Fluoro, Knots & Deep Crankbaits

[wishin4fishin]

I'm relatively new to all things fluoro and have a knot question.

 

I just got back from a weekend trip on lake Cumberland.

 

I was casting mainly deeper diving cranks (DT16) using clinch knot on 10# Seaguar InvizX.

 

I was surprised when the first bait went sailing through the air after about the 3rd cast. Knot broke.

 

I launched another $7 DT about 25 minutes later. Same issue with the knot.

 

I'm aware of "burning" fluoro when trying to cinch the knot too quickly. I thought I was careful with this as I tied.

 

So what am I doing wrong, should I be looking at different knots?

 

10# should be fine for this size crank. I'd rather not move up to #12

[BradH]

I use a clinch knot on fluoro tied to a snap for crankbaiting quite a bit.  I have not had that issue.  I use probably four or five different knots.  Wind direction, planetary alignment and the number of beers I had the night before dictate which knot I use on fluorocarbon;).  If you're aware of knot burning you have already taken the #1 knot failure culprit off the list.  How many wraps are you using?  I use five on fluorocarbon and no more.  I have noticed with any knot on fluorocarbon, there is a point where a more complex knot gets weaker fast.  On uni knots and clinch knots I go five wraps and no more.  It's worth a shot.

[rockchalk06]

I'm not by all means being condescending, but have your checked over the line or looked at your guides for any sharp edges?  

 

When I first started using fluoro I had the same issues and I was using the Improved Clinch knot. My problem ended up being my last guide had a nasty bur on it and on a hard cast it would catch and break the line right at the knot.

 

A properly tied improved clinch knot should hold fluoro with ease.

[wishin4fishin]

I use a clinch knot on fluoro tied to a snap for crankbaiting quite a bit.  I have not had that issue.  I use probably four or five different knots.  Wind direction, planetary alignment and the number of beers I had the night before dictate which knot I use on fluorocarbon;).  If you're aware of knot burning you have already taken the #1 knot failure culprit off the list.  How many wraps are you using?  I use five on fluorocarbon and no more.  I have noticed with any knot on fluorocarbon, there is a point where a more complex knot gets weaker fast.  On uni knots and clinch knots I go five wraps and no more.  It's worth a shot.

 

Thx BradH

 

i just noticed the post from Wed the 11th. I'm 90% sure my knot is sub-par.

 

And I'm pretty sure I only use 4 or 5 wraps when I tie, but I'm thinking maybe I'm not using enough spit.

[wnybassman]

Are you sure the line isn't fluffing up a little on the spool and backlashing?   A knot breaking on the cast doesn't make any sense unless the line suddenly stops and puts a lot of force on the knot, otherwise there is next to zero resistance.

[wishin4fishin]

I'm not by all means being condescending, but have your checked over the line or looked at your guides for any sharp edges?  

 

When I first started using fluoro I had the same issues and I was using the Improved Clinch knot. My problem ended up being my last guide had a nasty bur on it and on a hard cast it would catch and break the line right at the knot.

 

A properly tied improved clinch knot should hold fluoro with ease.

 

Thx for posting your idea,

 

The rod I'm using is really old, there's a huge chance the guides might be damaging the knot.

 

i hadn't even thought about this.

[wishin4fishin]

Are you sure the line isn't fluffing up a little on the spool and backlashing?   A knot breaking on the cast doesn't make any sense unless the line suddenly stops and puts a lot of force on the knot, otherwise there is next to zero resistance.

 

I'm using KVD Line and Lure Conditioner, and believe it or not, this stuff is casting like a dream. No loops or backlashing so far. Fingers crossed.

[wnybassman]

I'm using KVD Line and Lure Conditioner, and believe it or not, this stuff is casting like a dream. No loops or backlashing so far. Fingers crossed.

How much line is out when it usually broke?

[wishin4fishin]

How much line is out when it usually broke?

 

Pretty far out, I'm thinking more than 15 yards both times it broke

[Jrob78]

Get a Q-Tip and run it around the inside of your guides, if there are cracks the cotton will snag them and you will know.  

 

Is your line good?  What brand is it?  If it's old, replace it with a premium fluoro.  10lb should be fine for cranking.

 

Practice tying knots.  Make sure you can tie them slowly and correctly with lots of spit.  Learn a new knot, the San Diego Jam is really good with fluoro, so is the Uni.  

 

If none of these things work, take up golf.

[wishin4fishin]

Get a Q-Tip and run it around the inside of your guides, if there are cracks the cotton will snag them and you will know.  

 

Is your line good?  What brand is it?  If it's old, replace it with a premium fluoro.  10lb should be fine for cranking.

 

Practice tying knots.  Make sure you can tie them slowly and correctly with lots of spit.  Learn a new knot, the San Diego Jam is really good with fluoro, so is the Uni.  

 

If none of these things work, take up golf.

 

Golf??????

 

Never!!!!   ( :

 

I'm using Seaguar InvisX #10

[Jrob78]

Golf??????

 

Never!!!!   ( :

 

I'm using Seaguar InvisX #10

InvizX is a good line.  Check your guides and practice your knots.  I bet that fixes your problem. 

 

The local golf course is safe, for now.

[wnybassman]

Pretty far out, I'm thinking more than 15 yards both times it broke

 

 

So the stress on the knot of the actual cast is over at that point, and being that far out the bait is just basically free floating pulling very little on the reel.  I just don't see the knot breaking or becoming undone at that time, unless the line stops suddenly for some reason.

 

When/if you found your bait after it broke, there was no line left on it?

 

I only offer this possible cause because the exact same thing happens to me when I am using the 30 pound braid I use for deep cranking.   If I let the rod do the work when casting I generally have no problems, but when I get over anxious and try to cast the crap out of the bait to really get it out there, my line fluffs up and occasionally backlashes stopping the spool instantly.   This results in the crank sailing away from my line.    I often have 10+ feet of line on my crank when I go retrieve it though, but it will usually only break at the weakest point, which in your case might be the knot.   Sometimes mine will break in the spool after it digs in, leaving no tag end, rendering the rest of the line useless because you can't find the end.

[wishin4fishin]

So the stress on the knot of the actual cast is over at that point, and being that far out the bait is just basically free floating pulling very little on the reel.  I just don't see the knot breaking or becoming undone at that time, unless the line stops suddenly for some reason.

 

When/if you found your bait after it broke, there was no line left on it?

 

I only offer this possible cause because the exact same thing happens to me when I am using the 30 pound braid I use for deep cranking.   If I let the rod do the work when casting I generally have no problems, but when I get over anxious and try to cast the crap out of the bait to really get it out there, my line fluffs up and occasionally backlashes stopping the spool instantly.   This results in the crank sailing away from my line.    I often have 10+ feet of line on my crank when I go retrieve it though, but it will usually only break at the weakest point, which in your case might be the knot.   Sometimes mine will break in the spool after it digs in, leaving no tag end, rendering the rest of the line useless because you can't find the end.

 

The break was occurring at the knot both times. I reeled in the end of the line and both times it broke actually right at the knot. So it's gotta be my lack of knot skills.

[deadadrift89]

Ive used a Trilene knot for years and when i switched to fluoro line i had to reduce wraps to 4 turns and wet the heck out of it.Also tighten very slowly and no more problems.

[skeletor6]

My friend uses an improved clinch knot for fluoro and swears by it. I think something went wrong in your knot tying process, or in your line checking process. It sounds like you are slightly in tune with what you should be looking for, but make sure the knot is very neat and pull at the tag end with lots of spit. If it does not tie neat, start over. 

 

Furthermore, I use the pitzen knot. It is a very easy knot to tie, and tie neat for that matter. Also, it has never given me any problems, however, I do use high quality FC.