Super User RoLo Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 Hmm... Just a matter of priorities I think. Although I don't own any $100 lures, I know lots of guys who spend thousands of dollars for "add-ons" on their $40,000 pickups and $50,000 boats. I'll bet Fishing Rhino remembers the Green Machine used for bluewater trolling. As far back as the 1970s, a daisy chain of plastic squids ran about 60 bucks. Nonetheless, if you own a $60K boat & $600 custom-made trolling rods...a $60 daisy chain isn't going to stop the show. Roger
Super User SPEEDBEAD. Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 I'm not rich. LOL My family is warm, happy and well fed. If I have a few bucks left over to buy something of value, so be it. As long as I'm not throwing the price in your face or saying you are less of a person because you choose not to purchase those things, then what does it really matter? I appreciate the time and effort that swimbait makers put into their product. In my eyes, they are dedicating their effort to help me catch bigger fish. Are they making a buck? Sure, you would want to make some money in that situation too. Don't get it twisted though. Break it down into hourly rate, taking into consideration all the R&D, carving, pouring, fine tuning and you'll see that it's probably comparable to what you make hourly or more likely less. The guys who REALLY know what they are doing (perfect example is the guy a couple posts above me) can honestly command a higher price than they are currently charging. Have you ever seen the second-hand swimbait market, affectionately known to most of us as the Black Market? I'll agree that it's ridiculous what some people will pay for a hard to get bait. If manufacturers based their pricing on what people would really pay for a bait, THEN you'd see some craziness. Fish what you want and what makes you happy. 9
Hyrule Bass Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 frankly, as long as people buy them, the companies making the high priced baits will continue to sell them, and continue to raise prices.
Super User J Francho Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 frankly, as long as people buy them, the companies guys trying to put food on the table making the high priced baits will continue to sell them, and continue to raise prices. I think guys forget that most of these high end baits are made by self employed, skilled craftsmen, not some faceless, massive corporation. 6
Maico1 Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I think guys forget that most of these high end baits are made by self employed, skilled craftsmen, not some faceless, massive corporation. You are asking a lot from people to actually understand that, we are talking price.......not to mention these guys will bend over backwards to service you and stand behind their products. 1
Super User RoLo Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 frankly, as long as people buy them, the companies making the high priced baits will continue to sell them, and continue to raise prices. Price is controlled by supply & demand, it doesn't rise in a vacuum. When the quality or effectiveness doesn't justify the cost, the price will move down, not up. Roger
Super User J Francho Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 Really, supply and demand? No consideration for R&D, materials cost, and labor? I think it's a little more complicated than simple supply and demand. They are handcrafted baits not commodities. Some of he best baits out there are the result of thousands of hours of trial and error. Often times when you buy one of these baits it's really just a snapshot in the evolution of bait maker's process. 1
Super User RoLo Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 Really, supply and demand? No consideration for R&D, materials cost, and labor? I think it's a little more complicated than simple supply and demand. They are handcrafted baits not commodities. Some of he best baits out there are the result of thousands of hours of trial and error. Often times when you buy one of these baits it's really just a snapshot in the evolution of bait maker's process. The variables you mention and a great many more are already factored into the price by the marketplace, which is a highly efficient mechanism. When a company overcharges for R&D, labor or what have you, they reduce 'demand' for that product, a little thing called Competition. Roger
Super User J Francho Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 These aren't Fortune 500, international corporations, usually just one or two guys working out of a garage or small shop.
gobig Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I have to agree with Rolo. Not to discount what some of these guys do but R&D, labor, materials cost ect... don't mean jack if you produce something no one wants. Supply and demand make up the market place in its purest form free of govt control or price fixing. A commodity is simply something that can be bought or sold. If many of these baits were readily available they would not sell for twice the retail value and with out the demand they would sell below retail.
Super User RoLo Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 These aren't Fortune 500, international corporations, usually just one or two guys working out of a garage or small shop. Matters not, price is still determined by the marketplace. The advantage of being a two-man cellar shop is low overhead, which makes you more competive, not less competitive.
Super User K_Mac Posted January 27, 2014 Super User Posted January 27, 2014 It is disposable income that determines the price I am willing to pay. This means that I am often priced out of the market for many things, including some fishing tackle and gear. I do not resent anyone for buying anything that I can't afford though. Too many people consider anything beyond their means excess. That is a very limited, and limiting way of looking at the world IMO. Matt, of Mattlures fame and fortune , is a fine example of a guy who has developed a product for a specific demographic. Many will find his prices too high. It does not matter at all. He can sell more than he can make at prices that are very reasonable in his market. I just found out a few minutes ago that an eye exam and new pair of glasses will cost me $516. Is that too much? It is too much for me to pay without some cost -cutting in other areas. I could go somewhere else and probably buy glasses a little cheaper. I won't, because I know when I buy glasses from this place I will get exactly what I want, and if I have any issues they will be taken care of without delay or argument. Price and cost are often two very different things. 2
Mattlures Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Rolo does have a point. Tons of R&D and a quality product does not mean the bait will survive if priced to high. When it comes to fishing lures the bait has to produce bites. When it comes to swimbaits, the baits have to produce big bites. If the baits fail to do this then only the collectors will want them. Quality product and great customer service will only last so long if the design does not produce the desired results. When you do have a bait that produces big bites and you provide great customer service along with a quality product, then you can charge a higher price and have a healthy market. When it comes to real swimbaits there are only a handful of companies producing great baits. There are many cheaper knock offs that simply do not produce any where near as good as the originals. Because of this, the market has not become saturated with great baits. there is a limited supply and there is a demand. There is a large supply of the inferior swimbaits and once a bait has been shown to be a poor producer there is almost no demand. Unfortunately these are the baits that many beginners buy to try out swimbaiting and then they think swimbaits don't work for them. Had they bought a good bait to begin with they most likely would have had much better results. 1 proven swimbait for $50 is better then 10 junk baits that cost $5 each. However ther are a few great baits that aren't very expensive and there are plenty of newer swimbait companies that charge a premium for bait that are poor producers. On a side note it always bothers me when guys think they don't need swimbaits because they don't have 10lb bass where they live. I bet they still have 8lbers. And 2lb bass do eat 8in baits. 5lbers eat them all the time. The idea of throwing real swimbaits is to target the biggest bass you have in your waters, weather its a 15lber or an 8lber. 4
Super User J Francho Posted January 28, 2014 Super User Posted January 28, 2014 I guess my argument is that if you put the R&D, use quality materials, and build a solid fish catcher, the demand is a given. The maker rarely gets fully compensated for their total effort. Maybe I'm wrong, but my guess is that these guys aren't rolling in dough. Making money, yes. But getting rich? I doubt it. The best baits come from guys that do it because they love it and want to share their success. If they can fund development of new baits by selling proven designs, I'm grateful to be able to buy the baits. I don't remember what I paid for my hard floater, but it's money well spent. As for having a fancy bait just to show off…I've replaced the split rings and hooks a few times, and that's not because they were cheap. They wore out and rusted. The finish is a little chopped, but pretty much perfect after many northern bass. To say it's all about the money, and that prices are high because that's what we'll pay isn't really the whole truth. If they didn't work so well, they wouldn't sell. If the don't sell, no one is gonna make them for a loss. 1
NEjitterbugger Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 It's as simple as not spending that much money for a lure, some Roman made's go for $400+ I believe...
Mattlures Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 J Francho You are correct sir. I am not wealthy. I make enough to stay in business and pay my bills.
Super User ww2farmer Posted January 28, 2014 Super User Posted January 28, 2014 J Francho You are correct sir. I am not wealthy. I make enough to stay in business and pay my bills. Are you related to my boss? LMAO
Super User RoLo Posted January 28, 2014 Super User Posted January 28, 2014 Rolo does have a point. Tons of R&D and a quality product does not mean the bait will survive if priced to high. When it comes to fishing lures the bait has to produce bites. When it comes to swimbaits, the baits have to produce big bites. If the baits fail to do this then only the collectors will want them. Quality product and great customer service will only last so long if the design does not produce the desired results. When you do have a bait that produces big bites and you provide great customer service along with a quality product, then you can charge a higher price and have a healthy market. When it comes to real swimbaits there are only a handful of companies producing great baits. There are many cheaper knock offs that simply do not produce any where near as good as the originals. Because of this, the market has not become saturated with great baits. there is a limited supply and there is a demand. There is a large supply of the inferior swimbaits and once a bait has been shown to be a poor producer there is almost no demand. Unfortunately these are the baits that many beginners buy to try out swimbaiting and then they think swimbaits don't work for them. Had they bought a good bait to begin with they most likely would have had much better results. 1 proven swimbait for $50 is better then 10 junk baits that cost $5 each. However ther are a few great baits that aren't very expensive and there are plenty of newer swimbait companies that charge a premium for bait that are poor producers. On a side note it always bothers me when guys think they don't need swimbaits because they don't have 10lb bass where they live. I bet they still have 8lbers. And 2lb bass do eat 8in baits. 5lbers eat them all the time. The idea of throwing real swimbaits is to target the biggest bass you have in your waters, weather its a 15lber or an 8lber. Matt, there's another big positive working in your court. Here in Florida for example, some bait dealers charge up to $20 a dozen for 'large' native golden shiners. Though some anglers buy up to 8 dozen shiners, the usual order is about 4 dozen, which sets the angler back about $80. At day's end those baits are gone forever, but the swimbait goes back in your tackle box Roger 1
The Young Gun Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Simple. Don't buy it if it's not for you. High end baits have the audience to keep them going across multiple species of fish. Dont get serious about musky fishing if you're afraid to spend coin on big baits. X2
Super User Hooligan Posted January 28, 2014 Super User Posted January 28, 2014 Those are mid range prices for higher end lures anyway. Not really, mate. Those are entry level prices on the mid-range of things. There are collectors baits out there than go in the thousands, both in muskies and bass. I own a few of the upper end baits like Roman Made and ETRC. A few that most of the guys here have never heard of, and a few that are underground secrets. I have no qualms about spending that money on baits, it's not as though I'm ever going to lose it. I've never had a bait so hung- in that category- that I couldn't get back. I've lost more $18-$20 jerkbaits than I care to think about, most to the appeasement of the Esox gods. You say there are more things that you can spend that money on, great, go do that. The caveat to that, is go fish CA or TX when those double digit fish are on that triple digit offering and a $5 crankbait just isn't going to cut it. I've had more fun hucking a 12" glide bait for ten hours catching three fish (For a weight of over 35lbs) than I have catching a hundred fish in the same time span. THe reverse is also true. That said, though, there are times when nothing but those giants work, and when that's the case I'm throwing them. I guess, to me, it doesn't matter whether it's quantity or quality when it comes to baits. I'm going to buy whatever I choose to buy, as are you. Calling me insane, ludicrous, or stupid for doing so is pretty ridiculous. 2
gallowaypt Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Let people spend their money however they see fit. There are many worse things one could spend $150 on.
basshole8190 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Bottom line is.... you buy what catches you fish. Whether its a 4 dollar rebel crank or 400 dollar handcrafted swimbait. if it catches you fish and you're happy with your catch results, what else really matters? I've been on both sides of this argument. a broke young fisherman who was fishing a 10" power worm until it was shorter than my hook . also I've had the disposable income to drop 500 bucks on custom hand crafted baits. Like speed said earlier, my fanily is fed clothed and happy first before i even consider buying any fishing gear. I've fished with guys who whooped my tail with a zara spook while I'm throwing a 316 wake jr. also I've stunned a guy with a 8" hudd while he threw a foot ball jig. To sum it up ... "Different Strokes For Different Folks"
Kirk Bonanny Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I wholeheartedly agree that lure prices are getting crazy, but our money doesn't go near as far as it did even 10-15 years ago, so it is a little bit of both. Prior to fishing in a tournament my most expensive lures were $5 to $8.00. I remember the first time I saw a Lucky Craft I thought to myself that I'd never spend that much for any lure... Until one day I drew a partner who was throwing a Pointer 78 and out fished my Rogue's & Rapala's 4:1 or better. That night I went out and bought two as this was a two day tournament and on the 2nd day I was able to slightly out fish him. I never dreamed that would have been possible, but seeing is believing! I now have more Lucky Craft (and other pricey lures) than I know what to do with, but I do use them very often. My main regret is that I have an old style Lucky Craft Crankbait I bought when I was afraid to spend that kind of money on a single lure. That lure has won me many a river tournament, and by the time I realized what I had that model was discontinued. I tried custom painting other cranks in the Nishiki (Clown) color but they do not produce anywhere near as well as that single lucky Craft. I always keep my eyes open hoping to encounter a few more of these, but I think that well dried up a long time ago.
Global Moderator Bluebasser86 Posted January 28, 2014 Global Moderator Posted January 28, 2014 Personally I dont own any of the very expensive swim-baits or glide-baits, mainly because I live in mn and these baits would most likely have a very low probability for success. That being said if i did live or fish in areas with fish over 10 lb are a real possibility on any given day I would have some of these big baits in the box, honestly though for 100 dollars a bait I would probably just make my own custom lures in the off season, then beam with pride the first double digit fish I catch with my own custom swimbait. thats just me though. Mitch I know of quite a few guys in Minnesota that fish swimbaits and catch lots of fish on them. You don't have to have 10 pounds to be successful with swimbaits. I do 90% of my fishing in Kansas, not exactly known for it's big bass potential. Our state record is just shy of 12 pounds but a 10 pounder is extremely rare here. Still, I catch my share of fish on swimbaits. I feel a lot of my success is due to the fact that fish rarely see these types of baits, but that doesn't change the fact that the fish here will still eat a big shad or bluegill if one presents itself at the right time. I think my biggest concern where you're at are things with teeth. We have almost no pike and zero muskie in KS to worry about stealing my baits.
Hyrule Bass Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I think guys forget that most of these high end baits are made by self employed, skilled craftsmen, not some faceless, massive corporation. doesnt really matter to me who makes them, a big factory or a guy in his garage, if people are willing to pay the price for them, then the price is going to stay high and possibly increase in time. its a pretty simple theory. Price is controlled by supply & demand, it doesn't rise in a vacuum. When the quality or effectiveness doesn't justify the cost, the price will move down, not up. Roger what im saying is, if people are paying the price, its unlikely to go down, and more likely to go up eventually.
Recommended Posts