What Is Wrong With Me And Fluro?

[coots]

I just switched to flurocarbon last year since I really started trying to get better at fishing. We joined a bass club and started taking it more seriously. I read  a lot on here, did a lot of research for which is the best for your money etc. I honestly don't know what I am doing wrong here. I thought I solved one of my problems at the end of last year by reading that I should stop tying the Polymar knot and use a knot like Grigsby's no-name knot... or the San Diego jam knot.

 

My line isn't breaking at the knot.. it is breaking in the middle of the line. Now I'll be the first to admit that I have a "professional overrun" from time to time. But I mean... I don't think this shoudl be happening at the rate at which it does. The line breaking that is.. 

 

I've tried several different ones so far and Seaguar AbrazX seems to be one of the worst ones. This past Saturday I fished with Sunline Sniper and it broke off in the middle of my cast and I got to ticked off to try it again.. I just left the rod untied for the rest of the day. 

 

I'm at a loss... I love the sensitivity of Fluro, but I think I may just have to go back to Mono. That or learn how to tie a leader really well. I have a hard enough time trying to tie the San Diego jam or something now due to my limited sight... I can't imagine trying to tie a leader. 

 

Any thoughts? 

[MarkH024]

Check your rod guides with a nylon sock or a cotton ball. If you get any hang up, that's probably your issue and something is putting a knick in the line.  The slightest kink in fluoro on that overrun can create a weak spot as well. High friction/heat will create a weak spot but if it's not breaking at the knot, then your knots are probably fine and like you I tie a San Diego Jam with any fluoro I use.  Use KVD LL to make that fluoro nice and supple, that should alleviate a lot of the overrun problems.

 

You could be creating weak spots when spooling up as well. I'm not sure what your method is but it's not to be overlooked either.

 

When you're not using the rod and your line is strung up on it for storage, put a rod sock or sleeve to protect it as well. Any hook or sharp edge that grazes your line could be putting a slight knick into it.

[coots]

Knew I would forget something in my original post. I have checked my guides and everything looks and seems ok to me. I even had dad look at them with me to make sure. I've thought it may be the overrun, but I mean, at what point am I willing to have to deal with the hassle of going all the way down to the "knick" when / if that happens, just to be able to fish this stuff?

 

I will try some of your other ideas as well. Thanks for the response. 

[DBL000006]

On 2/10/2014 at 1:36 PM, coots said:

I just switched to flurocarbon last year since I really started trying to get better at fishing. We joined a bass club and started taking it more seriously. I read  a lot on here, did a lot of research for which is the best for your money etc. I honestly don't know what I am doing wrong here. I thought I solved one of my problems at the end of last year by reading that I should stop tying the Polymar knot and use a knot like Grigsby's no-name knot... or the San Diego jam knot.

 

My line isn't breaking at the knot.. it is breaking in the middle of the line. Now I'll be the first to admit that I have a "professional overrun" from time to time. But I mean... I don't think this shoudl be happening at the rate at which it does. The line breaking that is.. 

 

I've tried several different ones so far and Seaguar AbrazX seems to be one of the worst ones. This past Saturday I fished with Sunline Sniper and it broke off in the middle of my cast and I got to ticked off to try it again.. I just left the rod untied for the rest of the day. 

 

I'm at a loss... I love the sensitivity of Fluro, but I think I may just have to go back to Mono. That or learn how to tie a leader really well. I have a hard enough time trying to tie the San Diego jam or something now due to my limited sight... I can't imagine trying to tie a leader. 

 

Any thoughts? 

Try High Seas Fluro Line. They have 2 different models of Fluro type line.  I have High seas spooled and it's a great product. Another thing about Fluro line is, you need to check it after a few casts. Your line could be damaged and you wouldn't know. That's the weakness of Fluro line. It will get damaged

[Jar11591]

Fluorocarbon doesn't have anywhere near the elasticity that mono does. Is it possible you're using to much power? When is it breaking, on the hook set? And I know its not the knot that's the issue but I always use a clinch knot and never/rarely have break offs.

[F14A-B]

My opinion.... I don't depend on it.. More trouble than benefit . Are you buying it? Expensive ! I just have a little left and when it's gone.. I will not buy it again.. Company's want to give it fisherman... That's the game.. And that is way different. For me I decided long ago that it was time to get back to basics for just fun fishing! My line choices are solid and reliable and that's it.

Good luck !

Spence

[mac_hine]

I use and recommend Seagaur InvisX and use a palomar knot and it works fantastic for me. I dont care for the Seagaur AbrasX. Even though its called AbrasX, I dont think its very abrasion resistant at all.

[dam0007]

Check out the edges on the spool and guide on reel for nicks. That really shouldn't be happening. I fish flouro almost exclusively and never have that issue.

[wnybassman]

Is the line actually breaking during one of these "professional overruns"?    What pound test are you using?   Thinner diameter?   Heavier baits?    I have a similar issue with one certain braid in 30 pound test that I fish crankbaits with, but it really only occurs when I get over anxious and starting casting way harder than I should be instead of just letting the rod do the work like I should.   When I do this the reel backlashes just enough to stop the spool dead and the line will just break somewhere along the way at the weakest point.     Once I relax and let the rod do the work, I have no issues.......well............line issues anyway.     lol

[smalljaw67]

If you are getting overruns, aka backlashes, look for kinks, fluorocarbon gets weak very easily which is why a palomar knot ends up breaking. If you tie a palomar knot slowly and carefully it is the best knot to use with fluorocarbon in my opinion but the other properties it has makes me hate it to the point I don't use it anymore. I stick with braid and a good copolymer monofilament,

[Dwight Hottle]

Fluro doesn't have the shock strength of regular mono. When you get a backlash the pressure at the point of the backlash weakens the line because of the sudden snap. Heavier line would help solve the problem but not completely. You need to quit backlashing or change line to something with more stretch or inherent give. 

[MikeinFresno]

maybe beaking the line due to having slack and snapping it on the  hook sets. Reel down n take slack out before setting the hook.

[Smokinal]

It's all of these things combined that makes me love, and stay with, a braid/fluoro leader setup on every one of my rods. I, too, thought I was missing something here when I just could not use straight fluoro. I have tried at least 8 different brands including Seaguar, Sunline etc... My thought is, if you have to go through so much song and dance (special way to spool it, KVD LL, special hook set etc), why use it.

Super Slick and any brand of fluoro for a leader and I whack em! Put them together with a blood knot for standard guides; use an Albright for micro guides...found here:

http://www.animatedknots.com/knotlist.php?Categ=home&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

[Glenn]

What types of techniques and cover/structure are you using the line for?  As some have mentioned, it is easier to nick up. So if you're using it in heavy cover or pulling it through rocks and stumps, that may be the issue.

 

For example, I throw spinnerbaits into heavy cover, through branches and weeds, and most stuff people only flip.  I tried using fluoro for that, and quickly switched after losing 2 spinnerbaits in 2 days due to breakoffs during the cast.  None of those were knot failures.

 

Fluoro, like other types of lines, has a place and purpose; but it's not all-purpose.

[KDW96]

I quit using straight flouro. Just too many hoops to jump through,when im tryin to fish? Last year i used a braid to flouro leader with great results, but i was using Seaguar Blue Label leader material. There is a very big difference between leader/ and regular flouro. You get less of leader per spool,but well worth it.

[coots]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. It is all very insightful and gives me at least something to try to hang my hat on. 

 

At this point, I think I am just going to have to either try to go straight braid when I can, try to find a braind to fluro leader knot that I can tie with limited vision or go back and try a really nice mono. 

 

I love these forums, it's a great venue to talk this stuff out with a lot of great people. Again, all the advice is appreciated. 

[coots]

And just to answer a few of the questions that was in the thread.

 

I've used the Seaguar AbrazX 15lb test

Sunline Sniper, I think it was the 14lb or 16lb, I'll have to check the boat next time I'm at it.

Invisix, can't remember the test on it, but I always fish 14-16lb

 

I fish multiple scenarios during a fishing trip... we fish a lot of banks.. a lot of submerged grass.... rocks, stumps etc. 

 

I imagine it's getting nicked somewhere... and it's probably my fault. I can live with it being my fault or doing something wrong... but at some point I've just got to ask myself is it worth it. 

[Darren.]

Coots, I'm in the "I use fluoro" group, but I've only been so over the past year. And I *only* use it as a leader -- but only some of the time. Predominately, I use either P-Line Floroclear (fluorocarbon-coated copoly line), or Yo-Zuri Hybrid (fluorocarbon-bonded copoly).

 

Those two lines, are by far, more versatile than pure fluoro -- in my experience. And my PB, and many many big bass have come off those lines. FWIW, I also am a soft-plastics fisherman, so my presentations are much slower, in the fishes "face" longer than a crank bait, as it were.

 

Only saying this to plant the thought that fluoro is not the everything line some make it out to be. But like Glenn said, it has its place. I will tie it on when I have a feeling the conditions require it.

 

If I happen to hit a snag and puuuuullll to try and free the hook, I need to retie the fluoro leader. I don't always do that, and several times I've regretted not doing it. So my personal experience with fluoro is both positive and negative.

[geo g]

I personally I love Floro for the sensitivity and the clarity in water it provides.  I only use it for worms, flukes, senkos, and other plastics.  Because of South Florida's thick vegetation, I only use at least 15 pound test.  Not all floro's are the same.  Berkley 100% floro professional grade, is the only stuff I use, and I have tried a bunch of others.  I use a Palomar knot  and have no problems at all, I do wet it and pull tight slowly.  I also spray the line often and it does help.  I think it might get stiffer in real cold weather, we don't have that problem often.  If you get a backlash don't get aggressive forcing the line, you will damage it.  I believe floro helps my worm fishing, and I have confidence in it.  I use it almost everyday.  Good luck, expensive but great stuff.

[WRB]

2 suggestions; 1. learn to feel your line as you retrieve it and 2. Use Tangle Free line conditioner.

FC line is water proof, doesn't absorb any water and dries out so it should be lubricated often.

Must anglers today using baitcasting reels palm the reel and don't bothern running the line over the tip of the index finger and under the tip of the thumb during the retrieve. If you learn to do this you will feel any line anomaly and increase your strike detection.

You may be damaging the line pulling out a backlash and creating a flat spot in the line that severely weakens it. Learn to control the spooled line with your thumb during casting by not letting the line spring off the spool, preventing a backlash. If you get a backlash avoid pulling on the line loops, instead first put your thumb on the spooled line and wind the cast back onto the reel with your thumb applying pressure. After the line is back on the reel, slowly pull off line while keeping thumb pressure, put the pulled off line back onto the water. The backlash area should pull out without needing to pull out tangled loops or damaging your line.

Good luck.

Tom

[retiredbosn]

Floro has a crystalline structure, any over run causes it to flatten and sometimes kink. The area where the line does that should be considered as a cut, as the line's structure on the inside has been severed. Although several advances have been made floro is still a brittle product when compared with mono. Think of it more like a solid wire than pliable line. What's happening is the line structure is compromised when an over run occurs, couple of casts later and it snaps. Solution is remove all the line involved in the over-run, or switch to acopolymer like Hybrid or go back to mono. FWIW floro is what Teflon is made of.

[coots]

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

So what do you guys think for a knot for Braid to Fluro? I'm thinking I may give the Albright knot a go. I think if I can tie the San Diego Jam knot.. I should be able to pull the albright off. 

[A-Jay]

Coots there are almost as may knots one could use as there are lines.  Tie some up, develop a trust and go with it.  I use a uni to uni knot.

 

However my prime distain with fluorocarbon lines stems from the "limited stretch" property.   

This is looked at by most as an advantage but to me it's a hidden problem which makes it a huge disadvantage.  This limited stretch will only happen a finite number of times before it will part.  Unfortunately there is nothing to indicate when that will be.  Could be on a snag you've pulled quite hard to free.  Could happen after fighting a couple of big fish if your drag is locked down.  What an angler must be acutely aware of is  that this happens over the entire length of the line that is experiencing the strain, not just the last few feet or just at the knots.  Monofilament line stretches like crazy, but will for the most part retain the majority of it's strength and be ready to do it again and again. Clearly braid doesn't stretch at all but it's so strong I'd break a rod before the line parts.

 

It took me a while to figure this out.  Many very experienced anglers have a different perspective on the qualities of the line and I respect that.  However my perspective is my reality.  After enduring too many problems using fluorocarbon both as a main line and especially as a leader, now every time my angling needs require something instead of braid or as a complement to it, I use Mono. 

I'm catching more fish, wasting less time screwing around with my gear and I'm saving $$$

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

A-Jay

[Darren.]

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

So what do you guys think for a knot for Braid to Fluro? I'm thinking I may give the Albright knot a go. I think if I can tie the San Diego Jam knot.. I should be able to pull the albright off.

Uni-to-uni, Albright (and variants) are my favorites. They are the easiest, IMO, and with practice, you will become proficient and confident in your ties.

I usually use more wraps, the thinner the leader, as well.

[gallowaypt]

The uni to uni knot is very easy to tie and what I use for tying leaders to braid.