Stlbob Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 I guess for the record people can tell themselves whatever it takes for them to feel its okay..Or to justify what i call cheating,plain and simple.Im an old country boy,and i call a spade a spade.Having people like what i say isnt important to me as many times the truth can make you not very popular.. If the bass isnt caught in its native enviroment,which is in this country.They are not provided meals of 2 lb trout,and on and on its not the real deal. But hey i guess honor means very little when your chasing a record.
shimmy Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I guess for the record people can tell themselves whatever it takes for them to feel its okay..Or to justify what i call cheating,plain and simple.Im an old country boy,and i call a spade a spade.Having people like what i say isnt important to me as many times the truth can make you not very popular.. If the bass isnt caught in its native enviroment,which is in this country.They are not provided meals of 2 lb trout,and on and on its not the real deal. But hey i guess honor means very little when your chasing a record. you realize that it is not realistic what you are saying. Nothing is really native anymore. I guess everyone on this board who chases big bass or potential records have no "honor."
Stlbob Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 you are providing a perfect example about what im saying. So there are 'NO' native bass BS..Ok the bass in Japan,and whatever country they were introduced to are sure as heck are not natural habitat of those fish.ie they dont belong there. The F1 hybrid bass is around becuse we bred it.Come on its an easy concept..IF no outside meddling is involved and the bass would be there wheter we were involoved or not and we have not bred them,modified them,transplanted them thats a bass in it natural habitat.If human intervention were removed and the bass would still be there than thats natural habitat. i dont understand the confusion,seems a pretty simple concept to grasp.
Super User flyfisher Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 I guess for the record people can tell themselves whatever it takes for them to feel its okay..Or to justify what i call cheating,plain and simple.Im an old country boy,and i call a spade a spade.Having people like what i say isnt important to me as many times the truth can make you not very popular.. If the bass isnt caught in its native enviroment,which is in this country.They are not provided meals of 2 lb trout,and on and on its not the real deal. But hey i guess honor means very little when your chasing a record. Cheating is adding weights to a bass or literally hand feeding a fish in a private pond and "catching"it. And native environment isn't this country it is a few very specific drainages of which i am pretty sure most of us are not privy to fishing. Adding in forage fish to a lake is common practice and is what is needed in some instances to keep a fishery going, not to mention you still have to catch the fish. If it was as easy as you make it out to be, don't you think the record would have been broken already and multiple times? the answer is it hasn't been broken as of yet even with the "dishonorable" tactics you claim to exist. You also have to remember that trout stocking isn't an every day thing, it is not frequent and the only info i could find is that it happen maybe once a year now as it was originally done to help to build a healthy population in new lakes. Also, do lakes that are man made or because of dams put in rivers get discounted? I get the gist of what you are saying but to say that it should only come from america is silly. I mean i believe the snakehead world record was just caught here and that is not a native fish.
Super User flyfisher Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 you are providing a perfect example about what im saying. So there are 'NO' native bass BS..Ok the bass in Japan,and whatever country they were introduced to are sure as heck are not natural habitat of those fish.ie they dont belong there. The F1 hybrid bass is around becuse we bred it.Come on its an easy concept..IF no outside meddling is involved and the bass would be there wheter we were involoved or not and we have not bred them,modified them,transplanted them thats a bass in it natural habitat.If human intervention were removed and the bass would still be there than thats natural habitat. i dont understand the confusion,seems a pretty simple concept to grasp. unfortunately there is no time machine to take you back to a time where the situation you list is possible. I am happy with a wild fish(stocked but self sustaining) or a native fish myself.
Stlbob Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 then that snakehead as far as i am concerned is not legit.If man had a hand in it then its not natural,by nature,etc.If WE (we being meddling humans) caused whatever record breaking fish,deer , hogzilla whatever pick one then its not legit.We build these creatures not to taste better,swim faster,live longer.....nooooooo we meddle to always make them bigger to break records we (again meddling humans) hold so dear. so we corrupt mother nature for only our own self satisfaction..Tell me im wrong. You know im am hitting the nail on the head
Mainebass1984 Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 A native fish in its unaltered environment untouched by man ? Does such a place exist ?
Stlbob Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 no time machine needed there are hundreds of thousands of places to fish untouched by breeding programs. Again catching the record bass in Japan would be a record devoid of honor,with only the goal of breaking a record made much easier by the hand of man..Maybe i do need a time machine,i see people cheat and steal everyday and they are okay with it. People cheat on their taxs,spouses,jobs,etc,etc. And it seems thats not a big deal becasue everyone does it.So raised with this moral standard i can see how someone would feel catching the record by whatever means are needed is acceptable.I for one dont feel that way.If the hand of man is involved its not legit. just my .02
Super User flyfisher Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 so is the only way to catch a record bass is to swim and catch it with your bare hands? and what about boats, should they all be hand made or can you only fish from the bank? And if it is so much easier because of man's intervention then why hasn't it happened? how can man not be involved if he is the one catching the fish? People have been altering nature for a long long time. Native americans would dam up streams to access better fishing and up their chances, they would also run buffalo into areas where they would be cornered so they could hunt them more easily. We could also look at farming and mining and cutting down logs to build houses etc... Bottom line is the world you think existed never really did, as we are all part of this world and should to our best to keep it as pristine as ever but managing a fishery is not a bad thing and believe it or not, everything isn't done to try and beat a record but rather provide an activity that gets people outside and enjoying the nature that is there. What areas can you fish that are untouched as you mention? Equating cheating and stealing with catching a stocked or non-native fish seems like a biiiig stretch to me. If you are so opposed to it then i question how do you fish and where because i would like to know where these untouched fish are that weren't under man's intervention because it would still be cheating or stealing even if it isn't the record, right? 2
Super User SirSnookalot Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 If a person catches the largest fish of any species in accordance with the IGFA, it's world's record, I don't see anything simpler than that. There was no cheating done to catch the fish. 7
Smokinal Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 ...“As long as people are still having unprotected sex with many anonymous partners, whilst at the same time experimenting with mind-expanding drugs in a consequence-free environment, I'll be sound as a pound.”
Super User flyfisher Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 ...“As long as people are still having unprotected sex with many anonymous partners, whilst at the same time experimenting with mind-expanding drugs in a consequence-free environment, I'll be sound as a pound.” And the derailment post of the year goes to........^^^^ lol Just messing with you
Stlbob Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 i dont and have not ever fished for records.If by pure chance i caught something someday and i knew it had been,or it was a hybrid,or any the things outlined i would even give a seconds thought it would just go back in the water...period... I didnt say not to fish where they are,i said that record fish introduced by man,bred by man,altered by man should not be open to the record books. When the big bass was caught in 32' i know for a fact it wasnt a hybrid,or introduced,or feed by or altered in any way by our presense.Yes i am a bit of a purrist. I mean no disrespect to anyone.You feel your way and tell yourselves whatever story makes up for any of the shortcomings of having someone 'MAKE' the next record bass. Your ok with it ,im not.Thats what makes this country what it is. so again just my .02 no harm meant no one loves an intellegent discussion more than me.
Super User flyfisher Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 i dont and have not ever fished for records.If by pure chance i caught something someday and i knew it had been,or it was a hybrid,or any the things outlined i would even give a seconds thought it would just go back in the water...period... I didnt say not to fish where they are,i said that record fish introduced by man,bred by man,altered by man should not be open to the record books. When the big bass was caught in 32' i know for a fact it wasnt a hybrid,or introduced,or feed by or altered in any way by our presense.Yes i am a bit of a purrist. I mean no disrespect to anyone.You feel your way and tell yourselves whatever story makes up for any of the shortcomings of having someone 'MAKE' the next record bass. Your ok with it ,im not.Thats what makes this country what it is. so again just my .02 no harm meant no one loves an intellegent discussion more than me. How do you know that the bass wasn't altered in any way? The record has more controversy around it than most other records really and some even question if it was a LM bass. I see your point about having purity but i don't see the equation to cheating and stealing that was made. Is a self sustaining population of bass that came from originally being stocked also not adequate? I would think that after a few generations that any intervention by man is out the window really. The bottom line is still no matter what is done to help a bass grow by making sure the lake is fertile and has forage, the bass still needs to eat, grow large, avoid predators, have good genes and then get caught, which is the hardest part since the florida strain bass are notoriously difficult to catch as they get larger and older.
Super User iabass8 Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 I didnt say not to fish where they are,i said that record fish introduced by man,bred by man,altered by man should not be open to the record books. When the big bass was caught in 32' i know for a fact it wasnt a hybrid,or introduced,or feed by or altered in any way by our presense.Yes i am a bit of a purrist. No, you don't and that's a very silly, naive statement. The fish was allegedly caught in an oxbow in GA. Perry was a farmer during part of the depression. Fishing for food had become almost a way of life to some of the unfortunate people hit by the depression. How are you so certain that people in the area didn't take non native fish or some farm pond bred bluegill, catfish or bass and "diddy pole" areas of the water for fish? This fish was so large that it could easily be conceivable these large fish were fed farm raised bait. You(and along with everybody else unless you were on the water in GA at this time) have ZERO evidence of weather or not this happened. So, by your standards, every record fish caught could conceivably be caught "cheating". If that's the case, stop fishing.
shimmy Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Using the same logic, i am assuming you do not watch the olympics or cheer for America when they win a gold medal or set a world record since we are all immigrants. You are taking an extreme side and trying to call it "logic". I agree that if the breeding was taken to a complete new level, records would get hazy, but you are talking as if breeding has taken a completely new genetic mutation of craziness already. Regardless of where fish are transferred, it is the climate and forage that determines what makes a giant bass. Perry's fish may not have been 22 pounds anyways.
Super User WRB Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 The Goerge Perry world record LMB was established over 20 years after it was caught. The bass was reported to be caught July 1932, the IGFA formed in 1953. there isn't any hard evidence what the size was. Perry filled out a Field & Stream application for the magazines big bass contest that was an annual event, sent a picture that has never been found. Magazine fishing contest offered lures as a prize and during the Great Depression a free lure was sought after. George Perry never self promoted this catch, in fact he avoided interviews. There is so much that doesn't add up with the Perry bass, however we accept it, based on Perry's word. The Kurita bass is without doubt the world record bass. If you go down the road that transplanted bass are not real basss, then the Perry falls into this category, no native pure FLMB north of Ocala. Tom 2
Bassfishing375 Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Yes I do believe a bigger one will be caught. Way back when, if you caught a fish you killed it. With catch and release big fish are being put back daily to be caught again. As for the California big fish, they are being feed stocked trout every year and the bass love them. This certainly leads to the super growth, in California's catch and release lakes. I have no idea what going on in Japan, but there are some monster bass. I'm sure a new worlds record is sitting around just waiting for something with a hook to swim bye. I'm pretty sure that it is illegal to release bass in Japan, because they are invasive
Super User flyfisher Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 I'm pretty sure that it is illegal to release bass in Japan, because they are invasive I read that same thing and it is apparently a pretty hefty fine if you get caught accidentally letting one go.
Stlbob Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 to me your all immagrents my grandma was full blood lokata Sioux..But i must say i feel your angry becuase i pose an opinon different than your own..dont be..Its just how ' I ' feel.. listen maybe its years of having take the high road pounded in my head..i dont know..if the whole 'cheating' was a bit too much i apologize.. Again just my thoughts on the matter.. the whole not cheering for America becuase i dont feel exported Bass should qualify is as an insulting thing that has ever been said..Thats Waaaay out in left field..I served, my son and son in law serve now.they have 3 tours in the sand box between them so very few care more about this country than i do and my family . So because i think a certain way about what Bass should qualify and my duty and love of my country is questioned that was out of line and really makes me angry. I have not insulted anyone,time and again i said no insult was intended.there was no point to that statement other to insult me...and to demean..i have a reason i feel the way i do.Because this was not to voice a point but to just be flippin ignorant.
Stlbob Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 okay a lot of misplaced anger here. let say this and im done. ' I ' I being me do not feel exported,imported,hybrids made by man,anything with a food source we control makes ' me ' feel like the deck is stacked in a way that wasnt out there when the first record bass was caught. Yes we can ' what if ' it to death even concerning the bass from 32'..I feel that way..if you dont so be it.DONT be insulting i dont need or want that. I feel strongly about it but again i am a voice of one and its clear most here are fine with it..so be it..i will always stand up for what i feel is right even if im the only one standing.. It obvious i wont change anyones mind and you wont change mine..BUT never ever question my love of this country, this is after all just a conversation about Bass.A fish we chase around with brightly colored lures and plastic worms..not a game changer guys just a fish after all.
Super User WRB Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 Just a footnote on California FLMB. Lake Hodges in San Diego produced a ceritfied 20.4 lb LMB, there are NO trout in Hodges only bluegill, crappie, threadfin shad, crawdads and channel catfish. Ideal environment, long growing seasons, no commercial fishing, lower fishing pressure; Hodges is only open 3 days a week like the other SD area lakes. If CA produces a new world record bass the lake may be San Vincente, it's been closed several years due to the dam being raised 117' higher creating a new bigger lake. San V has produced several 18-19 lb bass in the past. Tom 1
Super User flyfisher Posted February 15, 2014 Super User Posted February 15, 2014 to me your all immagrents my grandma was full blood lokata Sioux..But i must say i feel your angry becuase i pose an opinon different than your own..dont be..Its just how ' I ' feel.. listen maybe its years of having take the high road pounded in my head..i dont know..if the whole 'cheating' was a bit too much i apologize.. Again just my thoughts on the matter.. the whole not cheering for America becuase i dont feel exported Bass should qualify is as an insulting thing that has ever been said..Thats Waaaay out in left field..I served, my son and son in law serve now.they have 3 tours in the sand box between them so very few care more about this country than i do and my family . So because i think a certain way about what Bass should qualify and my duty and love of my country is questioned that was out of line and really makes me angry. I have not insulted anyone,time and again i said no insult was intended.there was no point to that statement other to insult me...and to demean..i have a reason i feel the way i do.Because this was not to voice a point but to just be flippin ignorant. Nobody is angry with you, just trying to figure it all out. Your grandma being full-blooded sioux means unless you have full blooded sioux or other native americans as the other pieces to the genetic puzzle you are at most what 1/8th sioux so as much an immigrant as the next guy. Nobody is questioning your alliance to the country at least i am not as i have rad your posts and see where you fall. It was merely an analogy to a record being broken by an american who is not native to here is no different than catching a bass that is not native to the place it was caught either. I enjoy our debates so don't take it the wrong way because i know i didn't take it the wrong way when you equated catching a world record to cheating and stealing because i would love to catch a world record of any type. I do think this thread has reached the point of agree to disagree though
Stlbob Posted February 16, 2014 Author Posted February 16, 2014 no my grandfather on dads side was 1/2 sioux half irish...yeah i dont drink..when i was younger it never turned out well.I did the dna swab a cple of years ago and they sent me a stack of stuff i could apply for because i was native enough..dont me get going on that.. yeah some things were being said that were becoming very close to personal insults..so i wanted to bring it down a notch or two..and no you didnt say it.. BUT yes we shall politely agree to disagree...i think im getting cabin fever..it decided to turn this town into a glazed donut today more freezing rain.I need to stop piddling with tackle and go fishing. 1
Super User Hooligan Posted February 16, 2014 Super User Posted February 16, 2014 tell me about Dottie.. The bass in Japan and africa they arent LM like we have here are they..? the werent indiginous to that country. Someone transplanted them,right..? As far as that goes again its not in its natural envirorment again not apples to apples. Uhh, what? Any fish that isn't a Northern Strain is outside its native environment. So, that rules out CA, TX, LA, and pretty much anywhere they grow big. That's an ill formed argument at best. Apples to apples is genetics to genetics. Environmental factors are going to both affect, and effect, those fish in the same way. The environs they inhabit in any situation is extremely similar. They are not growth limited by environment. They're growth limited by genetics. That's it, plain and simple, there's no arguing otherwise. I tend, also, not to think Dottie was the biggest ever. There is anecdotal evidence of CA anglers and TX anglers seeing legit 20lb fish that were dwarfed by other large females in a pack. I also don't believe that we will ever see a 25lb fish in captivity for any length of time- at least not one that was wild, then captive. I firmly believe that there is a 25+ out there. Very likely more than one. It's all a game of chance.
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