Do You Think Anyone Will Ever Catch ' The ' Bass,you Know The 24Lb Monster

[greyleg33]

I wouldn't overlook Texas, either. DNR there actively promotes big bass.

[Raul]

tell me about Dottie..

The bass in Japan and africa they arent LM like we have here are they..? the werent indiginous to that country. Someone transplanted them,right..? As far as that goes again its not in its natural envirorment again not apples to apples.

 

My man, for the better part of the US lmb bass are non native species, "northern strain" isn´t that northern and it´s original range is southern US and northern Mexico, in the case of Florida strain they are even more non native than northern strain.

[RoLo]

Hmm...

 

For some reason I can't find the record on an official State Of Florida

website. I did find another site with the state record at 17-4.

 

Yeah, that's why I put single quotes around 'documented'.    

 

>> 'FWC Certified' State Record:  17 lb 4 oz

>> 'Documented' State Record:    20 lb 2 oz

 

Many 'documented' Florida records were never 'certified' by the FWC (Florida Wildlife Commission) or its predecessor the GFC. 

Any minor infraction disallows FWC certification such as improperly witnessed, scales not re-certified within 6 months,

not identified by a state biologist & so on.

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Because of the state's stringent protocol (bureaucracy), Florida state record fish can be highly misleading. 

For example, the Florida record Chain Pickerel was about 4-1/2 lb for years-&-years, then suddenly it catapulted to 6 lb 15 oz (go figure) 

The lake record on Lake Okeechobee was 13-1/2 lb for year-&-years, lower than several state records to the north.

Then suddenly the Okeechobee Lake record jumped to 17-lb 3-oz, just 1 oz below the 'certified' state record (what's up with that?).

 

Listed below are 14 'documented' bass records in Florida that were never 'certified' by the GFC or FWC, 

It's interesting to note that some of the documented records were certified by the International Game Fish Association (IGFA),

the National Fresh Water Fishing Hall of Fame (NFWFHF) or Bassmaster (BASS). 

 

 

20-2

31" x 27"

Big Fish Lake (pasco co)

5/19/1923

Fritz Friebel - Won 1923 Field & Stream Contest - Never state certified

19-15

 

Keystone Lake (Hillsborough co)

1927

R.E. Lucas - Won 1927 Field & Stream Contest - Never state certified 

19-4

 

Taylor Creek Reservoir (orange co)

6/30/1974

Phil Jay - Private lease-only lake - Documented by ISFA & FWFHOF

19-0

L: 31"

Lake Tarpon (pinellas co)

6/26/1961

W.A. Riley Witt - Won 1961 Field & Stream Contest

18-13

29.5" x 26.5"

St Johns River (green cove springs)

4/12/1987

Buddy Wright - Documented but never state certified

18-4

 

St Johns River (green cove springs)

12/16/1948

J.W. Smith - Won 1948 Field & Stream Contest

18-2

 

Taylor Creek Reservoir (orange co)

6/25/1974

Phil Jay - Private lease-only lake - Phil documented 2 bass over 18 lb in 5 days

18-2

 

Lake Brooklyn (clay co)

3/12/1966

Hugh Paul - Won 1966 Field & Stream Contest

18-0

30" x 25"

Tucker Lake (franklin co)

Aug 1964

Lonnie Petty - Won 1964 Field & Stream Contest

18-0

 

Ashley Lake (putnam co)

3/25/1951

Carl Swisher - Won 1951 Field & Stream Contest

17-15

 

Unnamed lake

Mar 1988

Donald Brunson - Documented

17-12

 

West Tohopekaliga (osceola co)

7/11/1986

John Faircloth - Documented

17-8

28" x 25"

Lake Rose (orange co)

2/17/1985

Mike Paul - Documented

17-8

28" x 25"

Hurricane Lake (okaloosa co)

3/19/1983

Robert Dunsford - Documented

         

 

Roger

[RoLo]

Kent, I meant to include the URL but I'm sure you already found it: http://www.bassmaster.com/node/101735

 

Roger

[WRB]

Rolo, the Zimmerlee bass, according to knowledgeable witnesses, was floating on the surface and Dave Zimmerlee rented a boat and retrieved it claiming to catch it using a kids Zebco combo rod/reel.

Miramar was the site where the first transplants were held in rearing ponds before moving the adults size bass to Upper Otay lake, then they were distributed into public San Diego city lakes like Lower Otay, San Vincente, Hodges, El Capitan, Sutherland, etc. Miramar dam was completed and the ponds flooding releasing the remaining transplants into Miramar lake.

The Casitas and Castaic FLMB came from the Upper Otay stock.

The CA official LMB record is 21 lbs 15 oz from lake Castaic, Mike Arujo, the documented record is 22.10 lbs. also from Castaic, Bob Crupi. Dottie ranks 3 rd @ 21 lbs 13 oz, Dickerson and never documented or officially weight when cuaght the final time, the anglers claimed she weighed 25.1 lbs on their scale before being released.

The Florida record back in '86 when I did some research for a article was 20 lbs 2 oz from lake Tarpon, not familiar with Eloise but will take your word on that.

I also agree with Catt when he states a lot of giant bass ended up as meals and several never get reported. Having spent the past 50 years chasing the WR bass, I hope someone somewhere catches a new record.

CA is in a 10 year drought with a few years to go before things change. Low lake levels make for poor spawn survival and prey sources for young bass. Planted trout stopped in SoCal about 6 years ago. The bottom line is poor conditions for giant bass populations in CA, this is the reason why I am not optimistic that a 20+ LMB is in our near future.

Tom

[Basswhippa]

,Having spent the past 50 years chasing the WR bass, I hope someone somewhere catches a new record.
 

 

So have you ever seen or hung a world record?  Nothing like a good fish story, especially a true one from a man who is credible.

[South FLA]

How would you feel if a deer breeder used superior antler genetic deer,  raised captive bucks/does for 3 years, fed them high protein food, provided them with thousands of acres to live a free range life and then allowed hunters to hunt the area for said deer when they turned 4-5 years old and a world record was taken on the land?   I my opinion it would qualify for a world record on technical merit, but its not what was intended by nature. Its not any different than bass over the 21-22 lb mark being pursued for the sake of catching a weighty fish.  Nevertheless, its still tough to fish or hunt and the chances of catching or harvesting a record deer or bass in an "unnatural" environment is still stacked against the hunter or angler. 

[WRB]

It's a myth that CA bass are hand feed any trout. Orval Ball, the man who introduced FLMB into San Diego city lakes goal was to improve the catch rate of adult size bass. The catch rate goal failed, FLMB proved to be harder to catch then northern LMB introduced 50 years earlier.

The San Diego city lakes like Otay the water is too warm to plant trout, only San Vincente had trout plants in the winter months. Miramar wasn't planned to have FLMB and was a trout lake and benefited. at Dixon lake, unknown anglers transplanted bass.

Lakes Casitas, Castaic and Isabella requested FLMB transplants in the early 70's to create trophy bass lakes and it worked. Both Casitas and Castaic get trout plants 3 months during the winter, it's not a year around program and no hatchery trout have been planted for over 6 years now in SoCal. The bass catch the planted on their own. Northern CA started to plant F1, FLMB in the early 80's with mixed results. No FLMB have been planted in CA since the early 80's. Pure FLMB may not exist in CA today as they have integrated with the NLMB populations. Bass are planted one time into CA lakes, after the initial plant they are on there own to reproduce.

On a final note; the NLMB didn't feed on the trout plants, different genes. The FLMB are wired to feed on golden shiners and the trout filled that niche.

Tom

[bass1980]

You know what how about everyone just stop posting and let WBR/Tom have the stage. His post are clear cut the best

You have a lot of knowledge on giant bass. Keep them coming!

[Mattlures]

 A high fence hormone deer is completely different then a bass that grows huge on a lake open to the public for fishing. Any bass that reaches 20lbs in a public CA lake has seen more fisherman and lures then any bass anywhere else on earth. Dottie was only caught while spawning. That lake was beaten to death for years by guys trying to catch her and no one ever could until she spawned. I think a huge bass caught in CA is more of an accomplishment then one caught in FL. WAY more pressure. We don't use big golden shiners, trout or bluegill for bait. Most of our lakes are only open for 3 or 4 days out of the week and are closed at night. There is always another boat near by and usually more then just one. If you catch a big bass in CA you have done something! I am not taking anything away from big catches from FL, TX, JP ETC, They are accomplishments. My point is any record bass caught from a public CA lake is more then enough to qualify for a world record and the IGFA agrees.

[WRB]

Northern Largemouth Bass; lateral line scale count is 59-68, 15-16 scales below the lateral line.

Florida Largemouth Bass; lateral lne scales count is 69-72, 17-18 scales below the lateral line.

The scale count is your only visual method to identify the 2 different LMB strains.

NLMB native range was the Ohio and Mississippi River drainage. FLMB native range was Florida.

No bass are native west of the Rocky Mountains.

Tom

PS, lateral scales hole a nerve hole in each scale, 69+ = FLMB.

[WRB]

,Having spent the past 50 years chasing the WR bass, I hope someone somewhere catches a new record.

 

 

So have you ever seen or hung a world record?  Nothing like a good fish story, especially a true one from a man who is credible.

All bass anglers have fish stories of the big one getting away, I am no different.

I have lost 2 bass that were 20 + lbs, the 1st at Lower Otay, I didn't see that bass. The bass ran under a anchored boat and around the anchor rope. Ron Huggit was fishing crawdads from his boat and tried to net this bass before it broke off. I was about 50' away in my boat and could only watch. According to Ron the bass was over 30" long and the biggest bass had seen.

Lost another giant bass at Castaic the year before I caught the 19.3. I got a good look at this bass and it looked well over 20 lbs and 30" long. I was fishing from the back of a friends boat, my friend was so excited he forgot to keep the boat under control with the trolling motor and we drifted over a rocky point, the fish made a hard run across the point and broke off, so close and the memory never fades. You can't make mistakes and land these bass.

Tom

[Gaerith]

This is the best thread I've read in a long while. Please keep them coming; these stories are immensely entertaining and educational.

[Lucas Li]

A 25lber on record means one bigger than the current record exists, so someone should eventually catch it. Probably Karl Von Dibble.

[jhoffman]

How would you feel if a deer breeder used superior antler genetic deer,  raised captive bucks/does for 3 years, fed them high protein food, provided them with thousands of acres to live a free range life and then allowed hunters to hunt the area for said deer when they turned 4-5 years old and a world record was taken on the land?   I my opinion it would qualify for a world record on technical merit, but its not what was intended by nature. Its not any different than bass over the 21-22 lb mark being pursued for the sake of catching a weighty fish.  Nevertheless, its still tough to fish or hunt and the chances of catching or harvesting a record deer or bass in an "unnatural" environment is still stacked against the hunter or angler. 

 

I have a buddy with a deer farm, he produced a 2.5 year old buck with 200+" of antler. That deer at 1.5 was 170". You will never see that in nature.

 

I think theres a big misconception when it comes to creating super animals such as big bucks. To get the biggest of all bass we will need to tap into line breeding.

[RoLo]

Northern Largemouth Bass; lateral line scale count is 59-68, 15-16 scales below the lateral line.

Florida Largemouth Bass; lateral lne scales count is 69-72, 17-18 scales below the lateral line.

The scale count is your only visual method to identify the 2 different LMB strains.

NLMB native range was the Ohio and Mississippi River drainage. FLMB native range was Florida.

No bass are native west of the Rocky Mountains.

Tom

PS, lateral scales hole a nerve hole in each scale, 69+ = FLMB.

 

Actually, the scale-count method is not deemed conclusive, where DNA testing is the only reliable method of identification.

An accurate scale-count is not only time-consuming but easily skewed by misaligned scales and overlapping scales.

Furthermore, the scale-count for intergrade bass (hybrids) runs the gamut from 59 to 72, which sounds the death knell.

 

Beside DNA testing, the second surest way to identify a pure Florida-strain bass is to fish south of Ocala, Florida.

Northern-strain bass cannot survive in Florida, and intergrades are found chiefly north of Ocala, Florida.

Unlike anywhere else on earth, the number of intergrade bass in Florida progressively dries up as one travels south of Ocala, Florida.

Local biologists state that intergrade bass are absent from most waterbodies in central Florida.

On the contrary, the intergrade population of bass transplanted outside of Florida grows faster than any other population faction,

where pure Florida-strain bass are soon diluted.

 

Roger

[Catt]

So I need to make trip to Inverness?

[RoLo]

So I need to make trip to Inverness?

 

You do, and I'll meet you there

[WRB]

Roger, simply offering a method for anglers to determine what they caught without a DNA kit. Lateral Scales are fairly easy to count and the only method I know of that anglers can use to determine if a big bass is a FLMB or NLMB. Outside of Florida anglers consider all bass from Florida are FLMB, including integrades like F1.

If say that pure FLMB are from Ocala (central Florida) and south is technically correct, I agree and read a few studies. DNA study would be the sceinentific solution to determine a pure FLMB and agree with also. The other method would be size, 17 lbs+, it's a FLMB or FLMB intergrade.

The CA LMB record was 14 lbs 7 oz, before the introduction of FLMB, same lakes , same forage base. Without FLMB there would never be a 20+ lb LMB anywhere, thank you Florida!

Cuba is south of Ocala.

Tom

[RoLo]

Yes, I believe the world-record largemouth bass will be broken.

With regard to the next world-record, I've made a couple predictions over the years. 

Although both predictions fly in the face of conventional wisdom, neither has been struck down but the jury is still out:

 

(1)   In 1991, Bob Crupi boated a 22.01 pound monster from Lake Castaic, California, coming within 1/4 lb of Perry's world-record. 

I was living in Georgia at the time, and my buddy Jerry said that it's only a matter of time when California upends the Georgia record.

I made a bet with Jerry in 1991, that California would not break the world-record. Jerry is now 84 and still waiting  ;-)

 

(2)   Several years ago on the forum there was a thread similar to this, but instead of IF, the question was WHERE. 

In that thread I predicted that Japan might surprise everyone with the next world-record bass, but that went over like a lead balloon.

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Genetic Vigor

Many factors play into growing world-class bass, but among the most important criteria are 'genetic vigor' and 'geographic latitude'. 

Whenever a species is transplanted outside its native range it's pitted against covert long-term opposition. Early on, transplanted creatures 

typically do exceedingly well, but then things gradually go awry. Whatever happened to all the European starlings and English sparrows

that were going to displace our native birds? When fish are transplanted out of their natural range, the ultimate decline

is generally blamed on disease, over-harvest, competing species, drought, flood, ad infinitum. The real reason though

is a gradual and inevitable loss of genetic vigor. With each passing generation the gene pool becomes increasingly contaminated

with indigenous genes. As each new lake poops-out, the only way to keep the game alive is to pass the baton to another new lake

stocked with new transplants. In Florida however, there is no genetic poop-out, it's the only place on earth where almost any lake

or retention pond can yield a 13-lb bass with hands-off management.

 

Geographic Latitude  

To offer the most adaptable climate, fish transplants are usually made laterally to a similar latitude. If the latitude is too far north, 

it will shorten the 'growing season' of bass; if the latitude is too far south, it will shorten the 'life span' of bass. 

With regard to 'world-class' bass (not trophy bass), geographic latitude is a precarious balance, and in order to grow world-class bass 

you need to provide both a long growing season and long life. Those expecting big things from Honduras or Cuba will likely be

blindsided again. Honduras is only 15 degrees north of the equator and Cuba is about 22 deg N. At those hellish latitudes,

bass grow very fast but die very young due to metabolic burnout. It's the same as pushing a plant with high-powered grow lights.

The latitude tolerance for growing world-class bass is astonishingly narrow, but to home-in on the most promising latitude

we have only to refer to world-class bass of the past:

 

>> Current World-Record (Montgomery Lake, GA)   32nd Parallel

>> Dottie (Lake Dixon, CA)                                       33rd Parallel

>> Tied World-Record   (Lake Biwi, Japan)              35th Parallel

 

Roger

[Goose52]

.....................The latitude tolerance for growing world-class bass is astonishingly narrow,

but to home-in on the most promising latitude we have only to refer to world-class bass of the past:

 

>> Current World-Record (Montgomery Lake, GA)   32nd Parallel

>> Dottie (Lake Dixon, CA)                                    33rd Parallel

>> Tied World-Record   (Lake Biwi, Japan)              35th Parallel

 

Roger

 

Now that's interesting.  Hmmm, the 32nd parallel in the southern hemisphere runs through....................South Africa.............another location that has been mentioned as a possible contender for the next record...!

[00 mod]

Now that's interesting.  Hmmm, the 32nd parallel in the southern hemisphere runs through....................South Africa.............another location that has been mentioned as a possible contender for the next record...!

 

 

All of the others are in the Northern Hemisphere!

[flyfisher]

I don't think comparing raising and hunting a deer is a fair comparison.  Sure you can breed and get a huge deer and you can do the same with the bass.  The difference being that you still have to catch the bass where shooting that deer would be considerably easier.  I guess you could maybe get a bass that large and have him in a pond or something and get him used to people but barring that, it isn't comparing apples to apples.

[John G]

Hmm...

 

For some reason I can't find the record on an official State Of Florida

website. I did find another site with the state record at 17-4.

 

 

This info was posted on the wall at the FWC Exhibit at the Florida State Fair last Saturday when I was there. 17.4 1/4 oz for the Fl record.

 

[Bass Menace]

Now that's interesting.  Hmmm, the 32nd parallel in the southern hemisphere runs through....................South Africa.............another location that has been mentioned as a possible contender for the next record...!

 

We only have one dam (that I know of) above that latitude (29 deg South) that was stocked back in the 80's with FLMB. This dam is well known for large bass and great bags. I am heading out there tomorrow for my first time. 

 

http://goo.gl/qX7yPu

 

Most of our larger dams have mixed FLMB and NLMB.