Ok Bow Gurus

[clayton86]

Ok bow nuts I got some questions.

I spent a bunch of time shooting today because I'm not gonna get a chance to shoot but maybe 2 weeks before bow season after this week due to some prior obligations made to the army. Anyways I noticed a few things.

1. My arrows seem to cork screw at least it looks that way from the shooters stand point watching my arrows fly down range. Now idk if this is something that needs to be fixed or what because I hit vitals from 10 out to 60 yards I've been shooting out to. Obviously my groups are tighter the closer I am. From 10-30 yards I can put them in a nickel sized group at 40 it's maybe 1" 50 and 60 it's between 3 and 4" all pretty good I think. I'm not sure if this would all for it to be paper tuned? I'm not even sure what paper tuning even is.

2. I got the bow brand new after having all the accessories put on it the guy at the shop said to bring it back to be tightened up. Do I need to do this or is it safe to keep shooting?

3. The new broad heads I got are advertised to shoot same as field points but the DO NOT not even close. Now I've heard just searching other forums about these heads that they don't shoot we'll out of some helical fletchings and I have the small helical blazer vanes. I'm going to call the company tomorrow and see what they say about it I've heard they have an excellent customer service.

4. I CAN'T WAIT TILL OCTOBER 1st!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jbsoonerfan]

There are a number of options and things that could be done here.

 

Bow could be out of tune

Arrows could be under spined

Form issues could cause erratic arrow flight

Needs to be BH tuned

 

I would take it to someone who can look it over

[clayton86]

I group tight its not like I'm throwing fliers or anything it's been doing it I just noticed it a little more today.

[BamaBassChaser]

I'm no expert but I'll try to help.

 1. If you have one vane that is a different color from the other ones, this is likely a optical illusion. With the groups you're getting, arrow flight sounds like it's good.

 2.You don't have to take it to the shop, but you do need to check everything to make sure it hasn't worked loose. If you can put a wrench on it, check it. Trust me on this one, I speak from experience.

 3. This is probably a tuning issue. You can check out the archerytalk forums if you want to try to tackle it yourself or you can take it to a local shop and they should be able to get you fixed up.

[MDBowHunter]

First off I would definitely paper tune it, it's super easy I'll give you a link at the end of this that will show you how to do it. If your shooting those toxics, I could definitely see where they would plane out and fly different then a field point. I know them toxics look great but do yourself a favor and try some G5 T3s, they fly just like a field point which is great when practicing. For one you can practice with field points and you wont tear up the blades on your broad heads or your target. Also when practicing with broadheads  you run a high risk of cutting vanes off or just hit another head thats already in the target.

 

Once you have it paper tuned then if you want to use them toxics you'll have to tune in your sights for the broadheads, but at this point you'll be stuck practicing with a head that you can't sharpen so you better stock up on a bunch of extra blades. But long story short paper tuning lets you know that your arrow is leaving the bow nice and straight. Good luck.

 

[clayton86]

Ill have to wait till tomorrow to watch the link at work my service is the worst here in my apt. The T3 is great my best friend swears by them but they are illegal in NY he hunts them in PA and rage 2 blade or montecs in NY.

I've only been shooting one toxic head saving 2 for hunting so idk te group I'm shooting with BHs the groups I'm stating are with field tips. If I get the one I'm shooting to hit like they claim they will I will order some replacement blades and shoot the others just to see how they group. I was impressed with them on the block other then completely destroying the block lol. They got about 6" more penetration then the field tips almost complete pass threw at 30yds on a block.

I'm probably gonna take a trip to the bow shop this week ad hope he has it done in time for deer season it took him 3 weeks back in April I can just imagine he is swamped now. I will be out of town till sept 15 season opens oct 1

[clayton86]

I also forgot to ask. If the broad heads shoot that out of whack from the field tips like always high to the right would I just add a pin for the BH because I don't want to keep re zeroing every season because I switch to field tips in the off season

[TJS209]

If you're BH's are hitting different than your FP's you need to BH tune your bow.  PM me and I will send you a link on how to BH tune it's pretty easy.  No matter what BH's I use I make sure that my BH's and FP's have the same POI.

[clayton86]

This is what I want I hate having two poi after 2 shots I knew where to aim for Kentucky windage but I'd rather not have to.

[MDBowHunter]

Broad head tuning will work, but if you ever go back to shooting  field points or  blunt rubber tips for small game you will have to re-tune your bow, or just guess at it. I just find it easier to use a BH that flies the same as a field point, blunt point, judo or whatever.

 

 

Plus I don't get why guys take all the time to paper tune their bow, just to make sure that the arrow is leaving the bow nice and straight. Just to go and mess it up, and all of this to make up for an ill flying BH.  There are a ton of BHs that will fly as true as a field point and more then get the job done.

[clayton86]

These heads are supposed to fly like field points I've emailed the company an they have been helpful to an extent they said to make sure the bow is 100% perfectly tuned because of the design of the head any slight imperfection in the set up or shooting form will be amplified by the design of the head. I don't have much time with the mission I took on with the guard to get this sorted I may end up taking the bow with me and finding a good shop out in Rome, ny to help with tuning and setting up.

Most the reports on archery talk of people actually using these heads say they hit right on the money even posting pics of hog kills and an elk kill. The ones with problems all say that they switched vanes and corrected the issue and the emails I received from the company state the same to maybe go to bigger straighter fletchings. I might try a 4" blazer on a few and see how it shoots mine are 2". The two sgts at the armory who put me on these heads say they opened the pack shot and it was same POI as the field tips.

[OkeechobeeAngler]

Any way you can do a video of you shooting the bow and let us see ? There are to many variables that can be wrong. How is your arrow rest clearance ? Also as stated could be under spined arrows. Cams out of sync. Limbs etc. 

[clayton86]

I might be able to take the bow to the armory with me and shoot it on te drill hall floor we were last week so I don't see the issue. If its ok with them then I will take it and shoot it there and I will have a buddy video tape it on my phone and I'll up load it at the earliest Wednesday. I kinda want to try another broad head and see if they fly true but I've got 8 dollars to my name till next Wednesday so that's out lol same with trying new vanes bad part is at that point I will be on orders 3 hours from home staying out of a hotel.

[jbsoonerfan]

 

BH tuning means getting your FP's and BH's to hit the same POI. There is no having to re-tune once you have both hitting the same POI.

 

Could be as simple as moving the rest this way and the sights that way, or yoke tuning (if the bow has yokes), but it is possible to get both points to hit the same spot.

[clayton86]

Reading some of the tuning pages got my head spinning but I'm reading it all on my cell phone and scrolling left right up down haha. I'm gonna re read everything today at work on a computer screen and where it is quiet.

[clayton86]

Ok this made it simple

I just move my rest what will be to the left and hopefully down idk how the down part will work I gotta look at my rest.

[MDBowHunter]

If you can find me some vids showing that its possible to do what you saying I would love to see it, as I wanting to learn as much as I can also. Because what I'm see everyone doing is adjusting the rest so the BH will hit where the FP just did, but they never shoot a FP after to show that they'll indeed hit in the same spot after the rest is moved. If your moving the rest to adjust for the flight of the BH, the field point will move just as far as the BH . So if your BH was hitting low left as compared to the FP and you adjust the rest to fix it. You FP is now going to hit high right every time. I've been tuning my bow along with my brothers bow and 3 of my hunting buddies for the last 10 years, and all of our bows will put our BHs the same exact place as a FP from 10 to 60 yards. And this is with us guys using 3 different brands of BHs.

 

I've shot a ton of different BHs over the years and there's a couple handfulls that I found to fly the same as a FPs, I can also take one of my brothers arrows and BHs and it will hit right where mine will with no adjustments to the rest or sight. I shoot Maxima Blue Streaks with T3s and he shoots whatever Redhead carbons that happen to be on sale at BPS and 2 blade rages, I was shooting NAP spit fires before I switched to the T3s and they fly just the same as the T3s or rages. Now if you was to try and do that same side by side with a muzzy and a thunder head they will hit 2 different spots every time, I know this because they were some of the first BHs that I ever used and I've done the comparison. Now the reason that they hit in two different spots is because of the blades and how they plane out going through the air. Now if you was to take the blades off them same two heads and shoot them they will hit the same spot, but only without blades and again I've tried this myself. The only reason I even switched for the spitfires to the T3s is the damage that is caused by the T3 compared to the spitfire.

[clayton86]

That was my thought also if you move the rest it will just move the field points the same. The guy in the video I posted says it something like field points fly the same an true it's just what they do. He doesn't show it he does shoot two shots though don't see what though. He does say in the beginning he is only shooting 1 broad head so maybe the other is a field point I'm not sure.

One of the sgts at the armory said the same thing though he said make the rest adjustment it won't affect the field point. Seems counter productive to me but I'm gonna try it.

[jbsoonerfan]

Here is a thread with a lot of helpful info. Even a couple links to other threads

 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1243843

[jbsoonerfan]

It explains it in the video above that both BH's and FP's are hitting the same spot.

 

A small amount of rest movement will have an effect on BH's but won't affect FP's much (if any) at all.

[MDBowHunter]

Ok guys, for sh-ts and giggles I took my bow outside with 12 arrows all with FP I shot the first six and then moved my rest to the left 1/8th of an inch. Then I shot the next 6 arrows and they hit approx. 3" to the left of the first group. Then I pulled the arrows went back to my spot and shot 6 arrows, then I put my rest back 1/8th of an inch to the right (or where they were before being moved) and the next 6 arrows all hit 3" to the right of the first arrows. To be honest I knew these would be the results, but with this discussion in mind I did it anyway. All these shots were taken at 20 yards with a Parker Phoenix 32 set @ 70# with a 29 " draw length not that any of that matters. But like I stated earlier try paper tuning the bow and then if they still don't fly the same, do yourself a huge favor and try a few different BHs (when the funds will allow it that is).

 

Clayton I'm just curious as to why a T3 is illegal in NY but a rage is not, is it the cutting diameter?

[TJS209]

NY may consider the T3 a barbed BH

 

Here's a good link on tuning.

 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1606741

 

As others have stated though it might be another issue than just tuning.

[MDBowHunter]

Just for the record the main reason I say paper tune is because Clayton said in his first post that it looks like his arrows are corkscrewing. This is generally caused by the arrow not leaving the bow straight, and then moving back and forth as the arrow tries and straighten it's self, or under spined arrows. But since he said he's getting good groupings I doubt that under spined arrows are the problem.

[jbsoonerfan]

Here is another thread that shows each shot with a BH and a FP and how the arrow rest was moved.

 

I PROMISE you can get BH's and FP's to have the same POI

 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460

[clayton86]

T3 and rage 3 blade are both illegal in NYS because they are considered barbed.

The cork screw thing I mentioned I think was like stated earlier a optical illusion. I shot again tonight just quick a few shots at various ranges I shot 10, 20, 30, 40, and 60 yards just to try and see a few things I checked out in videos about knocking points and peep alignment and what not just a quick few shots. I had the neighbor watch he said my arrows were flying like lazer beams lol. Wish I got him to video it but I forgot.