2002 Ranger Battery Issue

[soopd]

My fishing buddy is having an on going issue with his Ranger and the batteries going dead.  He has a 2002 518vx with a 200hp yamaha.  He has brand new Deka Marine batteries Group 27.  He has an HDS 10 and a HDS 5 up front.  We fish a lot and at the end of the day his motor is dragging and barely starting.  We have been stranded a few times.  

 

His dad has a newer Ranger that is also having battery issues. He has a Humminbird 898 with Deka Marine batteries Group 29.   Is this a Ranger problem?

 

Any suggestions?  How do the guys that are running 2 HDS 10's or bigger keep their batteries up during an 8 hour tournament?

 

Thanks

[Koofy Smacker]

My guess is that either the battery was bad straight from the get go or the capacity of the battery needs to be bumped up to accommodate the draw of a motor that big with the HDS 10 running all day. I remember reading that the HDS units draw more than a typical unit. Could be wrong on that though

[soopd]

I would agree about being a bad battery.  However, this is a second set with the same problem.  Might be another bad battery but I would think that would be highly unlikely.  Thanks

[tbone1993]

Im lost dont you have separate batteries for electronics and big motor?

[Jig Man]

It is not a Ranger problem.  It is a drainage problem.  With all of today's accessories we need to rethink the cranking battery issue.  No longer is an 800 CCA cranking battery going to get the job done. 

 

Get a Sears Die Hard PM-1 agm battery with 1150 CCAs and be done with the problem.  I run 2 hds units, 2 lss boxes, aerator and start a 225 Optimax.  It is pricey and heavy but there is none better out there.

[Koofy Smacker]

Im lost dont you have separate batteries for electronics and big motor?

your supposed to have everything in the boat hooked to the cranking battery except the trolling motor. And yes if you can find out that the battery is in fact good then it is a drainage problem. Did you have any problems before you went with the Dekas?

[Koofy Smacker]

It is not a Ranger problem.  It is a drainage problem.  With all of today's accessories we need to rethink the cranking battery issue.  No longer is an 800 CCA cranking battery going to get the job done. 

 

Get a Sears Die Hard PM-1 agm battery with 1150 CCAs and be done with the problem.  I run 2 hds units, 2 lss boxes, aerator and start a 225 Optimax.  It is pricey and heavy but there is none better out there.

Lithium

[Way2slow]

I've run Deka batteries for many years.  Those and Trojans are about the only two I will run.  There is always the possibility his new battery could be bad or could have been sitting on the shelf too long before he bought it.

 

A number of things could be the problem and a combination of things.

 

First, what type battery is it.  Deka makes a group 27 deep cycle and they make a group 27 dual purpose.  If he's trying to use the deep cycle, that's part of his problem.  Deep cycle batteries do not deliver that large surge of cranking amps necessary for bigger motors.  They do ok when fully charged but after it's run down some from use during the day, they can't do it.  This is the design of the battery and not a fault in the battery.   So, make sure it's the Dual purpose and not the deep cycle. 

 

Next, fully charge it and have it tested.  A "good" new battery is going to test at least 10% over it's rated CCA capacity.  If it's below it's rated capacity, it probably sat on the shelf too long.

 

Does he charge the battery every time he returns from the lake.  If he has an onboard charger, does it charge the cranking battery as well at the TM batteries.  If not, that's his main problem right there.  The motor's charging system is usually not enough to fully charge the battery when running all the electronics, live wells and other stuff unless you are making long trips.  Even the bigger 60 amp charging system have a hard time keeping up if you are making lots of short runs.  The bulk of the time, the cranking battery can be at less than 80% charge at the end of the day, After a couple of trips, you have a dead battery that won't crank the motor. 

 

There are some other things that can happen also.  It's possible something could be placing a drain on the battery when not in use.  A bad rectifier or a number of other things can do that.  You would have to use a current meter and measure to see it there is any draw on the battery when everything is off.

 

Then it could be the charging system in the motor is not large enough or could have a problem so it's not putting out at full capacity.

 

At then end of the day, there should be nothing specific about the boat that should have any affect on the cranking battery as long as the main power switch is turned off when the boat is loaded on the trailer.  There is a hellavalot connected to the cranking battery, if it all does not go through the main power switch, then something could be getting left on.  Doing the current draw test will tell that.

[Fishing Rhino]

I had a similar problem with my first Nitro.  It had nothing to do with the brand of the boat.  I had a two bank battery charger which was connected to the two trolling motor batteries.  No problem, I thought since the motor would keep the cranking battery charged up.  The only things running off the cranking battery was a Humminbird 898. the Lowrance that came with the boat, and a small Humminbird at the bow.  Never gave a second thought to the cranking battery until, one day, at the far end of the pond, the battery did not have enough power to start the motor. 

 

My problem is that around here we don't run the outboard enough to keep the battery fully charged.  The ponds are small.  So, over many trips, I gradually drained the cranking battery.  To prevent that, I'd plug in the onboard charger, and used a small battery charger to keep the cranking battery fully charged.  No more problem.

[Dwight Hottle]

First, what type battery is it.  Deka makes a group 27 deep cycle and they make a group 27 dual purpose.  If he's trying to use the deep cycle, that's part of his problem.  Deep cycle batteries do not deliver that large surge of cranking amps necessary for bigger motors.  They do ok when fully charged but after it's run down some from use during the day, they can't do it.  This is the design of the battery and not a fault in the battery.   So, make sure it's the Dual purpose and not the deep cycle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Way2slow

 

I respect your opinion & knowledge but I disagree with the above statement for my application. I run a Sears Die Hard PM-1 agm battery with 1150 CCA. Sears classifies it as a deep cycle battery. I use one as my primary battery for starting and all other functions except the trolling motor which runs the same batteries for a 24 volt trolling motor. I have a mercury 250 pro xs & a mercury 9.9 pro kicker & run a lowrance HDS 10 and live wells pumps & recirculation & two bilge pumps, lights etc. I have never had any issues with this battery after two full years since I installed it. Maybe this battery is an exception to the deep cycle theory

[Jig Man]

X2 Dwight

[Way2slow]

Sorry, I guess I just don't know anything about batteries. 

 

First off, both Dual Purpose and Deep cycle batteries are usually called deep cycle, but have a slightly different plate design.   A true deep cycle will usually never have the a MCA/CCA number on them because they are not designed or intended to be used as a cranking battery.   A lot of companies just call theirs deep cycle, marine batteries which are in reality dual purpose batteries.  Any "deep cycle" battery that has a published CCA/MCA number is also intended for cranking purpose. 

 

Industrial, deep cycle batteries can have thick, solid lead plates.  They put out current over a long period of time but can't put out large amounts without have lots of plates and last number of years if properly taken care of.  Making them very large, very heavy and very expensive

 

The next step down would be something like golf cart batteries.  they to can have solid lead plates but just not as thick as industrial grade batteries.  You will probably never see a CCA number on a golf cart battery.

 

Then you have the TM deep cycle.  Some of those have solid lead plates but much thinner than the other two because the cost and weight but most have a very fine grid type plate to increase the plate surface to give the large amounts of current many of the new TMs draw and still have a reasonable size battery.  The fine grid, while produces more current than the GC or Industrial, still does not do cranking amps enough for a big motor.

 

The dual purpose battery has a cell design that about 20% of the plate surface is a much more open grid, greatly increasing surface area, and the rest is a fine mesh grid for the deep cycle function.  The dual purpose will produce large amounts of current for a short period for cranking the motor while still having the ability to operate in the deep cycle mode.  It's main draw back as a cranking battery is, if the motor does not start within a short time, it does not have the ability to keep supply those large numbers of cranking amps like a cranking battery can, because cranking batteries whole cell  has an open mesh grid, but they won't handle deep cycle use and can't handle many full discharges. 

 

AGM's are a different animal that flooded cell batteries.

 

I guess I should has said flooded cell, lead acid batteries, which I made the mistake of making the assumption that was what he had, because Deka does make one of the best AGM's on the planet also. 

[Dwight Hottle]

You do not have to tell me sorry. I know your level of expertise & respect it.

Thanks for the explanation. I thought sometime was different regarding the AGM'S because they are capable of performing both functions unlike the flooded cell batteries. 

[tritonguy]

Is the battery drain problem just the cranking battery?  The Ranger in those years have an analog clock in the dash that draws power constantly.  The Yamaha engine draws constantly and requires a 1000 cca battery.  If you try to use a battery with less cold cranking amps within a week or so the cranking battery will be to low on charge to start the outboard.  Most older

rangers like yours have a breaker to shut the power off to the boat itself but the outboard does not.  I have been down this road with many customers and Yamaha tends to draw more power than Mercury or Evinrude.

[soopd]

Part number is Deka 27m6 C.C.A 840 and M.CA 1050.

He charges them using a 3 bank charger at the same time he charges trolling motors. Also, he has two breaker switches that he flips off when he puts boat back on trailer.

[Jig Man]

840 CCA is the killer.  Not near enough for today's stuff.

[Fishing Rhino]

Is the battery drain problem just the cranking battery?  The Ranger in those years have an analog clock in the dash that draws power constantly.  The Yamaha engine draws constantly and requires a 1000 cca battery.  If you try to use a battery with less cold cranking amps within a week or so the cranking battery will be to low on charge to start the outboard.  Most older

rangers like yours have a breaker to shut the power off to the boat itself but the outboard does not.  I have been down this road with many customers and Yamaha tends to draw more power than Mercury or Evinrude.

 

Put a battery switch in the boat for the cranking battery, and nothing can draw from it, provided the switch is turned off when the boat is not in use.

[Way2slow]

Actually that's plenty CCA. CCA has nothing to do with running all the electronics and other stuff all day that todays bass boats have. The CCA number is just how much current a fully charged battery can deliver in a quick surge.

The number that counts when it comes to running all the electronics etc is the RC number. That's the one that needs to be as high as possible.

If you had a battery with 2,000 CCA but only had 100 minutes RC. It would crank a MAC truck but wouldn't run your bass boat all day and crank it at the end of the day without the motor doing a lot of charging of the battery.

The battery switch is a good point but make sure it's a battery disconnect designed for a large amount of current and not just a switch. Remember, anything you use to disconnect the battery needs to be able to handle that several hundred amp surge needed to get the starter motor spinning. I don't like using anything to disconnect the cranking battery because too many of them have the potential to create and arc when opening and closing the contacts. Arc's in today's motors can be dangerous to the SECMs and charging system. That's why it's dangerous to connect jumper cables to the cranking battery. Pop one of those and it will ruin your day.