Catch And Release Only Bass Lake; Why Are They So Small?

[LVLDVL]

The lake in question is Turtle Lake located in Shoreview, MN (just about 12 miles north of St. Paul).

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/eastmetro/lakes/turtle.html

 

The water condition is superb and there seems to be lots of minnows and small panfish as forage for bass. The weed structure is also outstanding. The DNR states that the bass is average abundance, above average size. However, most of the bass I've caught there are small; under 2lbs and I would say the average size catch is 14oz to 1lbs. The largest I've seen is about 1.5lbs. I've only been there twice but among other Minnesota bass anglers, it seems to be a concensus that Turtle Lake has lots of bass but smaller sizes. Here in Minnesota, our bass don't get very big but 1lbs is not the average size.

 

But how can this be with the lake size, forage present, water conditions, and the special regulation that all bass must be returned to the water? Also of interest is that every bass I have caught there had flat stomach as if they are starving.

 

Anyone care to share management and ecological insight as to why this is? Could it be that there are no rocks and wood present as well as the abscence of large crawdad population? It seems that any lake with huge crawdad population always seems to yield bigger bass.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

The lake in question is Turtle Lake located in Shoreview, MN (just about 12 miles north of St. Paul).

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/eastmetro/lakes/turtle.html

 

The water condition is superb and there seems to be lots of minnows and small panfish as forage for bass. The weed structure is also outstanding. The DNR states that the bass is average abundance, above average size. However, most of the bass I've caught there are small; under 2lbs and I would say the average size catch is 14oz to 1lbs. The largest I've seen is about 1.5lbs. I've only been there twice but among other Minnesota bass anglers, it seems to be a concensus that Turtle Lake has lots of bass but smaller sizes. Here in Minnesota, our bass don't get very big but 1lbs is not the average size.

 

But how can this be with the lake size, forage present, water conditions, and the special regulation that all bass must be returned to the water? Also of interest is that every bass I have caught there had flat stomach as if they are starving.

 

Anyone care to share management and ecological insight as to why this is? Could it be that there are no rocks and wood present as well as the abscence of large crawdad population? It seems that any lake with huge crawdad population always seems to yield bigger bass.

 

You answered your own question right there, IMO.

 

The flat stomachs on the fish you are catching all but confirm that there is not enough forage for the number of bass present in the lake. Perfect example of 100% Catch and release's downfall and why "selective harvest" is the best way to preserve a fishery and allow it to flourish.

[buzzed bait]

You answered your own question right there, IMO.

 

The flat stomachs on the fish you are catching all but confirm that there is not enough forage for the number of bass present in the lake. Perfect example of 100% Catch and release's downfall and why "selective harvest" is the best way to preserve a fishery and allow it to flourish.

You hit this on the head....  you should talk to serious deer hunters and they can explain the theory of selective harvest quite well.  If we were able to save every single human life from sickness, disease, natural disaster, etc. we would run out of food in no time, starve, and eventually cease to exist.  Someone in the MN DNR should take a look at this lake and determine whether the strict catch and release regulation is helping in the long term.

[nascar2428]

Bass are the only catch and release, yet there is an over abundance of walleye , pike and sunfish all of which are average size or smaller. I am not a biologist by any means but it seems to me that the predators out number the bait fish. With bass having an average abundance it seems to me that the walleye and pike may need thinning out. And as a side note I love the DNR's comment on the shore fishing area, what's the use of having it if your chance's of catching fish are so dismal.

[Kevin22]

Sounds like not much food. Pike, bass, walleye, and crappie will all fight for the same food when they are small. 

 

I will guarantee you there are big ones in that lake, and I will also guarantee you the majority of them are schooled up and off on some point or ledge in the middle of the lake while the little ones cruise the shore/boat docks. 

 

Find some big pike and you will find bigger bass. If a bass can coexist with a 30" pike, he has to be bigger than 14oz or he is a meal. 

[LVLDVL]

I will guarantee you there are big ones in that lake, and I will also guarantee you the majority of them are schooled up and off on some point or ledge in the middle of the lake while the little ones cruise the shore/boat docks.

 

Wow. That is exactly where I was fishing for all the dinkers; the weed flats where the docks are. Now I gotta try the middle of the lake!

 

Edit: Wait...how am I suppose to find points and ledges in 10'+ of water in a canoe with no electronics. Fail.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

Wow. That is exactly where I was fishing for all the dinkers; the weed flats where the docks are. Now I gotta try the middle of the lake!

 

Edit: Wait...how am I suppose to find points and ledges in 10'+ of water in a canoe with no electronics. Fail.

 

Drag a heavy carolina rig with a tungsten weight. You'll get feedback.

 

Electronics haven't always existed or even been very good. There are ways, just gotta get creative. You can also typically look at the surrounding terrain and gauge what it looks like under the water.

 

Maybe look for contour maps of the area or if it's a man-made lake see if you can locate a map of the area before it was impounded.

[Bassfishing375]

Overpopulation of bass, there is not enough food for all the bass, that is why the fish are starving. There is not enough predators to counter balance the population of bass. There is nothing you can do if it is only catch and release.

 

But I do agree with Kevin22 there has to be a few big bass in the lake you just have you find them. Good luck

[Kevin22]

Wow. That is exactly where I was fishing for all the dinkers; the weed flats where the docks are. Now I gotta try the middle of the lake!

 

Edit: Wait...how am I suppose to find points and ledges in 10'+ of water in a canoe with no electronics. Fail.

 

 

Pull up a lake map off the internet, buy a lake map, buy navionics for smartphone, ask some locals, or just go drag a heavy lure around. If you have an android phone, the navionics app was on sale for $0.99. It has nearly every lake in MN. 

 

It does not have to be in the middle of the lake, just an offshore ledge, rock bar, sand bar, or point where baitfish are running. This time of year the baitfish go deep to find some cooler water, the bass and walleye usually follow. One lake I fish in MN, I can fish the banks, boat docks, and boat lifts all day long and catch 1-2lb fish. But there is one particular rock bar out off a midlake point that holds big fish in the summer. 

[PABASS]

Seems like MN DNR needs a lesson or two in today's Bass conservation.  I hope if anything comes out of Brandon's loss it will be MN DNR wakes up and takes a look at what other states have been doing and the why behind it.

[Bassfishing375]

Seems like MN DNR needs a lesson or two in today's Bass conservation.  I hope if anything comes out of Brandon's loss it will be MN DNR wakes up and takes a look at what other states have been doing and the why behind it.

Not all MN lakes are like turtle lake, different lakes have different slot limits and regulations. Based on different reasons.

[Basswhippa]

Do you and your bass fishing buddies a favor and inflict fatal injuries on any bass you catch before releasing them if you want larger bass. With so much competition for forage the forage is wiped out. A few that are lucky grow large enough to forage on the small bass and there will be. few giants to be sure. Your only hope is using large lures to keep all the little bass from striking before the big ones can. Normally a lake like this has giant bluegill. MN has some screwed up lake managers.

[shimmy]

It is not always regulations like catch and release that hurt a lake. Some lakes i fish in MN have mandates to release every fish and they are some of the best 4+ pound and big bass lakes i fish. The problem occurs when you get a particular lake that starts to get a few too many 1-2 pound bass, not enough pelicans or other wildlife to balance them out, and then the 1-2 pounders get out of control. Once it gets out of hand, lakes like these need a regulation to keep every bass under 14 inches or something similar to better balance out the lake. Nevertheless, as someone else mentioned, if you are catching all of the dinks at the shore, go deeper and drag a carolina rig or do the old string and anchor to find different depths. But honestly, this takes too long, i would either wait to get electronics or go try one of the other 9,999 lakes nearby. 

 

Just looked at the topo map. The docks at the north to north east end seem to be the only ones closer to deeper water and would probably be the only ones i would waste my time with. The rest of the lake is extremely shallow close in to the docks and i would avoid that. Look at google maps and it gives you better contour lines than the DNR map which is surprisingly crap for this lake. At the google maps or Bing maps (birds eye view) i would hit the channel opening at the northwest side of the lake that looks a few hundred yards away from shore. After that, i would study the google maps for the different coloration showing the contour changes and map it out so when you go out on the lake, you are better prepared. At the south end of the lake, the dnr shows an underwater point and on google maps you can kind of see that as well. I would try around that area. There seems to be several pockets of deeper water all around that as well. If i were to see that lake online and on google maps, i would avoid the shore altogether unless it had some good froggin spots. Good luck.

[Bankbeater]

I have a lake like that around me.  You can catch 4,5,and 6 pounders, but you'll need to get the bait past all of the little ones to do it. 

I finally started using a 3/4 or 1 ounce jig, and t-rig with a heavy weight on it around structure, not cover.  Hopefully something heavy will sink to the bottom and get past the little ones before they see it.

[LVLDVL]

Minnesota certainly is a strange place. For starters, our bass opener is always the last weekend of May and this really hurts for those years when we seem to only have 3 months of summer weather (this year, we still had snow on the ground in mid-May).

 

For general waters with no special regulations, there is no minimum or maximum size restriction for small/largemouth bass. It also doesn't help that most Minnesota anglers are jerks and will liberally keep any black bass from 6" all the way to a 4lbs'ers. And then you'll have some random catch-and-release-only regulations for random lakes/rivers for seemingly no reason like Mississippi Pool 2; Walleyes and black bass must be returned immediately. So you won't protect small metro lakes with a huge concentration of city anglers but you're gonna put a 14" minimum size limit for the St. Croix river which is sustained by a huge river system?

 

And then there's the thing with the catfish. Most Minnesota anglers are too dumb (they think are they elite) to fish for catfish and it is a very niche small community of cat anglers. But then Minnesota puts in a super-strict limit of 5 catfish total, not more than 2 can be flathead, and only 1 fish over 24"!!!

 

Don't get me started on Lake Mille Lacs's walleye slot limit. Immediately release all walleyes less than 18" and greater than 20", W-w-w-w-w-whaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttttttt?!?!?!?!?! B-b-b-b-b-b-b-but the Native Americans get to net!

[Kevin22]

I get to experience your great regulations next week. Leaving friday for a week in MN. The lakes we are staying on are really nice though, not many fishermen but tons of bass. Also tons of catfish, you can catch a catfish every cast if you want. They tear up my frogs, yes catfish on topwater frogs... multiple times a day. Throw a white spinnerbait? hold on.. 3-5lb catfish every 10 casts. Usually average about 100-150 accidental catfish catches in the 7 days of fishing. Nobody on the lake will eat them, the locals will not touch one with a 10 foot pole. Can you guess where I am going? (my avatar picture was taken there)

[LVLDVL]

Leech? Winnibigoshish?

 

(you need to hook me up with the name of that lake if it has nice resorts on it)

 

 

Usually average about 100-150 accidental catfish catches in the 7 days of fishing. Nobody on the lake will eat them, the locals will not touch one with a 10 foot pole.

 

Tell me about it. Walleye anglers want nothing to do with bass anglers, vice versa, and both bass and walleye anglers despise catfish anglers. I just don't get it. The thing is, most of these people aren't even pro's! They just own a boat that has more glitter than a stripper.

[derekxec]

if its catch and release only they should put in auto feeders  and feed them pellets like they do here

[Kevin22]

Leech? Winnibigoshish?

 

(you need to hook me up with the name of that lake if it has nice resorts on it)

 

 

 

Tell me about it. Walleye anglers want nothing to do with bass anglers, vice versa, and both bass and walleye anglers despise catfish anglers. I just don't get it. The thing is, most of these people aren't even pro's! They just own a boat that has more glitter than a stripper.

 

 

Horseshoe chain in richmond. I think there are only two resorts left, the one we go to is always booked. 

[Brian Needham]

sounds like another game and fish commission "success" story ........