to hunt or fish are ones that have been convicted of breaking one or more of the existing hunting/fishing regulations.

 

It's a simple process.  License fees pay for DNR officers to patrol and do random checks of fishermen/hunters, and those found in violation of the law will get a ticket, or a ride to the gray bar motel.  Others are turned in by concerned residents through the "RAP" Report All Poaching program which can lead officers to your home if the initial investigation warrants the effort to continue to that stage, and those people can get a ticket or might be arrested.  The violators get their day in court where they either plead guilty or go through a trial.  All of the guilty are subject to the same penalties.

 

Reading the ON PATROL section of Michigan Out of Doors magazine offers a fairly good idea of what these dedicated officers face everyday they're on the job.  These men and women are on the front lines of protecting our natural resources from the violators who don't think the rules apply to them.  The only problem I see is that there aren't enough officers to cover all of the woods or waters. 

 

I would suggest that if any of you are serious about seeing that your hunting or fishing opportunities aren't diminished by these poachers, that you spend time getting to know your local officers.  Turn the visit they make with you into a proactive experience.  I have NEVER had a negative experience with a DNR officer.  I smile, and immediately offer them my license, or to check my gear, or any fish I have in the boat.  If they want anything else, I gladly comply.  The same thing goes whenever I come across fisheries employees are doing a survey, or a campground employee stops at my campsite.

 

The bottom line is that I'm one of those guys who helped fund their paycheck, and I'm glad that they are doing the jobs I hired them to do.

[Zach Dunham]

 

 

I would suggest that if any of you are serious about seeing that your hunting or fishing opportunities aren't diminished by these poachers, that you spend time getting to know your local officers.  Turn the visit they make with you into a proactive experience.  I have NEVER had a negative experience with a DNR officer.  I smile, and immediately offer them my license, or to check my gear, or any fish I have in the boat.  If they want anything else, I gladly comply.  The same thing goes whenever I come across fisheries employees are doing a survey, or a campground employee stops at my campsite.

 

The bottom line is that I'm one of those guys who helped fund their paycheck, and I'm glad that they are doing the jobs I hired them to do.

 

And there is where the line should be drawn. You shouldn't ever just give up your rights. Checking your gear, your trunk, and your boat is plenty enough if you have a license and are acting normal. There is no reason to do anything else unless they are on a power trip. Like I said before, I'm cool with giving a livewell search or even a trunk search. The problem is most of these guys are actually out to make some money for the department and write little tickets for silly things that aren't the real problem. Same goes for traffic violations.

[Bluebasser86]

I 100% guarantee you that if my person was frisked because I told an officer I didn't think I did what he said I did, I would win a lawsuit for a nice chunk of change. You can't feel up a person without good reason and me speeding or making an illegal turn is NOT reasonable suspicion OR probable cause to FRISK ME. Having an NRA sticker or BASS sticker on my truck is NOT reasonable suspicion to FRISK ME.

 

That IS abusing power. The people have a right to own weapons and a right to not have unreasonable search and seizure. Doing something that is perfectly within your rights is NOT reasonable suspicion or probable cause for a search.

A Terry Frisk is different from a post arrest search. Generally, it's feeling the waistband and pockets, but the officer can not reach inside them unless something is found because it is a search for weapons only. Reasonable suspicion is basically less than probable cause and more than a hunch. So if the officer has no explanation of why they're wanting to pat you down then by all means let them know that you don't want them to, and you are correct that speeding or making an illegal turn is not a reason to search you. I know there is no way to convince you, but having been through the classes and studied the laws I'm sworn to uphold and protect, those stickers would 100% justify a Terry Frisk if the officer has requested you to get out of the vehicle to search it. If there is no reason to search it then tell them you don't want them to search it and you won't have to worry about it. It isn't saying people don't have a right to own weapons and it isn't an unreasonable search or seizure. Feel free to read up on Terry V. Ohio on the matter if you'd like a better understanding of your rights on the situation. 

[Zach Dunham]

search you. I know there is no way to convince you, but having been through the classes and studied the laws I'm sworn to uphold and protect, those stickers would 100% justify a Terry Frisk if the officer has requested you to get out of the vehicle to search it. If there is no reason to search it then tell them you don't want them to search it and you won't have to worry about it. It isn't saying people don't have a right to own weapons and it isn't an unreasonable search or seizure. Feel free to read up on Terry V. Ohio on the matter if you'd like a better understanding of your rights on the situation. 

 

I do not believe that to be true. And if that is true, then I have lost all hope for this country. The day that me having a Bass Pro Shops sticker on my truck makes me a reasonable Terry frisk target, I will go down fighting it.

 

EDIT: I just asked a buddy of mine who is a lawyer and he says that is DEFINITELY not cause for a Terry Frisk. Your conduct is the only thing that can give reasonable suspicion for that. So if you are following rules and aren't under the influence or threatening, a sticker in no way can justify that as it is a first amendment right.

[Lund Explorer]

By the way, if you are one of the group that thinks that conservation officers have too much power, there are several cures.

 

1. Become a CO yourself.  Then you can do things your own way.  You'll get to deal with all of the other fishermen or hunters and can explain why you are stopping them.  You can explain to the witness of a game law violation what you can do about it.  See how much fun it is when the others look at you like the enemy when you can't address their problems!

 

2. Run for Congress.  Don't just whine to your elected officials, become one.  You'll get the chance to explain to everyone in your district exactly how you feel about the issues, and you will get immediate feedback at the ballot box.  It's a great opportunity to see if your views line up with the majority!

[Lund Explorer]

And there is where the line should be drawn. You shouldn't ever just give up your rights. Checking your gear, your trunk, and your boat is plenty enough if you have a license and are acting normal. There is no reason to do anything else unless they are on a power trip. Like I said before, I'm cool with giving a livewell search or even a trunk search. The problem is most of these guys are actually out to make some money for the department and write little tickets for silly things that aren't the real problem. Same goes for traffic violations.

 

Every time you run across a DNR officer that has a bad attitude, this is the reason they are that way!

[hatrix]

I am not trying to rant of flame but the ignorance of the world around some people is slightly heart breaking.

"Sure you can do whatever you want cause you enforce the laws and I have nothing to hide"

People who fight for there rights are the #2 threat for terrorism behind returning vets being #1. How can that ever be?

[J Francho]

The contempt some have for the people that protect our privilege to hunt and fish is ironic to me.

[DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only]

I am not so sure they are protecting our rights or protecting their own interest.  FISHING/Hunting is not and should not be a privilege it should be a right.  At one time it was a right. Your words are correct now it is a privilege.  One day they will limit how many cast you can make a season.  It's amazing how much damage can occur from one little drop of water over a long period of time.  Drip by drip they are changing all of our rights into privileges, so what's next.  I know the extreme changes are not going to happen probably in my life time but what about my kids, and their kids, and their kids ect.

 

The contempt some have for the people that protect our privilege to hunt and fish is ironic to me.

 

 

J-

[J Francho]

Interesting perspective. In my state, our rights to fish have been broadened in my lifetime. This was achieved by anglers engaging the DEC, and organizing ourselves into one loud voice. I'm not going to get into the political details here, but suffice it to say, cooperation works better than disobedience.