Agm Battery Vs Lead Wet Cell

[soopd]

I have a 24v 71lb thrust trolling motor. My batteries are done and I need to replace them. I here conflicting reports on the agm vs lead batteries. It is going to cost me $160 more total to go with AGM batteries.

Is it worth the cost?

[Dwight Hottle]

I just replaced my original Sears platinum batteries after 6 years of service. I spent the extra money and did the same batteries again. They have been very reliable & are maintenance free. I use the electric trolling motor all day when fishing & recharge overnight with an onboard charger. My original batteries never failed me but did run out of power after a half day of fishing so I just decided to replace them anyway. I didn't have any problem with justifing the cost. They are heavy at 75lbs for each group size 31. I also use the same battery now for my starting battery.

 

Power Ratings

• Cold Cranking Amps (CCA at 0 deg.F):
  1150
• Reserve Capacity (RC):
  205 min.
• Amp Hours at 20 Hour Rate:
  100
• Capacity Amp Hours at 10 Hour Rating:
  92

[aavery2]

I have a 24v 71lb thrust trolling motor. My batteries are done and I need to replace them. I here conflicting reports on the agm vs lead batteries. It is going to cost me $160 more total to go with AGM batteries.

Is it worth the cost?

AGM is a lead acid battery, instead of being flooded with electrolyte fluid they are filled with absorbant glass mat, in theory this keeps the checmical closer to the plates and lets them charge and discharge better, they handle vibration a little better , hold a charge if not used daily a little better and often handle more recharge discharge cycles over standard flooded batteries.   Some AGM batteries require a special charge cycle, so be sure your charger is capable of performing correctly with this type of battery.

 

There is a lot of good information on these batteries out there so they are easy to research,   I just bought new batteries for my boat and some of the info is still in my head.

[Way2slow]

Main benefit of AGM's

 

When properly maintained and charged with a good AGM charger,  they will give you a higher cycle count than flooded cells 

They are much safer for saltwater use.

They are less likely to cause corrosion in aluminum boats.

They don't have to be installed with the terminals sticking up, they can be installed standing on end or on their side, but you do loose approx 10% capacity doing that.

Stacked cell AGM's will usually give you a longer life than spiral wound.  As the cells age and swell, the spirals tend to short sooner than the stacked cell because they don't have to abilitly to expand as much.

 

Cons

They will not have the AH capacity of a good, similar size flooded cell,  Mainenance free flooded cells will not have the capacity as one with service caps but still more than similar AGM. 

They cost more.  However, not that much more that a high quality flooded cell, like a Trojan or other top brand.  The higher cycle count should offset the cost difference, but that is only true when using a high quality, AGM charger that will give you the higher cycle count.

[Jig Man]

I switched to Optima blue tops 2 or 3 years ago for the trolling motor.  They have been completely trouble free and have held up all day long without showing a drop in power.  I switched the crank last year to the sears 1150 cca agm because of electronics and voltage drop on my wet cell cranker.

 

The Optimas came from Auto Zone with a 3 year warranty.

[greendragon]

I switched to Optima blue tops 2 or 3 years ago for the trolling motor.  They have been completely trouble free and have held up all day long without showing a drop in power.  I switched the crank last year to the sears 1150 cca agm because of electronics and voltage drop on my wet cell cranker.

 

The Optimas came from Auto Zone with a 3 year warranty.

 

Main benefit of AGM's

 

When properly maintained and charged with a good AGM charger,  they will give you a higher cycle count than flooded cells 

They are much safer for saltwater use.

They are less likely to cause corrosion in aluminum boats.

They don't have to be installed with the terminals sticking up, they can be installed standing on end or on their side, but you do loose approx 10% capacity doing that.

Stacked cell AGM's will usually give you a longer life than spiral wound.  As the cells age and swell, the spirals tend to short sooner than the stacked cell because they don't have to abilitly to expand as much.

 

Cons

They will not have the AH capacity of a good, similar size flooded cell,  Mainenance free flooded cells will not have the capacity as one with service caps but still more than similar AGM. 

They cost more.  However, not that much more that a high quality flooded cell, like a Trojan or other top brand.  The higher cycle count should offset the cost difference, but that is only true when using a high quality, AGM charger that will give you the higher cycle count.

 

I had optis for 5 years and one went bad. This time I went with Duracells from Sams Club. I love agm batteries just charge and forget. I have had the duracells for 10 months now and they are great.

[Optima_Jim]

soopd, unless you plan on using these batteries to start an engine in freezing temperatures, you don't really need to concern yourself too much with cold cranking amps. For trolling motor applications, the numbers that matter most are related to reserve capacity & amp hours, keeping in mind you should only be considering batteries designed for deep-cycle use.

 

Our batteries are up to 15 times more resistant to vibration than flooded batteries, they do have a much lower self-discharge rate than flooded products and are designed to last up to twice as long as flooded products. While some AGM manufacturers may have specific lists of chargers that must be used with their products, we do not- treat it and charge it just as you should any other lead-acid battery.

 

Way2slow, I'm interested in hearing more about why you believe it is a good thing for batteries to swell as they age and why the inability for cells to expand leads to premature shorting. What do you believe causes batteries to swell as they age? How do you define a “good, similar size flooded cell” by which you make your comparisons and how do you feel a flooded battery's rated specifications hold up over the life of a battery, versus an AGM product?

 

Jim McIlvaine

eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries

 

[Way2slow]

I don't get on here much anymore and forgot Optima was a Supporting Advertiser, or I would have never gave my .02 cents.  Because I would have known I would get hammered for it. 

 

 My experience with AGM batteries is based on many years of running them in material handling equipment, powered pallet jacks etc as a service tech for Clark Material Handling, and to be honest with you, I've never gotten good service from the Optima's that came as the OEM batteries.  It was very common to be replacing them after just 12 months in an industrial application.  When Deka came out with their stacked cell AGM, we could run them two to three times longer than the Optima's.  The Deka's also had a greater reserve capacity and the user got noticably more run time between charges with the Deka's.  

 

As for the plates swelling, if they don't swell, what is it that's causing the ends of the cases to bulge out as the battery ages and starts getting close to the end of it's life cycle.  Anyone that has ever had on old battery will see the ends buldged, this is not just the case doing this, it's the cells pressing against it after they have swollen. 

 

I'm sorry, I'm just not an Optima fan, and feel ya'll have spent huge amounts on advertising your product to be the greatest thing since sliced bread but I'm not sold.  I have been asked to not say anything about them by a modirator, one reason I quit posting on here.  

 

I didn't specificaly mention Optima batteries in my fist post because of that, only the generic spiral wound batteries. 

 

As the old saying goes:

You can please some of the people all of the time

All of the people some of the time

But, you can't please all of the people all of the time, 

 

I'm just one of those that have never been pleased with spiral wound batteries, when I gotten much better service and longer run time from stacked cell batteries.

[Optima_Jim]

Way2slow, even though you were asked by a moderator not to say anything about our products, I want you (and the moderator) to know that we have no problems with members posting any of their personal experiences with our products or their experiences with other brands. We don't advertise on forums to silence critics, we do it to be an active and engaged member of communities that use our products. When folks have issues with our products, we want to know about them and do what we can to address them.

 

There are certainly less expensive OE battery options for manufacturers to choose when outfitting vehicles and equipment. Our batteries end up in many of these applications, because they pass rigorous tests that other brands do not. Some of these are related specifically to vibration in an application, cycle life or performance under extreme temperatures. While that often works in theory, the reality is that once our batteries and the equipment they are installed in goes to customers, they are not always used or maintained in the manner designed or intended by the manufacturer. Batteries are often left in deeply-discharged states for extended periods of time and/or overcharged with unregulated chargers or maintained with units that were not designed to recover deeply-discharged batteries.

 

As an example, we were getting numerous complaints from one customer that our batteries were showing up and failing load tests before they were even installed in equipment. As it turned out, the customer was attempting to load-test batteries equipped with threaded terminals, without using proper terminal adaptors. Threaded posts on batteries (including marine batteries) were never designed or intended to be the point of contact, through which power is transferred. They are only the means by which users can secure their connections through wingnuts or other fasteners to the terminal base, where the real connection to the battery should be made. That simple explanation corrected what was perceived to be a major issue.

 

As for bulging cases, I wanted to make sure I gave a comprehensive response, so I did contact one of our engineers and asked him what would cause a flat plate battery to bulge in an industrial application (powered pallet jacks). Immediately, he indicated that flat plate batteries will bulge when they are overcharged. When too much current is pumped into a battery and it has nowhere to go, batteries are designed to vent this excess pressure. When the pressure still exceeds the vent port's ability to disperse it, the heat generated by excessive charge rates will cause the batteries themselves to bulge and expand. This is not a good thing, in fact it is quite the opposite.

 

As he continued to ask about this application and I shared the information you posted, he indicated the Optima batteries were likely deeply-discharged and recharged with a battery charger that was not properly-regulated or designed to charge these batteries. The same charging issue that may have caused the Optimas to fail may also be causing the flat-plate replacements to bulge. He indicated the replacement batteries are physically heavier and as a result are likely to have more reserve capacity, which could result in those batteries not being discharged so deeply. Batteries are consumable items, so each cycle of use moves the battery closer to the end of it's life cycle. Shallower discharge cycles will lead to longer lifespans, so batteries that have more reserve capacity in a deep-discharge application may see longer lifespans. However, the fact that these flat-plate batteries are bulging indicates their useful lifespan is also likely being diminished significantly due to overcharging. Do you recall what types of chargers you were using in this application and what the settings were?

 

Jim McIlvaine

eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries

 

[james 14]

Jim, I bought my boat from a guy this past January and it had two Optima Blue Tops he said he bought in May of last year. I have a suspicion that one may be bad but haven't confirmed it yet (may be the charger...or may be both). I couldn't find anywhere on the battery to indicate the age but there is a bar code. Is there anything that can be done with warranty in my situation?

[Glenn]

I'm sorry, I'm just not an Optima fan, and feel ya'll have spent huge amounts on advertising your product to be the greatest thing since sliced bread but I'm not sold.  I have been asked to not say anything about them by a modirator, one reason I quit posting on here.  

 

 

 

I'm sorry, what?!  You were asked by a moderator not to say anything negative? I have a serious problem with that. 

 

That's not how I roll.

 

I have not encouraged nor authorized any moderator to say anything like that to members.  In fact, I'm always telling the moderators that we need to be fair and honest when speaking about sponsors' products, the good AND the bad.  Otherwise we're doing a disservice to our members. So I'm not pleased at all to hear a moderator said something to you that's completely contrary to my direction.

 

Please PM me about this moderator.  If you could, please share the PM with me if you still have it.  My sole intent is to coach the moderator so that this does not happen again.

 

Thank you,

Glenn

[derekxec]

i have used optima batteries before quite a bit and have only had one that didnt last very long but was warrantied fine

 

also if the consumer doesnt give feedback on problems the company would have a hard time finding out the problems existed so they could make a fix...really you are doing them a favor because there is too many variables in the world to make a perfect product so they can only make it as perfect as the information they have

[Way2slow]

Optima_Jim

I need to apologize for one comment. Glenn sent me a PM questioning the moderator comment and I actually still had it from a year ago. After going back and reading it, He DID NOT, ask me not to make negative comments about the Optima battery. He just asked me to try and be more positive about them. Kinda the same but not quite as bad and not posting negative comments. That was a year ago, and it discouraged me from posting for a while.

[Optima_Jim]

james 14, please send me a PM with your contact information and the serial number located on the white 1”x3” “Non-Spillable” label on the side of your batteries. Way2slow, not a problem. Don't feel compelled to speak more positively about our products for our sake (unless you really feel that way). We prefer honest feedback

 

Jim McIlvaine

eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries

[S Hovanec]

Love my Optimas. I installed 3 (a starting and 2 trolling) when I bought my boat 8 years ago and they're still going. The trolling batteries seem to discharge a little quicker, but after 8 years, can I really complain? Lol