Ardent Moving To China

[deaknh03]

and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. The Walmart buying attitude Americans have adopted is the issue. The same people who think they deserve $15 an hour to flip burgers. I have no problem paying more for a quality American made product. As I said earlier, the quality of their first run F500, which is the only style of reel I own from Ardent, and I own 2, was much better than the newer runs.

I completely agree, the consumer drives the market. I was just pointing out that they dont move to make a better product and sink more money into R&D or engineering, they move for profits.

[SirSnookalot]

It isn't just Walmart, it's every retailer buying an American product that's made elsewhere, I'd put the onus on American manufactures.  I don't believe the consumer is the driving force, but the recipient of capitalism greed, not much different than service businesses using third world workers for tech support.

[John G]

It isn't just Walmart, it's every retailer buying an American product that's made elsewhere, I'd put the onus on American manufactures.  I don't believe the consumer is the driving force, but the recipient of capitalism greed, not much different than service businesses using third world workers for tech support.

America is a very expensive place to do business in. I put the onus on the people in charge right now that are doing everything they can do to make businesses not want to do business here.

[deaknh03]

It isn't just Walmart, it's every retailer buying an American product that's made elsewhere, I'd put the onus on American manufactures. I don't believe the consumer is the driving force, but the recipient of capitalism greed, not much different than service businesses using third world workers for tech support.

consumers have the final say. If they dont buy it, the companies and/or manufacturers have to conform. Consumers are careless and "cheap" when it comes to most things, and corporations feed into that.

[smalljaw67]

Labor cost, pure and simple. We pay for our own heath insurance, the Chinese don't, we live where we want and pay bills, Chinese workers are stuck in housing units, it is only those that begin to get real money that get out of that. The average wage in China is approximately $12.00 per month for the working class, you can't afford to live here on that but here is the thing, companies are slowly coming back because the pollution is so out of control there, cost for clean water is 15 times as much as it is here. Also, since labor is so cheap other countries have been using Chinese labor and as a result the workers are now demanding higher wages. With the cost of what corporations pay to the government and the workers in exchange to use their labor, a small increase of only $2.00 dollars a day in wages make it too costly do continue manufacturing. Most corporations pay the Chinese government a fee to use the slave labor, instead of paying U.S. taxes they pay a percentage to China so they can get someone to make their product for $1.61 per month (Apple), but the rising cost of fuel and basics like clean water are making it very hard to stay in China and and increase in wages will result in a lot of manufacturing coming back. That said, Ardent had outdated designs and engineering, that's all, the reason Daiwa and Shimano have flagship models that are super expensive is because of the Japanese labor which is as costly as our own, but a lot of companies make a good product in China because they use materials from the U.S. and the only real bad you see you see is when companies use Chinese materials, their steel is far weaker and the plastics aren't anywhere near the quality of what comes out of the U.S., but labor is the driving force.

[slonezp]

Labor cost, pure and simple. We pay for our own heath insurance, the Chinese don't, we live where we want and pay bills, Chinese workers are stuck in housing units, it is only those that begin to get real money that get out of that. The average wage in China is approximately $12.00 per month for the working class, you can't afford to live here on that but here is the thing, companies are slowly coming back because the pollution is so out of control there, cost for clean water is 15 times as much as it is here. Also, since labor is so cheap other countries have been using Chinese labor and as a result the workers are now demanding higher wages. With the cost of what corporations pay to the government and the workers in exchange to use their labor, a small increase of only $2.00 dollars a day in wages make it too costly do continue manufacturing. Most corporations pay the Chinese government a fee to use the slave labor, instead of paying U.S. taxes they pay a percentage to China so they can get someone to make their product for $1.61 per month (Apple), but the rising cost of fuel and basics like clean water are making it very hard to stay in China and and increase in wages will result in a lot of manufacturing coming back. That said, Ardent had outdated designs and engineering, that's all, the reason Daiwa and Shimano have flagship models that are super expensive is because of the Japanese labor which is as costly as our own, but a lot of companies make a good product in China because they use materials from the U.S. and the only real bad you see you see is when companies use Chinese materials, their steel is far weaker and the plastics aren't anywhere near the quality of what comes out of the U.S., but labor is the driving force.

If the American working class could keep more of their earnings to spend on what we choose, I believe things could change for the beter in our economy. People could afford to pay a little more for an American made product and American jobs could be created. Too many people have their hands in the till

[SirSnookalot]

If the American working class could keep more of their earnings to spend on what we choose, I believe things could change for the beter in our economy. People could afford to pay a little more for an American made product and American jobs could be created. Too many people have their hands in the till

As it stands federal, state, county and municipalities don't have enough revenue.  Even if Americans had more disposable income, American business will still operate as they are doing now.  Between loopholes, tax havens, and promotion of offshore investments that have been going on for many years, the system is rigged for the wealthy and against the middle class, it's always been that way and always will be.  Middle class incomes have been flat lining for decades while corporate and executive incomes have been soaring.

[roadwarrior]

We're getting pretty close to the line gentlemen. I realize politics is big part of this type of discussion, 

but we have a long standing policy that everyone is aware of. So, I think we are just about to the end

of this thread.

 

-Kent

[frogflogger]

I've fished an ardent 1000s since they came out - guided or fished 250 days a year with it for two years - still have it - works good, casts good - sorry they're moving

[Avaitor63]

I just got the Ardent Edge Pro. Has anyone heard anything about this reel.Thanks

[Tywithay]

As a person that works for a major manufacturing company, it's not just cost sending our jobs overseas. There's a real lack of skilled labor. Manufacturing is not a sexy job. If you hire entry-level skills, you get entry-level work. This drives up costs for rework, overtime, etc. The people that have talent want to be paid. There's a fine line between overpaying and under skilled. A lot of the Asian countries have an influx of skilled workers that will work for far less than a comparable American.

[wrat]

I am sorry about this I really would have liked to see ardent keep "made in usa"  as is for me "made in china" = NO SALE..

as an aside I still have BPS gear that has "made in usa" on the package

[HoosierHawgs]

This may be a good thing. They're Apex series of reels are made in China and are head and shoulders above their American made models.

[F14A-B]

The Zombie thread... It's undead!

[FloridaFishinFool]

Just an FYI, US Reels aren't made in the US.  US Reel shipped production overseas years ago for the same reason as Ardent.

 

I was going to say the same thing. Fred Kemp who started U.S. Reel did not take too long before sending his production to China. And I would suspect this might be why Ray Scott severed ties with the company he helped to develop their patented large diameter spools on their spinning reels to be used on Ray Scott's Kistler made rod line. Something certainly soured that relationship real fast. Ray Scott is not even mentioned on the U.S. Reel website any longer and has been wiped out of the company's history from their perspective anyways. You can still read about it on Ray Scott's website where he is not trying to hide it.

 

And it was because of Ray Scott's recommendation I even bought two of the U.S. Reel's top of their line SuperCasters, but after using them only one time I sold them as fast as I could get rid of them. Not a quality product. Choosing to name the company U.S. Reel and then turn around and make them in China was kind of, well, irritating to say the least.

 

I see now that Bass Pro is selling and marketing large diameter spools based on Fred Kemp's patented idea on some of their spinning reels too. And no telling who else is doing it, so I have to wonder how much income Fred Kemp is raking in on just this one patented idea alone that he can keep as his property to profit from even if he sells the U.S. Reel company. And I would bet if he does sell U.S. Reel that it will become another Chinese owned company. Who else would buy it? Pure Fishing maybe? Bass Pro? This one will be interesting to follow.

[HoosierHawgs]

So that's the reel that Jimmy Houston used to use on his show! I couldn't figure it out because they didn't look like any reel on the market today... He's since moved on to Shimano... I don't see anyone buying US reel then, they must be years behind the rest of the fishing industry... They're casting reels like like something that was made 20-30 years ago..

[Blues19]

I met the President of Ardent at the Spring Classic at the St. Charles (St. Louis) Bass Pro, when their first reel came out. I heard at least 5-6 people in half an hour tell him they would buy the reel just cause it was American made. And sure enough they did buy it.  I was young and couldnt afford the $250 price.  SO with the reel trade in, he said he would give me $40 to help buy the reel, in exchange for an email telling him how i liked it after I used it.  He said he was sure I would be a customer for life if I tried it. The other Bass Pro guys at the reel counter were raving over the casting ability of the reel so  I figured, with such a good deal, I would give that reel a go.  At the end of they day the only other reel i was interested in was the Curado and SHimano didnt participate in the reel exchange so i decided to give Ardent a try. First outing I found out the drag was stripped. Sent it to them, got it back and its been a pleasure to use since. Thats been like 7years ago. Something like that. Its been great. Love the profile and especially the knobs on the handle.  I have not since purchased another reel from them though. Partly cause the next reel I got was when I was on my college fishing club and we were sponsered by Daiwa.  Sad to see them moving from MO to China.  Oh well.

[pbizzle]

Guys were talking about their old heavy models that looked like 3rd grade pencil sharpeners right and not their new Apex series, right?

[Tywithay]

Guys were talking about their old heavy models that looked like 3rd grade pencil sharpeners right and not their new Apex series, right?

The Apex reels are the Chinese reels. The old ugly Edge series were the last of the USA made Ardents.