Reevaluating High Reels

[WRB]

Today's latest craze is going to faster retrieve speed low profile bait casting reels. The Daiwa Tatula R-100XS is a good example and the reel that got my attention in late 2013. The R-100XS is rated 8.1 to 1 with recovery of 33.9* inches per handle rotation.

My initial reaction was why does anyone need a 8 to 1 ratio bass reel? My bias was about loss of leverage when using this reel for crank baits or controlling a strong hard fighting bass. Curiosity during a local (BAT) tackle show I picked up the Tatula R100XS on Tatula jig/worm rod and test casts several times. This reel is very smooth and the retrieve speed didn't seem noticeably too fast. To my surprise I really liked this reel and bought one with a show discount offering 10% off.

I am a jig fisherman and casting jigs long distance is normal. My retrieve technique is using the reel more than the rod, so the higher retrieve rate would impact this presentation. I also hook set by reeling quickly and rod sweeping, the faster retrieve rate may help. The past 4 months have proven I was wrong about the power of this reel, the 8.1 to 1 is just a powerful as my 6.3 to 1 reels. I was also wrong about the retrieve speed negatively affecting my presentation, simple adjustment to maintain retrieve pace cadence is natural. The hook set is improved with the higher ratio and the smoothness of this reel is exceptional. Controlling big hot fast bass is actually improved when first hooked and around the boat...win win.

I know own 3**Tatula R-100XS reels and converted to high speeds.

Tom

* actual measured at 33" filled 1/16" below full spool.

** Valley Sports sells this reel at the lowest price.

[Raul]

My signature says : everybody's talkin' 'bout the new sound, funny, but it's still rock n'roll to me. I'm not new to burning fast reels, they were already here more than a decade ago, so 30" plus IPT are not the new sound. Daiwa had the Procaster PT33SH, 7.1:1 GR and 34 " IPT, man that reel retrieves lightning fast ! I've owned it for a long time and it can do a lot of things, the only thing I don't fish with it are deep diving cranks, if the bait is capable of not rolling on it's side when reeled in then it feels like trying to reel in a bucket.

[Sam]

Great report, Tom.

 

Maybe one day I'll give the 8:1's a shot.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Remember to keep IPT and ratio in perspective. A high ratio doesn't necessarily guarantee higher IPT. When the Revo MGX came out touting the high ratio first thing I noticed was same IPT as pre-existing Revos. The rod and drag have more to do with controlling and landing fish but I do like the ability to take up slack quickly before they can dig in.

[doyle8218]

Great job - good info.

[Grizzn N Bassin]

Thanks ive been looking into this

[F14A-B]

Yes... You can have you're cake and it it too!

I think I really noticed the high speed/ power to boot in freshwater baitcast in about 2006

Truly the the 2 company's that can give you really fast speeds and power to pull high resistance baits are Shimano and Diawa

I have owned the PT33SH 7.1 and PT33 in 3.8.1

The 7.1 had speed.. For sure.. but no power

Conversely , the 3.8.1 had Power and was a slow ipt ratio....

Today's top manufacturer can give you super high speed and power in a reel! It is a awesome time period to watch manufactors engineer reels, to battle for profit... But also for pride!

Shimano or Diawa ? I don't believe you can go wrong either way!

[WRB]

Not sure how Daiwa over came the issue of high speed gearing that doesn't over load the crank shaft when under pressure from crank baits. Every high speed reel I have used in the past the cranking force loaded like a bicycle in high gear going up hill, you wanted to down shift to a lower gear. Burning a lure back faster is what nearly everyone thinks of with high speeds, however you can crank slowly effectively with this reel, that is what surprised me.

One reason a low profile reel may need higher speeds is the spool size doesn't maintain line per inch recovered like larger diameter spool round reel. The 8.1:1, 33" drops to 28" @ 40 yds of line off the spool or about 6.7:1 ratio. Spool fill levels are important when figuring reel ratio. When you fill a spool the line tightens with use and the fill drops down about 1/16" spool diameter, affecting the ratio of line recovered.

Tom

[Brian Needham]

Tom, I have a question.... in my lews reels a 6.4:1 is labeled 28IPT and a 7.1:1 is labeled 31 IPT.... shimano 7.1 is 27-28 IPT

 

is it really needed to go all the way to an 8.1:1 to get an extra two inches IPT? or is it just marketing a cool sounding number?

 

I have always wondered this.

(never measured my lews or shimanos so I dont know which side the hype would fall if there is indeed hype to have)

[Montanaro]

The difference between a couple ipt adds up fast. 3 quick turns on the reel and you are already half a foot ahead. 6 is a foot ahead. Let's say you gain two feet every cast with an 8:1 than with 7:1. Make 500 casts and that's 1000 feet. If you average 100 foot casts that's 10 extra casts. If you are flipping you are getting the bait in the water more than 50 more times.

[F14A-B]

In about 1988 shimano had a 2 speed low profile freshwater baitcast reel... Back then I believe it was a bantam magnumlite ... Can't recall gear ratios... Magnetic braking... I nearly bought it but didn't ... To say the least,it was interesting !

Tom.. Do you recall this reel? Does anyone? Lol...

[Brian Needham]

I meant mechanicly

[flyfisher]

The difference between a couple ipt adds up fast. 3 quick turns on the reel and you are already half a foot ahead. 6 is a foot ahead. Let's say you gain two feet every cast with an 8:1 than with 7:1. Make 500 casts and that's 1000 feet. If you average 100 foot casts that's 10 extra casts. If you are flipping you are getting the bait in the water more than 50 more times.

I get the more inches per turn piece.  but what does gear ration have to do with additional casting distance?  I also don't see the advantage in teh flipping scenario unless you are saying the xtra IPT yields a slighlty faster retrieve so you can get the bait back in the water but when flipping, the lengths of line out is usually pretty short so not sure how many extra casts you are getting in a day because of the increased IPT.

[Montanaro]

I often mix up pitching with flipping. My apologies.

Casting distance had nothing to do with IPT just using it in the math to show how many more casts you could get it.

[F14A-B]

I often mix up pitching with flipping. My apologies.

Casting distance had nothing to do with IPT just using it in the math to show how many more casts you could get it.

It's a good point, years and years ago I swore KVD was so good because he just makes so many more casts than say a trig setup.. But it does matter in pitch/ flip too! For tournament fisherman to be sure!

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

In about 1988 shimano had a 2 speed low profile freshwater baitcast reel... Back then I believe it was a bantam magnumlite ... Can't recall gear ratios... Magnetic braking... I nearly bought it but didn't ... To say the least,it was interesting !

Tom.. Do you recall this reel? Does anyone? Lol...

Piece of junk these 2speed reels were. If Shimano had hung their hat on those things the competitive landscape would look much different today I can tell ya that. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Tom, I have a question.... in my lews reels a 6.4:1 is labeled 28IPT and a 7.1:1 is labeled 31 IPT.... shimano 7.1 is 27-28 IPT

 

is it really needed to go all the way to an 8.1:1 to get an extra two inches IPT? or is it just marketing a cool sounding number?

 

I have always wondered this.

(never measured my lews or shimanos so I dont know which side the hype would fall if there is indeed hype to have)

Unless the IPT is noticeably  different, ratio is pure hype, similar to bearing count. The diameter of the spool determines the max amount of line that can be taken in on a single rotation. The handle turns the crank which drives the main gear. The main gear drives the pinion which in turn rotates the spool. Either a Larger main gear or smaller pinion increases the ratio. IPT increases if the spool diameter remains unchanged. A longer handle gives a little more leverage for cranking. This probably gives the feeling of more power. Increasing the diameter of both the pinion and main gear combined with better machining of gears makes them feel stronger too. I don't think newer reels necessarily put out more measurable power or torque though. The rod should be what moves the fish anyway. All a reel needs to do is hold the line and allow casting.

[dave]

I would have sworn at first glance the title said reevaluating high HEELs.  How disappointed I was.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

 If you have to reevaluate that, the Mrs. is probably right. You spend too much time here. 

[0119]

I had the shimano two speed reel and thought highly of it. Never had trouble with it, the beastmaster or the I think it was speedmaster. Great light little reels, graphite spools never were a problem either. Caught tons of tarpon and reds with out a hitch.

[WRB]

The reason I hook set or more accurately initiate the hook set by reeling the line tight quickly is the fact you can't move enough line at 90+ feet away from the boat using the rod without the line being tightened first.

A rod might be able to move 3 to 5 feet of line at 90+ feet! it the rod tip is down near the water surface and you whip back over head. I can recover 7 to 9 feet of line faster by cranking the reel handle 2 to 3 times, catch up with the bass if it has swam towards me and then use the rod to complete the hook set.

The reel is more than a line holder, it's a line management system.

Been using this hook set over 30 years, in fact first wrote an article about this in 1986.

Faster line recovery helps making this type of hook set and the primary reason I gave the 8.1:1 a try out.

I don't fish any faster than before, it's not my style, more of a saturation presentation when casting jigs and soft plastics.

I still use my round reels for swimbaits and big deep diving crankbaits, it's good to know the R-100XS can be used if I want.

Tom

[00 mod]

I have said this before, and it is still my belief:

 

For techniques you use the rod to move the bait( jigs, t-rigs, walking baits, poppers etc) use the most IPT reel you can get(or like)

 

For techniques where you use the reel to move the bait, you must reevaluate the IPT. 

 

Therefore, I use all high IPT reels except for cranks, swimbaits, swimjigs, buzzbaits, spinnerbaits etc.

 

Jeff

[primetime]

I started using your hookset sweep technnique when you suggested it in order to fix my poor hook up ratio when fishing soft swimbaits with a ton of line out. I am buying everything you are selling as I noticed a difference several weeks ago when I used a different reel that was a burner 7/1 compared to a 5/1 I was using and I now like a faster reel  for anything oher than Flipping or Pitching, and I just concentrate on slowing down so the bait is not riding on plane when working a hollow belly in heavy weeds since they like to miss it or bump it as it is......

 

Love the Gambler EZ swimbaits, Money Minnows, and all the nice looking soft swimbaits hitting the market. It is such a nice break from Flipping all day, and I get bored of cranking after a few minutes unless the fish are active. I can do alot more with a softbait here in Florida.

[SirSnookalot]

I tried the Gambler EZ, the larger version yesterday, may have just been an off day.  Had a few short strikes and caught 1 fish, wasn't real impressed but I'm not ready to condemn it yet.  I was using an ewg hook, I think it may work better with a keel weighted hook.  I'm going out to give it another shot now, don't know if I have any keel hooks, if I do I'm changing.