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  • Super User
Posted

That meat is long gone. I'm willing to bet there was a huge cookout that night.

This problem transcends race and social status. Which is worse. The opportunist that raided the Wal-Mart's? Or the Wall Street bankers that stole billions? There are good and bad in all of society. These people saw an opportunity and took advantage of it. Its human nature. Its how they and everyone else was brought up. I'm not saying everyone was raised to lie cheat and steal. I'm saying they saw a chance to get a leg up and they went for it. If you saw a armored car wrecked in the median and cash laying everywhere. Would you stop to grab some? These bankers stole billions of dollars and crashed the economy. Half got raises and a slap on the wrist. They saw an opportunity and went for it as well. The problem lies in people as a whole. Not in social class.

  • Like 1
  • Super User
Posted

I guess it's up to those of us with kids to change all that.

  • Like 2
  • Super User
Posted

That meat is long gone. I'm willing to bet there was a huge cookout that night.

This problem transcends race and social status. Which is worse. The opportunist that raided the Wal-Mart's? Or the Wall Street bankers that stole billions? There are good and bad in all of society. These people saw an opportunity and took advantage of it. Its human nature. Its how they and everyone else was brought up. I'm not saying everyone was raised to lie cheat and steal. I'm saying they saw a chance to get a leg up and they went for it. If you saw a armored car wrecked in the median and cash laying everywhere. Would you stop to grab some? These bankers stole billions of dollars and crashed the economy. Half got raises and a slap on the wrist. They saw an opportunity and went for it as well. The problem lies in people as a whole. Not in social class.

I never knew you were a philosopher.

  • Like 1
  • Super User
Posted

I never knew you were a philosopher.

I took a course or two before getting thrown out of college. ;)

I was majoring in philosophy with a plan to go into corporate law. Heh. Oh well.

  • Super User
Posted

No offense, but I put a bit more time into this topic than just my trips to a store. Don't let the beard fool you. :grin:

 

I agree that there are improvements that can be made to any system, assistance programs especially. All we can constructively do is continue to address the problems and unfortunately, HOPE, that someone at a higher pay grade makes the changes. While BR has a ton of members, anyone who has the ability is not coming on here to seek out ideas for welfare reform.

 

Blowing off steam about an upsetting situation is understandable. I get hot under the collar. I want my complaints to be heard. Complaining to the people on a bass forum merely amounts to "biching" (yes, I know it's not spelled correctly LOL) and while it may feel good to get it off your chest, does nothing really for furthering any real change.

Nicely said. I am having trouble looking at your avatar and picturing you saying these words.  :smiley:

  • Super User
Posted

Don't judge a book by its cover. ;)

 

My depth is rooted in facial hair.

  • Like 1
Posted

Technically the people didn't steal anything. Wal-mart let the people check out and walk out of the store.

That's a big difference from pushing a shopping cart clear past the cashier.

  • Super User
Posted

Technically the people didn't steal anything. Wal-mart let the people check out and walk out of the store.

That's a big difference from pushing a shopping cart clear past the cashier.

 

Technically, they knew they didn't have enough "free" money to pay for the food.

 

Therefore, in my mind they stole the food. Whether it be from Wal-Mart, the state, the feds, or whoever. They knew  good and well they didn't have enough funds and that is why they cleared the shelves.

  • Like 2
  • Super User
Posted

Technically the people didn't steal anything. Wal-mart let the people check out and walk out of the store.

That's a big difference from pushing a shopping cart clear past the cashier.

If a bank makes an error in your favor, the money needs to be paid back. They can prosecute you if it isn't.

  • Like 1
  • Super User
Posted · Hidden by J Francho, October 17, 2013 - Content removed.
Hidden by J Francho, October 17, 2013 - Content removed.

POS low life scum if you really want my opinion.

 

No, I really don't want your opinion if you can't do it in an intelligent and civil way.

  • Super User
Posted

This is old but: http://www.khou.com/news/local/Lucky-customers-get-1-gas-after-computer-glitch-at-Pasadena-Conoco-station-146797095.html

 

Freaking animals! It amuses me that some of the people being dishonest about gas station error are probably the same people that would complain about the story that got this thread started, am I right?!?!?!?!

 

Money, the root of all evil.

 

Regardless of any situation, dishonesty is dishonesty. Human errors are inevitable, taking advantage of them is dishonesty. I can go on further rant about this, but will instead let it go and let karma catches up to people in all social class.

Posted

Root Beer, I agree with that...... it is simply amazing the amount of people that scheme and plot to take advantage. How these people justify taking something that is not their's as being right is beyond me. I dont care if it is a "normal " oerson on the street, welfare fraud, or a major, nationwide business firm.

 

Somehow we have to steer ourselves back to knowing right from wrong, and its going to be a long, windy road for many people.

 

I will say, money is not the root of all evil, but the LOVE/LUST for money is.

  • BassResource.com Administrator
Posted

No offense, but I put a bit more time into this topic than just my trips to a store. Don't let the beard fool you. :grin:

 

I agree that there are improvements that can be made to any system, assistance programs especially. All we can constructively do is continue to address the problems and unfortunately, HOPE, that someone at a higher pay grade makes the changes. While BR has a ton of members, anyone who has the ability is not coming on here to seek out ideas for welfare reform.

 

Blowing off steam about an upsetting situation is understandable. I get hot under the collar. I want my complaints to be heard. Complaining to the people on a bass forum merely amounts to "biching" (yes, I know it's not spelled correctly LOL) and while it may feel good to get it off your chest, does nothing really for furthering any real change.

 

^^  TRUTH ^^

  • Super User
Posted

I apologize if something I said last night was taken the wrong way.

 

I have no problem with people on Govt. assistance that need it.

 

I DO however have a BIG problem with thieves. I'm sorry if people thought I was talking bad about those on food stamps, I was referring to thieves.

 

If you are a thief, I don't apologize to you. ;)

  • Like 1
Posted

I didn't see anything you said being misspoken.

 

 

I think everyone wants the people who need, helped.

 

But when you roll up to the WIC store/wal mart with an EBT card/pay $8 in rent  driving an Escalade, talking on an Iphone, wearing the newest Nikes you either:

 

A. don't need help

B. don't need help 

 

that's who I have/am rail on

 

See it everyday here.

In fact, I have had people (long time ago) come ask for a job and I tell them I am full, they straight out say "I aint wantin no job anyway."

They were just looking for their weekly contact.

SMH

 

 

ok, I am going back to talk about fishing now..... I think all the wheels of this shopping cart has fallen off now, see ya in the jig thread! LOL.

  • Super User
Posted

I said something that was taken the wrong way, it has been deleted and I have been warned. I didn't mean to step on toes.

 

I only do that in the SEC threads ;)

  • Super User
Posted

In my own opinion way too much has been made out of this story.  I don't condone abusing any system but the the harsh reality is that it happens on all levels.  Money is the root of all evil and people will take advantage of an opportunity when given the chance.  This behavior spans thru all social groups, income levels and businesses of all types.  It would be impossible to name them all, but just a few, Dr's coding procedures to take advantage of insurance companies, in fact there are courses on how to do it.  Multi billion dollar corps. getting "welfare".  My recent flood, insurance is considering giving me new kitchen cabinets where the damage is really minimal, you bet I'll take new ones if I have the opportunity. Banks and credit card co's charging some crazy and unreasonable fees, legal yes, do we like it, no but next to nothing can be done about, and let's not forget derivatives.  Quite true people abuse the welfare system, IMO it's a drop in the bucket compared to the overall chicanery going on, this story really is only about a handfull of people.  I'm not passing judgement, I'm not that perfect either.

I've lived a long time and in both my private life as well as my business one when I hear the words "trust me", "don't worry about a thing", I'm an honest businessman", that's when I do start to worry.  Was I an honest businessman, absolutely not, nor was anyone else in the same business, opportunity presents itself it's human nature to take advantage.  Yes, money is the root of all evil !

  • Like 2
  • Super User
Posted

In my own opinion way too much has been made out of this story.  I don't condone abusing any system but the the harsh reality is that it happens on all levels.  Money is the root of all evil and people will take advantage of an opportunity when given the chance.  This behavior spans thru all social groups, income levels and businesses of all types.  It would be impossible to name them all, but just a few, Dr's coding procedures to take advantage of insurance companies, in fact there are courses on how to do it.  Multi billion dollar corps. getting "welfare".  My recent flood, insurance is considering giving me new kitchen cabinets where the damage is really minimal, you bet I'll take new ones if I have the opportunity. Banks and credit card co's charging some crazy and unreasonable fees, legal yes, do we like it, no but next to nothing can be done about, and let's not forget derivatives.  Quite true people abuse the welfare system, IMO it's a drop in the bucket compared to the overall chicanery going on, this story really is only about a handfull of people.  I'm not passing judgement, I'm not that perfect either.

I've lived a long time and in both my private life as well as my business one when I hear the words "trust me", "don't worry about a thing", I'm an honest businessman", that's when I do start to worry.  Was I an honest businessman, absolutely not, nor was anyone else in the same business, opportunity presents itself it's human nature to take advantage.  Yes, money is the root of all evil !

Change those words to "it's acceptable".

We have been conditioned to think "Well, if everybody else does it, then it must be ok." 

  • Like 1
  • Super User
Posted

Change those words to "it's acceptable".

We have been conditioned to think "Well, if everybody else does it, then it must be ok." 

Your words not mine.  Whether one accepts it or not the fact is that he does happen.

  • Super User
Posted

I (like Speedbead) work in this field.  I'm a Fraud Investigator...

 

The individual states have records of the EBT usage, often down to the second and even if it's just a swipe and the transaction doesn't happen. 

For there to be a recoupment there has to be a violation on the applicant/recipient's part:

   Reporting (misreporting) information that effects eligibility for the program (IE baby daddy DOES live there and works, or your kids are away at college and you don't report them gone, etc.).

   You sell your EBT card.

   You have duplicate benefits (live in Albany NY then go to North Adams MA to get benefits, then a quick road trip up to Bennington VT then home with 3 states giving you benefits). 

 

IF the system for reading the cards was broken and Walmart allowed this, Walmart will eat it minus whatever the actual benefit amount on each person's card at the time of the transaction.  If the state even tried to go after the people there would be appeals and hearing on their behalf from many legal aid groups.  The cost of just preparing for the appeal would negate any money recouped.  I see this sort of thing ALL the time and some things that are MUCH worse.

 

Generational Pre-Disposition

Ease of access (IE really easy to get these benefits)

Politically VALUABLE to have many on benefits regardless of their actions ($200 of Mountain Dew ...  seriously)

THESE are the biggest issues.

  • Super User
Posted

When my last job hired me thirty years ago they gave me a company credit card and sent me on the road to do testing in Yonkers,NY. Being next to new York city I was a hick country boy in a zoo of people. I was able to go home on weekends but I spent my weekends at my camp in wilds of Vermont with my family. I was much happier with no power, no phone service, no running water. We bathed in the fresh cold mountain springs/rivers were we went tubing too. We heard the yotes howling at night and the bears hooting too. Occasionally our resident moose came by too. Funny I felt better and safer with the animals in Vermont than with certain people in New York city area. I'm just a kid from New Jersey who grew up as a country bumpkin when we moved to the country. I wouldn't change anything. I did find out that I could be accepted in any way of life by changing my clothes. I have to laugh at that.

I never shop on black fridays at all I hate the crowds. Just mention a blue light special and tons of people will trample each other to get there.

I'm much safer in Vermont feeding captain crunch peanut butter cereal to the chipmunks there. They don't rush. Each one takes what it can carry. Not one fights over anything. They seem to have respect for each other. We can learn from the wild animals.

My oldest son was getting married and they mentioned a tuxedo? To me a Tennessee tuxedo is what hillbilly Jim the wrestler wore that's a tuxedo to me. Kidding but I did wear a penguin suit for a few hours. I wanted to wear my farmall tractor tee shirt underneath my dress shirt and vest so I wouldn't feel out of place. Tuxedo your kidding me right, they weren't kidding.

Posted

  I see this sort of thing ALL the time and some things that are MUCH worse.

 

.

 

you are correct, one doesn't have to be a case worker to see it.

 

I really appreciate your post, and the insight given.

 

The main question is: Why are more people not removed from the roles for the violations you listed, as they are easy to see and catch.

Seems to me nobody wants the catch anyone. If I can see it beyond doubt, then why cant a fraud investigator?

I am not taking a personal shot at you with that statement, I am asking. Is it as simple as it is more politically benifitical  to turn a blind eye?

 

Example: Baby Daddy lives in the house. This is one of the most common I see. Dude has a job or is a drug dealer but does not marry the girl so she can get $8/ month rent or free housing/EBT/WIC/huge income tax returns , yet sleeps there EVERY night. I have seen this COUNTLESS times.

Hence the phrase: "where you stay at?"

 

 

You dont have to work in the field like you and speedbead to see that one and other infractions.

 

Many may think I am uninformed on the topic(or as I been told here), but I am not......I been offered SS #s at tax time, EBT cards for sale, Food stamps for cash (back when they looked like "money"), WIC.....I know what time it is, and you can call, letters anything you want but nothing ever happens.

 

Again, I enjoyed your post, and look forward to further insight...... can continue via PM or even the phone if you rather. Topics as these produce WAY too much typing sometimes.

  • Super User
Posted

Writing this on a phone ...

We have civil liberties and due process.

Guy in your example could claim he's not the biological father and just acting as a good guy. Or his mom will testify he's living with her. (Hence my generational point). I can't sit out there for days on end, neighbors aren't always reliable due to their own character issues . I cannot shove a q-tip in his mouth and do a DNA test to prove he's lying. (If they aren't married and no proof he's dad, then they are not breaking any rules. He's more or less a roommate) . Hence my statement about ease of access.

Fact is benefits do add to the economy even if it is unseemly to many. Hell I joke that pot dealers are a boon for the economy! PS3's, Bose stereos, tricked out toys and delivered food for as far as the eye can see! (Generating sales and income taxes that wouldn't have been there.)

The rules are clear and we have to follow them. As far as "seeing it" if the person/store are not reported to the respective state's auditor or fraud hot line nobody can do anything. You have no idea the numbers of calls I MUST follow up on from some upset person (someones ex, nosey neighbor, etc.) That reports so and so is ripping the system off and in reality they aren't even on benefits or are reporting everything the complaint said and still eligible. THAT clogs things up. If the identity of "some guy/girl " isn't known we cannot initiate an investigation.

People do get removed 1 year for first, 3 years second , lifetime for third, 10 years for duplicate. What isn't considered is that it's just that one person being banned, if the household has children, etc. They will still (most of the time) be eligible. So the household just gets less. THIS IS GOOD because say that banned person owes us $1000. There's little chance we'll effectively recoup that with payments (blood from a stone), BUT we can take 10% of the benefits they are eligible for and use that to pay off the $1000.

(I can only see / remember so much of your post so please pardon me if I didn't address everything.

Political issue : if you live in a poor district you (politicians) want to cover your base so you use the fact that x% is on benefits and you need more economic stimulus in your area. If you are in an affluent area you can ensure your caring image by supporting those in need and ensure babies get fed. You can also do the cut entitlements argument in areas that have a large population on benefits (appeal to the frustrated) . Theeeeeeen you get elected andpm me anytime! all the promises get cut or bogged down BUT you can keep using the preferred position next time!

you are correct, one doesn't have to be a case worker to see it.

I really appreciate your post, and the insight given.

The main question is: Why are more people not removed from the roles for the violations you listed, as they are easy to see and catch.

Seems to me nobody wants the catch anyone. If I can see it beyond doubt, then why cant a fraud investigator?

I am not taking a personal shot at you with that statement, I am asking. Is it as simple as it is more politically benifitical to turn a blind eye?

Example: Baby Daddy lives in the house. This is one of the most common I see. Dude has a job or is a drug dealer but does not marry the girl so she can get $8/ month rent or free housing/EBT/WIC/huge income tax returns , yet sleeps there EVERY night. I have seen this COUNTLESS times.

Hence the phrase: "where you stay at?"

You dont have to work in the field like you and speedbead to see that one and other infractions.

Many may think I am uninformed on the topic(or as I been told here), but I am not......I been offered SS #s at tax time, EBT cards for sale, Food stamps for cash (back when they looked like "money"), WIC.....I know what time it is, and you can call, letters anything you want but nothing ever happens.

Again, I enjoyed your post, and look forward to further insight...... can continue via PM or even the phone if you rather. Topics as these produce WAY too much typing sometimes.

Posted

Fair Enough , Webertime.

 

 

I thought that would be the case. I suppose we have been relegated to a society by technicality. 

 

I am more than thankful for our civil liberties and due process, and more thankful for those who have provided them. I guess it still all boils down to right and wrong with me. People take advantage of our great freedoms to do bad, not good, and its sad.

 

Thanks for the explanation, it is about what I expected. And believe it or not, whether you agree with me or not, I really don't think we are far apart in mindset.

 

thanks again.........got go rig tackle.   

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