Fluro+Lost Lures=Money Wasted

[JWOA]

  Guys can you show me the best not for fluro. Every time I use this stuff I loose a bunch of lures. Im talking about 50 to 70 dollars worth. I want to try it again but scared too. Any help guys

[5dollarsplash]

_{Palomar knot}

[ec1]

Don't know what line you are using, but it is very important that you moisten the line with some saliva when cinching everything down.

 

In terms of knots, I like a uni knot with 2 loops into the eye of the hook. From what I've understood from over the years, any knot where the line goes through the eye of the hook twice is stronger.

[slonezp]

What brand flouro? They are not all created equal.

[SJex]

Don't know what line you are using, but it is very important that you moisten the line with some saliva when cinching everything down.

 

 

This is likely the problem.

[Cgrinder]

Uni knot. Extra slobber.

[S Hovanec]

He might be getting 'Vanished'?

I use a very wet Palomar without issue.

[BassinLou]

If its expensive fluoro, then your culprit is a bad knot. Everyone has given you the right advise. Moisten your line before you cinch it down.

[.ghoti.]

San Diego jam knot, well lubricated, cinched down S-L-O-W-L-Y

[Grizzn N Bassin]

What they said^^^^^^ X extra slobber

[jeb2]

San Diego jam knot, well lubricated, cinched down S-L-O-W-L-Y

+1. Good knot that is easy to tie.

[skeletor6]

_{Palomar knot}

All advice is sound. However, the palomar knot is the wrong choice for fluoro. It crosses over itself inherently weakening the line.

Find a good knot and find a good line. Practice your knot and get good at it. Everything should look neat when finished and pull through at the tag end. Any weakened points whether crossing over, friction from not moistening, or pulling the tag end through so its right in front of your knot will increase the chance of failure.

Once you get it down it won't be something you give any thought to.

[SudburyBasser]

Tie it right and moisten properly and even the humble improved clinch knot works fine on fluoro. I've been using this the entire summer on a rod I keep in back of the Jeep for "emergencies" and caught bass and pike without issue.

[JWOA]

What brand flouro? They are not all created equal.

  Ive been using Viscous I havent tried anything else beside Trilene Fluro...I dont like the stuff

[michang5]

Hmm.. First time I've read something negative about the Palomar with an explanation to back it.

Looking through Knot Wars iPhone app, the Palomar is above average for fluoro (15.11 measurement on their machine). SD Jam is about the same.

The Berkley Braid and Triple Loop (both I've not heard of before) both rate in the 19s. Will have to investigate!

Btw... I posted in another thread about my dissatisfaction with #10 Vicious fluoro and lost lures. I've picked up a pack of 12# Invizx on the recommendation here and elsewhere.

[michang5]

Jay, I was writing my note about Vicious fluoro while you were writing yours. I think we share the same culprit!

[slonezp]

All advice is sound. However, the palomar knot is the wrong choice for fluoro. It crosses over itself inherently weakening the line.

 

I have used the well spit on palomar knot for years without issue on decent quality flouro. Key words being decent quality. I've settled on Seaguar Abrazix as my current line of choice. I dislike Vanish and Trilene 100%. Seaguar Invizix is ok. BPS is crap. Haven't used much else that I can remember at this time.  

[Team9nine]

Testing I've seen has shown that different fluoro line brands sometimes perform better/worse with certain knots, but overall, all the common knots are fairly equivalent when averaged out. The stuff about a Palomar knot being a bad knot for fluoro is myth. Like any other knot, if tied properly (no crossed lines, etc.), there are no issues most of the time. In some cases, it even tests out as the superior knot with certain fluoro brands. It's the one I've chosen to use for the past several years. Pick a good common knot (San Diego Jam, Pitzen, Improved Clinch, Trilene, Uni, Palomar), learn how to tie it well, and as already suggested numerous times, lubricate and pull slowly and you shouldn't have any issues...unless you simply got a bad spool of line - it does happen from time to time.

 

-T9

[Brian Needham]

knot problems with flouro is a dry knot problem MOST times.

 

I can use a 15 wrap improved clinch knot with 20# line and never have issue with it, but there will be spit running down my lure I wet it so much too, LOL.

[ClackerBuzz]

the palomar knot is more 'unforgiving with fluoro. make sure you pull ur tag end thru so it get's 'burned' as opposed to ur main line.  i go one step further and don't intiatally cinch the knot against the hook eye. instead i stick my index finger in the hoop and cinch down on my finger first...pull it all snug and then finish by pulling the wet tag end thru.

the san diego jam knot is much easier for beginner fluoro line users

[skeletor6]

I have used the well spit on palomar knot for years without issue on decent quality flouro. Key words being decent quality. I've settled on Seaguar Abrazix as my current line of choice. I dislike Vanish and Trilene 100%. Seaguar Invizix is ok. BPS is crap. Haven't used much else that I can remember at this time.  

 

Seaguar used to have on their fluorocarbon packaging to specifically not tie the palomar knot. It is not recommended for fluorocarbon.

 

Testing I've seen has shown that different fluoro line brands sometimes perform better/worse with certain knots, but overall, all the common knots are fairly equivalent when averaged out. The stuff about a Palomar knot being a bad knot for fluoro is myth. Like any other knot, if tied properly (no crossed lines, etc.), there are no issues most of the time. In some cases, it even tests out as the superior knot with certain fluoro brands. It's the one I've chosen to use for the past several years. Pick a good common knot (San Diego Jam, Pitzen, Improved Clinch, Trilene, Uni, Palomar), learn how to tie it well, and as already suggested numerous times, lubricate and pull slowly and you shouldn't have any issues...unless you simply got a bad spool of line - it does happen from time to time.

 

-T9

 

The point you are missing is that a palomar knot, when tied correctly, crosses over on itself weakening the line. The palomar knot used to be considered one of the strongest knots, but that is not the case anymore, especially for fluorocarbon. More and more pros have completely moved away from this knot due to its inherent proclivity to weaken fluorocarbon. Case in fact, Kevin Van Dam, Aaron Martens, Edwin Evers and others have made the switch and have openly made this suggestion.

 

However, lets not take this too far. This does not mean that if you go out and tie a Palomar Knot on FC that you will break off every time. Moreso, I would take a carefully tied palomar knot over a sloppy (insert knot here), anyday. I believe that the pitzen knot is the best knot for FC, followed by a san diego double jam. Not single. This is my opinion.

 

In regards to testing, I have not seen the pitzen put up against the palomar on in a valid experiment on a high quality FC which exhibits good knot strength such as Seaguar Tatsu. A simple experiment done by tackletour shown the palomar being 7.7% weaker than a simple improved clinch knot. http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2pg4.html

 

I would suggest that this percentage is much higher when compared to the pitzen, in a testing environment that I indicated.

[SirSnookalot]

I have no objection to use any knot whether it be the basic ones I use or more sophisticated ones, as long as it holds.  In the event I have a continuing knot issue, I'm changing the line not my knots.  I'm sticking with outdated knots, lines, rods and reels but still banging out real nice fish, why change?

[bmlum415]

Only time I've lost something on flouro is if I snag rocks and trees. Try using a better knot or better flouro. Except once when my back cast snagged my partners line and snapped my brand new storm arashi off on 15lb invisx but that was my error. I'm probably the first one to lose one on the Cali delta since it was a a little over a month ago

[Sam]

_{Palomar knot}

 

X2.

 

Also, are you running the line through your forefinger and thumbnail to search for knicks, cuts, abrasions, etc. in the line as you fish?  You need to do this with all line and cut out the damaged line and retie.

 

Are you retying your knots after two or three fish?  If not, you have to start doing this. It is critical to successful fishing.

 

Are you "burning" your line when you tie your knots. You know to wet the line before tightening the knot but do you feel the line above the knot to note if you have "burned" it?  The line will feel wavy and you can usually see the wavy line. Cut it out and start over.

 

Is the line fresh? Are you using new line or line you have had for a number of years?  Fresh line is the best. Buy it at tackle stores that have a high turnover of fishing line.

 

Are you storing the line in your home? If not, start storing the line in a temperature controlled environment, like your man cave or a clothes drawer. Keep the line out of sunlight and temperature swings.

 

After doing the above let us know if you are having more success.

 

And learn the Palamore knot. Once you master it you will love it.

 

Keep us posted on this topic as you do the above.

[Team9nine]

The point you are missing is that a palomar knot, when tied correctly, crosses over on itself weakening the line. .

 

 

In regards to testing, I have not seen the pitzen put up against the palomar on in a valid experiment on a high quality FC which exhibits good knot strength such as Seaguar Tatsu. A simple experiment done by tackletour shown the palomar being 7.7% weaker than a simple improved clinch knot. http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2pg4.html

 

 

 

skeletor - the point I failed to make clearly about crossed lines was in reference to the double line that initially goes around the split ring and forms the base of the knot, not the later crossover that you mention. Very easy to get sloppy with that part and doom the knot to failure before even starting.

 

As for testing, again, it seems to depend on line brand. In your example, they stated the line brand used as "unnamed", yet in later reviews and tests with specific fluorocarbon  lines such as in the links below, you'll see the Palomar was the superior knot in strength by several percentage points.

 

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewsugoifc.html

 

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewtrilenefc.html

 

All I can state is that after trying several different knots over many years of fluoro use, I've gone back to and settled on the Palomar (which I've always used for everything else) without regret. The couple percentage points difference give or take with all these knots probably amount to little in the real world as opposed to the lab.

 

On the pitzen knot, I haven't seen any specific numbers recently in head-to-head testing, but I believe it ties easier and cleaner than the San Diego jam, and therefor seems to be at least as good, if not better in most cases. Again, just opinion at this point. I know several people who do recommend it, and some that think they're tying the san diego but actually aren't (instead tying the pitzen) because they don't actually run the line through loop formed at the bottom.

 

-T9