A Little Random Knowledge

[Raider Nation Fisher]

I was perusing the interweb today. Reading about nuclear reactions, nuclear reactors, and doing more research on Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. When a thought occured to me. How hot would the molten uranium in a core mass from a meltdown have to be to melt through concrete? Well I think I found an answer that does a good job of describing a total meltdown leading to China Syndrome. Its actually an extremely interesting article.

http://www.cavendishscience.org/bks/nuc/quests.htm

[Grizzn N Bassin]

that blue..................

[roadwarrior]

Wow!  My head hurts.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Aww come on fellas. Yall know its fascinating. The amount of heat continuously given off by a single element over a long period of time.

At least I haven't started bringing up radioactive decay and the formation of new isotopes from the decay of a different isotope.

[slonezp]

Shouldn't you be working?

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Shouldn't you be working?

I'm having a helluva time with that. Ct. got put off until the 18th. Now Its been out off until after January. I'm talking to two different companies right now. One has work in Alabama and the Florida keys. The other has work in Arkansas, North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, and Arizona.

I'm torn between Key West and North Dakota currently.

[.ghoti.]

If you're seriously thinking about N Dakota, at this time of year, you, sir are seriously disturbed. It's a cold, coming, as you do, from Alabama, you simply can't fathom.

 

Besides, none of you southern boys know how to drive up here. And that's a fact.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

If you're seriously thinking about N Dakota, at this time of year, you, sir are seriously disturbed. It's a cold, coming, as you do, from Alabama, you simply can't fathom.

 

Besides, none of you southern boys know how to drive up here. And that's a fact.

For the $5004.32 a week after taxes, the job is paying. I will be more than happy to learn how to freeze my butt off. Plus ain't no driving involved. I'm given transportation to and from the jobsite(s). Still, I would learn how to drive in the snow for that kinda money too.

[slonezp]

Hell, I'd do it for $5004.31 and I already know how to drive in the snow

[retiredbosn]

If you're seriously thinking about N Dakota, at this time of year, you, sir are seriously disturbed. It's a cold, coming, as you do, from Alabama, you simply can't fathom.

Besides, none of you southern boys know how to drive up here. And that's a fact.

Think he has ever seen it so cold that when u breathe through your nose everything freezes. Snot freezing cold is no fun.

[Helluva_Engineer]

I was perusing the interweb today. Reading about nuclear reactions, nuclear reactors, and doing more research on Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. When a thought occured to me. How hot would the molten uranium in a core mass from a meltdown have to be to melt through concrete? Well I think I found an answer that does a good job of describing a total meltdown leading to China Syndrome. Its actually an extremely interesting article.

http://www.cavendishscience.org/bks/nuc/quests.htm

 

Something that the article does a poor job of explaining is that nuclear reactors are designed with many different layers of defense in order to mitigate the consequences of an accident. They also fail to account for the energy required to breach the fuel assemblies, reactor pressure vessel, the fact that there is typically a primary and secondary containment, and of course dissipation of heat to the environment even if we completely ignore any plant safety systems. So, while the article says that a meltdown cannot be ruled out as a possible consequence of a LOCA, plants are specifically designed for these events and each plant has an analysis which demonstrates the reactor response to a LOCA and other transients. Plants are fully capable of safely shutting down during a LOCA event with no human intervention. In fact, Three Mile Island would've never been an accident if the Operators hadn't overridden the automatic plant response. There have been many NRC regulations throughout the years which have introduced the concept of Beyond-Design-Basis events which our plants are compliant with which make the plants even more safe. Due to the Fukushima event, US plants are expanding the current Station Blackout (SBO) response in order to ensure that plants are capable of safely shutting down during an Extended Loss of AC Power (ELAP). 

 

I'll spare my rant, but I think it is important to note that the Tsunami which triggered the Fukushima event was a severe enough event that there were over 18,500 dead or missing in one of the most advanced countries in the world and exactly 0 deaths are or will be attributed to radiation. Furthermore, the Japanese did not have measures in place which are required in the US that would have kept the plant in a safe condition. The plant responded exactly as expected during the given conditions (I happened to be in the office running a similar analysis for another BWR when the event happened) which could be seen as a success of the design of a very very outdated reactor. Speaking of outdated reactor designs, Chernobyl didn't even have a containment building. It's scary how lax the Russians were with their early era plants, it NEVER would happen here.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Something that the article does a poor job of explaining is that nuclear reactors are designed with many different layers of defense in order to mitigate the consequences of an accident. So, while the article says that a meltdown cannot be ruled out as a possible consequence of a LOCA, plants are specifically designed for these events and each plant has an analysis which demonstrates the reactor response to a LOCA and other transients. Plants are fully capable of safely shutting down during a LOCA event with no human intervention. In fact, Three Mile Island would've never been an accident if the Operators hadn't overridden the automatic plant response. There have been many NRC regulations throughout the years which have introduced the concept of Beyond-Design-Basis events which our plants are compliant with which make the plants even more safe. Due to the Fukushima event, US plants are expanding the current Station Blackout (SBO) response in order to ensure that plants are capable of safely shutting down during an Extended Loss of AC Power (ELAP). 

 

I'll spare my rant, but I think it is important to note that the Tsunami which triggered the Fukushima event was a severe enough event that there were over 18,500 dead or missing in one of the most advanced countries in the world and exactly 0 deaths are or will be attributed to radiation. Furthermore, the Japanese did not have measures in place which are required in the US that would have kept the plant in a safe condition. The plant responded exactly as expected during the given conditions (I happened to be in the office running a similar analysis for another BWR when the event happened) which could be seen as a success of the design of a very very outdated reactor. Speaking of outdated reactor designs, Chernobyl didn't even have a containment building. It's scary how lax the Russians were with their early era plants, it NEVER would happen here.

I actually read two articles a few hours ago. One was talking about different safety devices and building techniques on some different reactors. The other was a in depth but more simplified explanation of what happened and is happening at Fukushima. Both were quite interesting.

Three Mile Island I have only began reading about in the past two days or so.

Chernobyl on the other hand has fascinated me for years. Not only the dusaster but also whats become of the villages and people that were in the vicinity.

[Helluva_Engineer]

Did you watch Pandora's promise? I wouldn't consider it the end all, but it was a worthwhile watch as far as trying to put into perspective the different events. They even showed that, for the most part, it's ok to still live near chernobyl. It was psychological why people left. Heck, they still kept operating the other units at that site for years afterwards.

 

A lot of people don't realize it, but the typical coal power plant emits much more radiation than a safely operating nuclear plant. It's hard to say exactly how much radiation was released during the fukushima event, but depending upon who you trust it's anywhere between less than the yearly radiation release of worldwide coal production and 1/4 of the radiation release of a single coal plant. 

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Did you watch Pandora's promise? I wouldn't consider it the end all, but it was a worthwhile watch as far as trying to put into perspective the different events. They even showed that, for the most part, it's ok to still live near chernobyl. It was psychological why people left. Heck, they still kept operating the other units at that site for years afterwards.

 

A lot of people don't realize it, but the typical coal power plant emits much more radiation than a safely operating nuclear plant. It's hard to say exactly how much radiation was released during the fukushima event, but depending upon who you trust it's anywhere between less than the yearly radiation release of worldwide coal production and 1/4 of the radiation release of a single coal plant.

Ain't seen that yet. Definitely putting it on my list though.

I remember reading a USA Today article on the Chernobyl Babushkas. Its about a group of people that returned to the exclusion zone a few years after the accident. Now its mainly 70-90 year old women left living there. I'm gonna try an post it on here tomorrow morning.

From what I've read Fukushima didn't release tons of radiation. Seems that most the safe guards worked. I did not know that about the radiation from coal power plants. Thats interesting. You have got me curious about that now.

[aceman387]

I was perusing the interweb today. Reading about nuclear reactions, nuclear reactors, and doing more research on Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. When a thought occured to me. How hot would the molten uranium in a core mass from a meltdown have to be to melt through concrete? Well I think I found an answer that does a good job of describing a total meltdown leading to China Syndrome. Its actually an extremely interesting article.

http://www.cavendishscience.org/bks/nuc/quests.htm

im still trying to figure out the square root of a triangle and now you expect me to understand this.  

[Raider Nation Fisher]

im still trying to figure out the square root of a triangle and now you expect me to understand this.  

Ive given up on the triangle. Thats so far out of realm of knowledge it ain't funny.

Now this on the other hand. I may not completely understand it, but I want to. I even checked out some library books on it. I also borrowed my SIL's old chemistry book to try an figure it out. I've even enlisted my sisters friend (she is pre med and also majoring in chemistry) to try an help me out.

[Bankbeater]

Naught plus naught is naught.