High Priced Rods & Sensitivity. Would You Call It Necessary?

[DelcoSol]

I was just wondering this as well. Currently I went from an Abu Garcia Veritas that I couldn't detect a bite at all to a Duckett White Ice. The duckett is much more sensitive but I keep reading how everyone loves Dobyns and am curious about them. Will it be more sensitive than the Duckett? Is the Champion Extreme worth the extra cash over the Champion? Anyone in the PA area want to let me try theirs out? lol

[jeb2]

To go against the high dollar point, I recently purchased a steez flipping stick and found it to be no more sensitive and much less balanced than my champion 736c but more than double the price. Turned around and sold it almost immediately even though I really wanted to like it.

Yeah, the Steez rods are not generally considered near the top of the list for sensitivity, from what I've read on the forums.

[jeb2]

Is my nrx 2x the rod as my cumara or 2x as sensitive. Probably not. However I can feel the difference. In deep water or very windy conditions sometimes that extra bit of sensitivity gives you an advantage. Always buy the best you can afford, take care of your gear so that when the time comes, you can sell it and use the money for an upgrade.

It's hard to quantify how much better one is than another. Saying twice as sensitive, or something like, has no meaning to me. All I can say is one is more sensitive than the other. All that means is *I* can notice the difference. But I can't quantify it. And I don't need to, at least for me. If I can feel a difference, that's all that really matters to me. Maybe someone else would not noitice it. And that's cool. We're all different.

[FD.]

I have rods ranging from St Croix Legends to Berkely lightning rods and would have to say my favorite rod is the Abu Verdict for about $130.  It is lightweight and very sensitive and the price allows you to have 2 for the price of I high end rod.  I break several rods a year either on hook sets or in the rod locker and it's not nearly as painful when replacement costs are around $100.

[kickerfish1]

Jeb2,

I think much of what you said is true. Quantifying something that is not measured by a standard is difficult to pinpoint where as something like a MPG in the automotive industry or something as simple as the weight of an object is something that can be put into numbers. Today's rod manufacturers measure graphite on tonnage, modulous, I-M, and various forms of weave and carbon materials. Various resins, guides, finishing components, etc... all factor into the sensitivity of the rod in its finished form. Add various kinds of paint, unnecessary weight, and bling to the rod and you may lose a degree of sensitivity.

As you noted everything becomes subjective. The users fishing experience and their hands ability to detect vibration also complicates things. Some guys have "dead" hands while others have a quick trigger and can feel bites early and often.

Also as you mentioned folks can aslo note a rod being more sensitive than another but have no way of measuring how much more. When I think of what a good sensitive rod I think of amplification of vibration. I can feel a fish bite on a $100 rod but that bite seems amplified on a higher end rod. As I noted earlier I want that increased amplification when I am fishing deep, in windy conditions, or when its frigid and I am wearing gloves in 30-50 degree days.

Sensitivity is easy yet complex when discussions come up.

[Diggy]

Im going to install a sensometer on all my rods to see which is the best!!!

 

I always thought this review was hilarious from TW

 

Just received the 7'6" XH Nano.  WOW! I thought the Co Matrix was sensitive, but this rod is incredible. The Megaphone technology sounds good but I was skeptical on how effective it really was.  I can tell you this:  This rod is so sensitive, I was able to clearly feel a distinct "Hum" vibration being transmitted through the rod that was picked up by the TM on low at the other end of the boat.  Incredible. 

[Hooligan]

Necessary, no. Not at all.

Advantageous? Absolutely.

I am an avid proponent of higher end gear for those that want it to up their game. It will do that. That said, it isn't going to be an overnight things. It takes time and experience to learn what you're feeling, how to delineate those signals, if you will. A good example is moving from an IMX rod to an NRX. Huge difference between the two, and it may take some time to tell the difference between them. The other thing, many, many anglers will never be able to tell the difference between their ugly stick and the NRX. They simply don't possess the feel and understanding to do anything other than know the weight is different between them. Many people just won't ever be able to really feel the difference, and that's fine, too.

[lmbfisherman]

I'm an owner of mostly mid-priced rods. Which I consider about $150 or so. 

 

Has anyone owned and used both really expensive ($300-$600) rods as well as mid priced rods and can compare them on sensitivity? Are they 2-3x as sensitive? I'm not talking about build quality or lightness, just raw fish bite detection. 

 

I'm really looking for an unbiased judgement. I realize there's a ton of good reasons pay for the pricier gear beyond sensitivity, I'm just trying to gauge for myself if I should pay 2x+ the price for my worm/jig/flip rods where I want sensitivity to catch more fish.

 

Owners of the pricier rods, would you deem them essential for yourself and your fishing performance, or a nice-to-be-able-to-afford-quality kind of thing?

I was using a lot of mid range rods before I made the jump this year to the GLX and Cumulus rods. 

 

Here is why I'd continue to buy them.

 

1. Very sensitive, but can't tell you if it is 2x..well I will say though that there is a noticeable difference when I fish them for bottom contact.  Which is where I think it makes the most sense to spend money on if you buy an expensive rod for these techniques.  (Jigs, plastics.etc)  My highest end rod before I made the jump to a GLX was a Cumara Gen1. 

2. As others stated they are awesome to fish with, when I first used my GLX it was like it was part of my arm, it felt natural. 

3. All of my high end rods have been bought on sale or some kind of deal off.

 

I will say this, you don't have to spend GLX/NRX/Legend Extreme/Champion Extreme to get a jump up from 100-200 dollar rods, I think Cumara level is where you start seeing a difference.  In the end though it is up to you if you think it's worth buying that level.  However, you can find some rods that perform just as well...imo one of the best bang for your bucks all around.  (Sensitivity, price and comfort that feels like higher end) - The Fenwick lines - Elite Tech and Aetos have impressed me a lot.  Both rods imo fish like high end rods.  Especially the Aetos. 

[chase102798]

I used to fish rods in the $100-200 dollar range exclusively for years. The first time I had a custom Kistler Z-bone jig rod built, it changed everything for me. Now I have 5.

 

I still use rods in the $100-200 dollar range, but for different things. In that range, the Kistler KLX is the best I have found.

 

I use the mid-priced KLX for Frogs, Cranks, spinnerbaits, chatterbaits, topwater.

 

I use the high end Z-bones for Jigs, T-rigs, Senkos, shakey heads, drop shot.

 

I am extremely happy with the balance points on the KLX for rods in this price range. Other brands in this range can sometimes be tip heavy. Split grips just makes that situation worse. I prefer full cork rear, no front. That was the motivation behind my first custom z.

 

The Z's are just crazy light, they are made with Gary Loomis's top end blanks (which can be bought raw from NFC). And yes, they are impressively sensitive. Other guys who have used my rods while fishing with me have realized there is a certain learning curve due to the fact that no matter what line they used, they were false hook setting on all kinds of stuff that they didn't distinguish between with their other rods. Not that they didn't feel something there, its just that the ability to detect sudtle movements was intensified with the z's and they mistook those feelings for bites. You begin to develop the ability to read the bottom like sonar. Distinguishing between bottom compositions, debris, and actual fish. I was able to do this somewhat before, but it really dials you in with a light, sensitive, balanced rod. However, this takes time with your rod. You really notice it when you go back to a lower end rod. Also, due to the lack of fiberglass in the blank, the way the rod loads just has to be experienced to appreciate. I remember talking to Lance, Kistler's rod builder, and the best way he could describe it was that it has a crisp and responsive feel that isn't found in other rods. That's about right on the money. 

 

I used to attach and epoxy balance kits to rods, but I stopped doing that. The whole rod got heavier and all I was doing was trying to turn an average rod into a really good rod. If you buy a really good rod, chances are it will be balanced right, or you should shop around for one that is. I know a lot of guys say that a rod feels lighter in the hand when it is balanced, which is true when initially picking it up. But bottom line is you still have to hold that rod up in the air. Adding 2 ozs of brass weights to a rod is just 2 more ounces you have to hold up. I learned this lesson backpacking. No matter how well distributed your gear is (which is important), you still have to carry it all. Makes you think about what is really necessary weight wise.

 

My advice would be start a savings envelope, find a high end rod price to shoot for, and get cracking. If you spend time with that rod, I don't think you will ever feel it was a waste of money.

[lmbfisherman]

chase - very well put. 

[David P]

Have you ever tried / heard of rod butt weights? A guide I went with in Florida showed me a butt cap with some washers in it that he swore balanced out his rod and saved his wrists and tendinitis. I've heard the balance issue talked about a lot on forums, and I'm wondering if some of these folks thought of that when a good rod was out of balance. I've been meaning to try it myself lately since I have a rod or two thats a bit tip heavy.

They sell them at Bass Pro Shop... It works, but it's not nearly as nice as having a well balanced rod to start. Dobyns Rods were built with rod balance specifically in mind. It makes a rod feel lighter, even if in reality it's slightly heavier than a comparable rod that's not balanced well. Tip heavy rods can be light, but if they're tip heavy, they are a pain in the ***! 

[rockchalk06]

They sell them at Bass Pro Shop... It works, but it's not nearly as nice as having a well balanced rod to start. Dobyns Rods were built with rod balance specifically in mind. It makes a rod feel lighter, even if in reality it's slightly heavier than a comparable rod that's not balanced well. Tip heavy rods can be light, but if they're tip heavy, they are a pain in the ***!

Agreed,

 

I really like the feel of two rods I have, a Clarus and Mojo, but both balance like a drunk elephant. The mojo is one of the lightest rods I own. It loads a 1/2oz swim jig better than any rod I have, but the thing is so tip heavy that it makes a day of fishing kinda suck. I've used a 10 oz reel to try and balance it out with no luck.

 

My 733 is tad heavier than my MoJo, but it balances so well with my 50E, that it feels half the weight of the Mojo. I had to break out the scale to see for myself.

[David P]

That's the thing so many people mistake when they hear about a rods "weight". They go for the "lightest" rod. I'd take a rod 2oz heavier if it balances perfectly with my reels! 

 

 You should honestly try those butt weights from bass pro if you like that rod that much... I'd imagine for a swim jig it's even more of a pain, especially if you fish it with the rod tip high like I do! 

[Khong]

I'm an owner of mostly mid-priced rods. Which I consider about $150 or so. 

 

Has anyone owned and used both really expensive ($300-$600) rods as well as mid priced rods and can compare them on sensitivity? Are they 2-3x as sensitive? I'm not talking about build quality or lightness, just raw fish bite detection. 

 

I'm really looking for an unbiased judgement. I realize there's a ton of good reasons pay for the pricier gear beyond sensitivity, I'm just trying to gauge for myself if I should pay 2x+ the price for my worm/jig/flip rods where I want sensitivity to catch more fish.

 

Owners of the pricier rods, would you deem them essential for yourself and your fishing performance, or a nice-to-be-able-to-afford-quality kind of thing?

 

More sensitivity? No sensitivity upgrade after $150.

 

After $150, you are probably only getting a better quality rod.  

[rockchalk06]

I'm going to be replacing it with 744 or 734 in Feb. I was going to hold out till then, but I may give them a try

[David P]

Definitely the better route, but in the mean time until you're able to purchase one, it's worth a shot. Or get them just to keep the Mojo rod as a backup spinnerbait rod or something. Never know when you'll want to have an extra bait tied on.

[rockchalk06]

More sensitivity? No sensitivity upgrade after $150.

 

After $150, you are probably only getting a better quality rod.  

I disagree completely.  

[David P]

More sensitivity? No sensitivity upgrade after $150.

 

After $150, you are probably only getting a better quality rod.  

 

Not sure where you get your information from, but it's simply not true. Part of what contributes to that rod being better "quality" is the sensitivity. The components (ie guides, wrapping, cork, reel seat) are not what boosts a rods price from $150 to $500. Certainly nicer components raise the price, but sensitivity from higher quality blanks is a major factor.

[rockchalk06]

Definitely the better route, but in the mean time until you're able to purchase one, it's worth a shot. Or get them just to keep the Mojo rod as a backup spinnerbait rod or something. Never know when you'll want to have an extra bait tied on.

True. I have it now as a quick change combo with an Alimony jig tied on. If I miss a hit and need a quick chance it usually works.

[Khong]

Not sure where you get your information from, but it's simply not true. Part of what contributes to that rod being better "quality" is the sensitivity. The components (ie guides, wrapping, cork, reel seat) are not what boosts a rods price from $150 to $500. Certainly nicer components raises the price, but sensitivity from better blanks is a major factor.

 

I have a Duckett rod that was more sensitive then my Legend Tournament.  Why did I upgrade to a Legend Tournament, it's because it's a better quality rod then a Duckett.  

 

Sensitivity doesn't always count if you get a crappy rod that breaks every year!  (Note: I don't mean the Duckett rod.)  I want a rod that will not fail me.

[rockchalk06]

I have a Duckett rod that was more sensitive then my Legend Tournament.  Why did I upgrade to a Legend Tournament, it's because it's a better quality rod then a Duckett.  

 

Sensitivity doesn't always count if you get a crappy rod that breaks every year!  (Note: I don't mean the Duckett rod.)  I want a rod that will not fail me.

 

 

Your Duckett may have felt more sensitive to you, but what I highlighted makes absolutely no sense.

[David P]

So your Legend Tournament broke? I'm confused, sorry. 

 

 That is one instance, and neither of those rods do I have much experience with. There's many variables that can go into it. 

 

My point was just this, people do not pay $500 for a rod that only has nicer variables than a $150 rod. Sensitivity is one of the major things you gain when you shell out the big bucks. You may have had a bad experience, and that sucks, but don't let it sour you from trying another high end rod, you just might be pleasantly surprised!

[Khong]

Your Duckett may have felt more sensitive to you, but what I highlighted makes absolutely no sense.

 

The point I'm making is Quality will gradually increase the cost of your rod, not just sensitivity.  I'm guessing you don't comprehend a lot so it's okay.  View your point and stop disagreeing with me.

[*Hootie]

Sensitivity = "Emperor's New Clothes".....lol.

Hootie

[*Hootie]

View your point and stop disagreeing with me.

Is disagreeing with Khong against forum policy?

I read the rules and never saw his name anywhere....lol.

Hootie