Offshore Bassin ??

[Brian Needham]

I read the whole post...just curious where the numbers come from. Rounded or not. There are a lot of variables that I won't even pretend to know...forage base, ph, etc. I just do see how you can come up with any estimates like that without tracking studies. Studies I've seen suggest that bass move relatively shallow to feed at night and occasionally during the day; but spend most daylight hours suspended over deeper water.

 

 

The bolded text explains why you are having issue understanding...... "relatively shallow" is a relative term.

this being if a fish LIVES in 20fow, then 12fow is SHALLOW......conversely if a fish LIVES in 3fow then 10 fow is DEEP.

 

CATT, WRB, and scores of others.... I have even found out for myself (reading those guys stuff) that most fish DO NOT live shallow.

more on my made up numbers.... some live deep and never see the bank..... some live shallow and never see the main channel... and MANY are somewhere in between.

 

WHere do I get "many are in between"?? because during the spawn there is a concenration  of fish shallow... but after the spawn they aint there anymore, other than the resident fish, that LIVE there. so where do they go? they are migratory.

 

Hence:

Some LIVE shallow

Some LIVE deep

and others migrate.

 

the fish that live at the back North Saulty creek at guntersvile probably do not even know a river channel exsist..... and by the same token the ones the live on the river channel probably do not even know the back of North Saulty creek exsist.... but there are also many that live in the middle that move shallow to spawn and then move back out afterwards.

 

and that concentration is IMO, why Catt always has his boat in +/- 15FOW.

 

Catt. please correct me if I am wrong....... as my orginal question was posed to you, as yet somehow it turned into this, LOL

[Catt]

Brain, I hate putting numbers because it is impossible to do.

However 100% move shallow during the spawn but this does not mean they move to the bank.

Offshore bass will spawn offshore!

I keep my boat in 15' of water plus or minus 3' (12-18') because this is depth most grass stops growing & where I start my search.

Humans are "visual", we prefer to see what we are fishing which is why most anglers fish the bank.

[Brian Needham]

Got ya, thanks Catt!

 

I understand the numbers deal, understood.

[Smokinal]

I agree with you Catt and Brian, both. One thing we need to remember is that "shallow" or "deep" is all relative to each body of water. Some lakes I fish are 25' max so I would bet that most of the bass move into 2-8 ft to spawn. Whereas, like WRB mentioned, he has seen beds in 25' on deeper, clear lakes. In a lake with max depth of 100-150' or more, 25' could be considered shallow. In some of my water where max is 25', shallow will be pretty darn skinny.

And one certainly can't say "well bass are programmed to go shallow to spawn" because I know of lakes that are only 10 minutes apart; one has max of 30' and the other has 160'. The bass in one lake don't know what the bass in the other are doing, it's all relative to their own environment.

[Brian Needham]

.

Humans are "visual", we prefer to see what we are fishing .

 

that's why I buy good map cards!

[Catt]

Pro Tournament Anglers have mislead novice anglers into thinking bass fishing should be done at the fastest pace possible. They have told us we need a 7.0:1 gear ratio reels, then 8.0:1, & now I hear there is a 9.0:1!

They talk lures, lines, reels, rods, boats, down scan, side scan everything but basics.

Teaching basics is what has made the sight #1 on the world wide web!

If y'all really want to catch more bass & big bass slow down & get offshore!

[WRB]

I was talking to Aaron Marttens last Nov and he said the biggest change fishing B.A.S.S. elite events was deep water being 20' in most of the lakes they fish. Out west 20' is aversge depth, not deep!

Tom

[Brian Needham]

so true.......... I have really slowed down this year and I have more fish to show for it! and good uns too.

 

I have already caught more over 4# this year than I did all of last year, and it is all because I am SLOWING down and learning more offshore/structure everytime I launch my boat.

[Catt]

When tournament fishing gained popularity in 70s we fished from safe light in the morning until dark thirty. From mid May until September that was 12-14 hrs a day, this allowed time to locate & fish deep structure.

Today's tournaments are still from safe light but only until 3 pm & from late January until May or maybe June.

This shorter day & tournaments being during pre-spawn to early summer does not allow enough time to fish offshore effectively.

Run & Gunning a shore line is easier & quicker than offshore structure fishing. As a result the entire industry has become all about "speed".

[roadwarrior]

Question from cjam93:

 

Hey guys so I want to get out of only fishing what I can see above water. I have been doing some reading and I understand idling over humps and all to find a sweetspot to throw to. However I need some advice on how to start on my local lake. My problem is that there are no topo maps available for the lake I fish. So I cant really try to find structure from a map and then apply it on the lake. To give you an idea about hte lake, it is a reservoir, and I have seen water up to around 50 feet deep. However I have never caught fish, or heard of anyone else catching fish any deeper than around 20ft. Most of my summer fish last year coming off of 5xd's so around the 15ft range. The deeper water fish that I did catch were just from backing off the bank and still throwing in that direction, so I was not really using my electronics to target underwater cover.

 

So without a map to find structure, how would you go about fishing deep for largemouth? I was thinking just idle in the 10-20ft range until I find something that looks good on a point or just going down the bank until I see something, but that seems like it could take up quite a bit of time. Is there a more efficient way to go about it?

 

[Catt]

Sure lock the first one while I'm typing!

If it is a man made reservior there are topo maps, one does not flood the landscape without intensive surveying.

USGS has topo maps of the entie country, google it.

[Deleted account]

Sure lock the first one while I'm typing!

If it is a man made reservior there are topo maps, one does not flood the landscape without intensive surveying.

USGS has topo maps of the entie country, google it.

 

This ^.

 

It might not be a fishing map or chart, but the USGS and the ACOE document pretty much everything they do, or are thinking of doing.  Also idling around and looking with the proper settings on the FF is time well spent. Don't go deep for deep's sake, look around, it could be 12 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft, etc. Spend time on the water, and learn the body. There are no shortcuts.

[Deleted account]

I was talking to Aaron Marttens last Nov and he said the biggest change fishing B.A.S.S. elite events was deep water being 20' in most of the lakes they fish. Out west 20' is aversge depth, not deep!

Tom

 

I love the way he starts a new thought before he finishes the previous one, he's such a dude...

[cjam93]

Sure lock the first one while I'm typing!

If it is a man made reservior there are topo maps, one does not flood the landscape without intensive surveying.

USGS has topo maps of the entie country, google it.

 

 

This ^.

 

It might not be a fishing map or chart, but the USGS and the ACOE document pretty much everything they do, or are thinking of doing.  Also idling around and looking with the proper settings on the FF is time well spent. Don't go deep for deep's sake, look around, it could be 12 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft, etc. Spend time on the water, and learn the body. There are no shortcuts.

 

Sorry ,when I say there isnt one I mean of once it was flooded. I have found a few different ones online of th area before it was flooded however none of them state the actual boundaries of the lake, or have anything labeled on the map that would help narrow down exactly where the lake starts once you are looking at it if that makes sense. 

 

One more quick question if you dont mind, when you say with the correct settings on the FF what all are you referring to? I have read the two things to really look for is sensitivity and scrolling speed, is there anything else that really matters? What do you suggest for the scrolling speed? thanks for the help guys I appreciate it!

[WRB]

The run and gun tournament anglers only have to look at KVD for inspiration. Fishing slow and methodical like Aaron Martens also works within the same time period.

Like most bass anglers catching fish is my goal and a top water bite or a crankbait bite is fun fishing, deep structure with a drop rig can be boring. Catching bass is a lot more fun than casting lures and I catch more on deep structure than shoreline fishing.

One reason I like to make long casts with a jig or swimbait is too cover more deep structure without sitting on top of the bass, sometimes bass don't like boats overhead on clear water lakes. It's a lot easier to catch deep structure bass fishing vertical.

The only time my trolling motor moves my boat forward fast is to move 100 yards or so, otherwise it's keeping my boat positioned to make casts and stay on top of the structure and fish on the lowest setting under the prevailing conditions. You can't hurry up structure deep structure fishing.

Tom

[Catt]

LOL

KVD has fished 5 tournaments on Toledo Bend & aint cracked the top 15!

[WRB]

Cjam93,

Most topographic maps are in 5' elevation increments used for general survey, not a lot of detail but should get you started. Look up your lakes elevation at max pool and then a highlite marker and follow that elevation line around the lake perimeter. Draw a dark line where the dam is located, now you have a lake map.

If your lake is below the full pool elevation, take a different color marker and follow the current lake level.

Without any map you can visualize what may be underwater by observing the topography around the lake, it doesn't change because it's covered with water, except the trees may have been removed and any building, however foundations, road beds, bridges, etc are still there.

When the water warms the lake may stratify into thermo-layers, the top layer being where bass like to be because of higher levers of dissolved oxygen or DO. Where the first depth layer meets the next lower layer is called a thermocline and bass usually don't go much deeper, unless the reservoir is used to generate power by the dam. If your lake is small without topo maps, then it's probably not a power generation lake and develops a strong thermocline. You can search the site for how to set up your sonar to see a thermocline.

Your sonar become an essential tool when fishing deep structure.

I recommend Don Iovino's book "Finesse bass fishing and the sonar connection" for anyone who fishes deep structured lakes, it's dated but a valuable little reference book.

Tom

[Paul Roberts]

Cham93,

It's possible the bass in your lake never go deeper than 20ft. The advice from many above that deep is relative is very true. Things that can keep bass shallower can be:

 

-water clarity (the more turbid the shallower the bass -even the majority of the food chain- tend to be)

 

-temperature (thermocline can limit bass depth, and is seasonal)

 

-predominate prey species can have bass away from or closer to shorelines.

 

-competing predators (big pike and muskie and even walleye are known to affect how deep bass may be in some lakes).

 

So... you may already be fishing the depths the majority of bass are in your lake. But to make full use of those areas you can’t see, regardless of the actual depths, will require as reason said: “time on the water learning the lake”.

 

As far as finding "offshore" structure:

In many smaller lakes especially, the "offshore structure" is often attached to the shoreline, or associated with that "attached" structure. Huge reservoirs and lakes by contrast, with large areas of changing topography across the lake’s breadth, can have a lot of structure not attached to the shorelines so directly.

 

There actually are “shortcuts” (but certainly involve time spent not casting) and that is using electronics –the best you can afford and find time to learn to use. The reason offshore bass were/are such a new phenomenon is that they are not something everyone is equipped (technologically and experientially) to find and decipher. Catt suggested that we are primarily visual creatures, and that it very true. That holds a lot of us back. But that's not lost on sonar manufacturers and sonar visual interfaces have come a long way since the old green box. (Actually I loved flashers, and paper, but use color lcd now –would love side/down scan.)

 

But vision is not our only useful sense. Buck Perry did it the hard way, by systematically using lures and tackle he devised that allowed him to strain depths incrementally. It took him a lot of time most of us can’t or won’t put to it. With sonar and knowledge available now, it’s whole new world.

[cjam93]

Thanks for all the replies guys! This site has helped me with a lot of the different questions I have had over the past few months. I really appreciate it!

[RoLo]

Cham93,

It's possible the bass in your lake never go deeper than 20ft. The advice from many above that deep is relative is very true. Things that can keep bass shallower can be:

-water clarity (the more turbid the shallower the bass -even the majority of the food chain- tend to be)

-temperature (thermocline can limit bass depth, and is seasonal)

-predominate prey species can have bass away from or closer to shorelines.

-competing predators (big pike and muskie and even walleye are known to affect how deep bass may be in some lakes).

So... you may already be fishing the depths the majority of bass are in your lake. But to make full use of those areas you can’t see, regardless of the actual depths, will require as reason said: “time on the water learning the lake”.

 

As far as finding "offshore" structure:

In many smaller lakes especially, the "offshore structure" is often attached to the shoreline, or associated with that "attached" structure. Huge reservoirs and lakes by contrast, with large areas of changing topography across the lake’s breadth, can have a lot of structure not attached to the shorelines so directly.

There actually are “shortcuts” (but certainly involve time spent not casting) and that is using electronics –the best you can afford and find time to learn to use. The reason offshore bass were/are such a new phenomenon is that they are not something everyone is equipped (technologically and experientially) to find and decipher. Catt suggested that we are primarily visual creatures, and that it very true. That holds a lot of us back. But that's not lost on sonar manufacturers and sonar visual interfaces have come a long way since the old green box. (Actually I loved flashers, and paper, but use color lcd now –would love side/down scan.)

 

But vision is not our only useful sense. Buck Perry did it the hard way, by systematically using lures and tackle he devised that allowed him to strain depths incrementally. It took him a lot of time most of us can’t or won’t put to it. With sonar and knowledge available now, it’s whole new world.

 

You'll notice that Paul did not give 'Deep Water' the key to the city.

Instead, he pointed out several factors that influence the depth of bass in given lakes and at given times.

Such as:

 > Natural lakes versus artificial lakes (always start here)

 > Clear lakes vs. murky lakes

 > Estuarine prey vs. pelagic prey

 > Lakes containing northern pike or muskellunge (dominant predators 'force' largemouth bass to adhere to the littoral zone)

 > Depth of thermocline

 > Last but not least: depth of "Oxycline"

            In the summertime, the oxycline can 'force' bass to live close to the surface, a season when anglers expect bass to be deep.

 

Fishing only in deep water, or only in shallow water is fishing without versatility and adaptability.

In short, there is no free lunch.

 

Roger

[FD.]

You'll notice that Paul did not give 'Deep Water' the key to the city.

Instead, he pointed out several factors that influence the depth of bass in given lakes and at given times.

Such as:

 > Natural lakes versus artificial lakes (always start here)

 > Clear lakes vs. murky lakes

 > Estuarine prey vs. pelagic prey

 > Lakes containing northern pike or muskellunge (dominant predators 'force' largemouth bass to adhere to the littoral zone)

 > Depth of thermocline

 > Last but not least: depth of "Oxycline"

            In the summertime, the oxycline can 'force' bass to live close to the surface, a season when anglers expect bass to be deep.

 

Fishing only in deep water, or only in shallow water is fishing without versatility and adaptability.

In short, there is no free lunch.

 

Roger

 

 

Yep - "Deep" water for us is 8 feet. But that may be 100 yards or more offshore.  Now that I have the electronics to easily find the offshore grass in Toho and Kissimmee, I am spending more and more time "out there", by myself, with a fluke.

 

To answer the original question.  There are "probably" more and bigger fish offshore.  They are ABSOLUTELY less pressured.

[RoLo]

Yep - "Deep" water for us is 8 feet. But that may be 100 yards or more offshore.  Now that I have the electronics to easily find the offshore grass in Toho and Kissimmee, I am spending more and more time "out there", by myself, with a fluke.

 

To answer the original question.  There are "probably" more and bigger fish offshore.  They are ABSOLUTELY less pressured.

 

I'm sure you recall, about 3 years back KVD took 1st place in a Toho tourney by fishing a shallow hydrilla bed

about a half-mile offshore. Why did this come as a surprise to anyone, are anglers really that dense?

Do exactly what bass do, stay focused on Contour & Cover and pay NO attention to how near or far from the shoreline.

 

Roger

[Catt]

Y'all better be coping this to microsoft word

[Pz3]

Contour and cover seem to be key factors. But Mike iconelli explains really well in his you tube videos about all of this.

[Brian6428]

This is my kinda thread! It doesn't make me feel like I need to go to BPS and drop $300 on tackle. Knowledge sounds like the most important thing here!