Battery Charging

[Alpha Male]

I have a question about charging batteries. My father has a smoker craft 161 promag. He has a trolling motor, lowrance elite 7HDI, along with a second depthfinder up front. He is 56 and has gout, with his health he from time to time will start the outboard just to charge the batteries because he is worried the batteries wont have enough power to start the motor. the depthfinder shows voltage and he generally starts the motor when voltage gets just below 11v. should he be worried? should he keep doing this? at the very worst I am thinking about buying him a diehard battery booster pack so that should the motor not start he can just jump it himself.

 

any thoughts would be helpful. thanks in advance.

[slonezp]

First off, I hope he's starting it in water or at least with earmuffs on. Starting the outboard is not charging the batteries. The outboard will need to run for some time to charge the starting battery, and does nothing for the trolling motor batteries. Either get a portable charger and charge each battery individually, or install an onboard charger with a total number of banks that equals the total number of batteries. He can then just plug the charger in when the boat is not in use.

[ww2farmer]

What does your father's health issues have to do with battery charging............maybe it's just me, but they seem unrelated.

[Alpha Male]

First off, I hope he's starting it in water or at least with earmuffs on. Starting the outboard is not charging the batteries. The outboard will need to run for some time to charge the starting battery, and does nothing for the trolling motor batteries. Either get a portable charger and charge each battery individually, or install an onboard charger with a total number of banks that equals the total number of batteries. He can then just plug the charger in when the boat is not in use.

 

I will have to research how his batteries are wired. What I do know is that he frequently checks the depth finder to see battery voltage. When the voltage is lower than 11v he will start the motor. and yes its in the water.

 

What does your father's health issues have to do with battery charging............maybe it's just me, but they seem unrelated.

 

Inability to row to shore which happened twice last year. he was too sore to get out of bed for a couple of days after he had to row last time. and that was on a lake that was 1000 acres. He frequently fishes on lake mille lacs (130,000 acres) and I am worried about it.

 

Any real solutions to keep him out of these emergency situations would be helpful.

 

Again I am a novice when it comes to marine wiring so any knowledge you can share would be appreciated.

[TRYTOFISH]

Get an onboard charger leave it plugged in.(Most new onboard chargers maintain). PUT A SET OF JUMPER CABLES IN THE BOAT! I always carry a set just in case.

[Jig Man]

If his cranking battery is dropping that low then you should buy him a good one with lots of CCA.  If you want to spend some bucks get the Sears PM1.  I run 2 hds low units, 2 lss 1 boxes and areator all day long.  I have an Optimax motor which takes several turn overs to start.  My Sears agm does an awesome job for me.

[ww2farmer]

Is anyone else who read the original post thinking that, (the way he worded it) he has the outboard, electronics, and TM all on the same batt.? If that is the case, there's your biggest problem.

[slonezp]

Is anyone else who read the original post thinking that, (the way he worded it) he has the outboard, electronics, and TM all on the same batt.? If that is the case, there's your biggest problem.

That's very possible as well. In that case, at the minimum, a portable jump box should be kept on the boat.

[Jig Man]

I reread it and it is hard to say since multiple batteries were mentioned with no info on the tmotor.  He needs to come back and give us more info about the setup.

[slonezp]

Something else you should be concerned with is the fuel. If its not being used up, and not properly treated, there is a possibility of the fuel going bad and gumming up the motor. 

[Alpha Male]

Thank you all for your time

 

I reread it and it is hard to say since multiple batteries were mentioned with no info on the tmotor.  He needs to come back and give us more info about the setup.

 

There are 3 batteries in the boat that is a fact as i have seen them all. As a novice, to marine wiring anyways, I am not sure whether all are hooked up together for everything, or 2 are for the trolling motor alone, or 2 are for the outboard and electronics and one is for the trolling motor.  I have been out on the lake for 12+ hours using the trolling motor extensively and havent seen him plug in a charger. He had said that the mercury 4-stroke 90hp has a way to charge the battery. I had asked if it was an alternator and he didnt know exactly how it worked but said that it charged it.

 

 

Is anyone else who read the original post thinking that, (the way he worded it) he has the outboard, electronics, and TM all on the same batt.? If that is the case, there's your biggest problem.

 

Like i mentioned there are 3 batteries, but I am unaware of how they are wired.

 

If his cranking battery is dropping that low then you should buy him a good one with lots of CCA.  If you want to spend some bucks get the Sears PM1.  I run 2 hds low units, 2 lss 1 boxes and areator all day long.  I have an Optimax motor which takes several turn overs to start.  My Sears agm does an awesome job for me.

 

The Batteries are fairly new, less than 3 years old.

 

Get an onboard charger leave it plugged in.(Most new onboard chargers maintain). PUT A SET OF JUMPER CABLES IN THE BOAT! I always carry a set just in case.

 

 

I will look into that. How does it work? will it charge all batteries? is it self sufficient (meaning does it get plugged into an outlet at home or does it charge from the outboard)?

 

And I was looking into the diehard battery booster pack as a self jumping solution.

 

 

 

 

Again thank you all for your information and help.

[TRYTOFISH]

If you have 3 batteries, get a 3 bank charger. Depending on how fast you wont to charge determines how many amps per bank you need. Plug into a 110 volt outlet and leave it alone. I would recommend checking out levels in batteries to make sure there up to snuff. I would also recommend checking on the charger and batteries every week or two.

[ww2farmer]

Well, check into how they are wired. The TM should be on it's own circut/battery (s).  If it's not, thats a big part of the problem....no ammount of pre/post trip charging is going to solve anything. The TM will suck the life out of the batteries, and very fast too if your using the same batteries to start the OB, and run other electronics.

[Alpha Male]

Well, check into how they are wired. The TM should be on it's own circut/battery (s).  If it's not, thats a big part of the problem....no ammount of pre/post trip charging is going to solve anything. The TM will suck the life out of the batteries, and very fast too if your using the same batteries to start the OB, and run other electronics.

 

I will thank you.

 

If you have 3 batteries, get a 3 bank charger. Depending on how fast you wont to charge determines how many amps per bank you need. Plug into a 110 volt outlet and leave it alone. I would recommend checking out levels in batteries to make sure there up to snuff. I would also recommend checking on the charger and batteries every week or two.

 

So basically the jist of what Im hearing is that there is no way to charge the batteries other than plugging it in to an outlet when I get off the water. is that correct?

Is the outboard able to charge the starting batteries? Would a battery booster pack be a good last resort type of thing to have in the boat instead of just jumper cables?

[slonezp]

I will thank you.

 

 

So basically the jist of what Im hearing is that there is no way to charge the batteries other than plugging it in to an outlet when I get off the water. is that correct?

Is the outboard able to charge the starting batteries? Would a battery booster pack be a good last resort type of thing to have in the boat instead of just jumper cables?

Depends on how much you want to spend. Someone makes a switch to start the big motor off the trolling motor batteries in the instance the starting battery dies. I keep a jump box in my boat. It really doesn't take up much room. Best bet is to make sure all batteries are fully charged. If for some reason the big motor quits, he can use the troller to get back to the dock. An average onboard charger is under $200 and are relatively easy to install. Sounds like the boat is kept on the water with no electric at the dock, correct? Would it be feasible to install an onboard charger and run extension cord(s)?

[Brian Needham]

3 batteries = 3 bank onboard charger..... problem solved, no?

keep a booster pack in the boat for "just in case".

[Jig Man]

I think you need to find some who knows what to look for and have them take a look at what you have and how it is rigged up.  The traditional method would be 2 batteries for the trolling motor and 1 for cranking the outboard and running accessories.

[Alpha Male]

Depends on how much you want to spend. Someone makes a switch to start the big motor off the trolling motor batteries in the instance the starting battery dies. I keep a jump box in my boat. It really doesn't take up much room. Best bet is to make sure all batteries are fully charged. If for some reason the big motor quits, he can use the troller to get back to the dock. An average onboard charger is under $200 and are relatively easy to install. Sounds like the boat is kept on the water with no electric at the dock, correct? Would it be feasible to install an onboard charger and run extension cord(s)?

 

It is kept on the lake from time to time, but does come back to the cabin fairly regularly.

 

3 batteries = 3 bank onboard charger..... problem solved, no?

keep a booster pack in the boat for "just in case".

 

There is a battery charger in the garage so Im not really looking to buy an onboard charger. 

 

I think you need to find some who knows what to look for and have them take a look at what you have and how it is rigged up.  The traditional method would be 2 batteries for the trolling motor and 1 for cranking the outboard and running accessories.

 

It is in storage for the winter but i will check it out in the spring.

[Brian Needham]

the advantages of the onboard are worth the price of admission, IMO.

 

they are truly, no hassle,  plug and play and never have to second guess if the batteries are ready to go.

 

good luck and I hope you find the result you are looking for, and your pops stays safe.

[Jig Man]

Stored for the winter can be a bad thing.  Fluid cells need to be charged monthly.  They may be totally dead and ruined by spring.

[MikeinFresno]

3 on board chargers aer under $200 at big name stores

[Koofy Smacker]

    Every single thing in the entire boat up to and including outboard motor, fish finders, livewells, lights, radios etc should be run off the starting/cranking battery. The ONLY item in the boat which is to be run off of the other two is the trolling motor which; depending on whether it is a 12v or 24v trolling motor dictates how they should be wired together.

    Do a google search on "running 12v batteries in parallel and series" and it will give you a good understanding on how that works. Parallel battery sequences simply put keeps the batteries output at 12v while adding the battery capacity of each battery together for longer life on that single charge. Series battery sequences creates an output of 24v which is mandatory for a 24v motor. The motor pulls lower amounts of amps but requires the 24v to run.

    What I stated above is the critical part of everything I am writing. Once this is right then you should decide on how to keep the batteries charged. Once you spend a day fishing, or even an hour or two running anything off the batteries it is CRUCIAL to charge them ASAP after you get off the water. It doesnt matter if you pull up and dock it for the night. Every single second the batteries spend sitting idle after losing a charge they slowly start to die. This is why so many guys in this thread recommended an on board charger so when you get off the water plug it in and forget about it. Even if this means pulling the batteries from the boats and putting them on the charger in the garage after every trip by all means DO IT.

     Another thing I should mention is that a battery; especially the starting/cranking battery should never ever ever get down to 11v in a single day. This right off the bat tells me that the battery is bad or that it hasnt been charged in quite some time. A perfect 12v battery should read 12.6v which with the 6 cells in a 12v battery means 2.1v per cell which are internally wired in series (read above). Any reading higher than 12.6v is simply a surface charge which will diminish within a few minutes of having any charge pulling from the battery be it a light or fish finder which is called a load test. A simple way to test it is to fully charge the battery and go hook it up in the boat, turn on the fish finders and livewell for 10 minutes. Turn them off, wait another 5 minutes and then test. If it has dropped below 12.1v or 12.2v the battery is bad and needs replacing.

    I ran into this issue several years ago before I fully understood battery basics and although it would appear that it was fully charged before every outing it would consistently drop to 11v halfway through the day forcing me to do exactly what your dad is doing in turning on the motor. It left me stranded and I needed to jump off the trolling motor batteries 3 times just to get back to the dock.

   Follow the advice in this post and in the rest of the thread and you will be fine and you can sleep well at night knowing he will be in working order. Just remember, keep them charged before EVERY trip, keep an eye on them and you will be fine for several years before the batteries naturally die over time.

    If you have any questions feel free to send me a message and I will get back to you.

[Alpha Male]

    Every single thing in the entire boat up to and including outboard motor, fish finders, livewells, lights, radios etc should be run off the starting/cranking battery. The ONLY item in the boat which is to be run off of the other two is the trolling motor which; depending on whether it is a 12v or 24v trolling motor dictates how they should be wired together.

    Do a google search on "running 12v batteries in parallel and series" and it will give you a good understanding on how that works. Parallel battery sequences simply put keeps the batteries output at 12v while adding the battery capacity of each battery together for longer life on that single charge. Series battery sequences creates an output of 24v which is mandatory for a 24v motor. The motor pulls lower amounts of amps but requires the 24v to run.

    What I stated above is the critical part of everything I am writing. Once this is right then you should decide on how to keep the batteries charged. Once you spend a day fishing, or even an hour or two running anything off the batteries it is CRUCIAL to charge them ASAP after you get off the water. It doesnt matter if you pull up and dock it for the night. Every single second the batteries spend sitting idle after losing a charge they slowly start to die. This is why so many guys in this thread recommended an on board charger so when you get off the water plug it in and forget about it. Even if this means pulling the batteries from the boats and putting them on the charger in the garage after every trip by all means DO IT.

     Another thing I should mention is that a battery; especially the starting/cranking battery should never ever ever get down to 11v in a single day. This right off the bat tells me that the battery is bad or that it hasnt been charged in quite some time. A perfect 12v battery should read 12.6v which with the 6 cells in a 12v battery means 2.1v per cell which are internally wired in series (read above). Any reading higher than 12.6v is simply a surface charge which will diminish within a few minutes of having any charge pulling from the battery be it a light or fish finder which is called a load test. A simple way to test it is to fully charge the battery and go hook it up in the boat, turn on the fish finders and livewell for 10 minutes. Turn them off, wait another 5 minutes and then test. If it has dropped below 12.1v or 12.2v the battery is bad and needs replacing.

    I ran into this issue several years ago before I fully understood battery basics and although it would appear that it was fully charged before every outing it would consistently drop to 11v halfway through the day forcing me to do exactly what your dad is doing in turning on the motor. It left me stranded and I needed to jump off the trolling motor batteries 3 times just to get back to the dock.

   Follow the advice in this post and in the rest of the thread and you will be fine and you can sleep well at night knowing he will be in working order. Just remember, keep them charged before EVERY trip, keep an eye on them and you will be fine for several years before the batteries naturally die over time.

    If you have any questions feel free to send me a message and I will get back to you.

 

THANK YOU!!! this is exactly what I needed. I did already know about series VS parallel though. I have finally talked to my dad about the batteries, he has been on the ice for a couple of days. there are 3, 2 just for the minn-kota trolling motor (wired in parallel for 12v more amps). It sounds like he just needs a new battery this spring and a charger more than the, just in case scenario.

 

So if there 2 batteries for the trolling motor wired in parallel do I need a 3 bank charger? recommendations?

 

And I might get back to you later in the year when the ice thaws.

 

And again thanks to all for your input

[Brian Needham]

yes you need a charger bank for each battery in the boat.

 

if you have 3 batteries you need 3 bank charger.