Hypothetical Experiment: Skill Vs. Equipment

[.ghoti.]

I have a lot better gear now than I had twenty years ago. And I seem to do better now. I don't think the better gear has much to do with it. I have twenty years more experience to bring to the table, and that is the difference.

I do enjoy my better equipment, but I don't think it has a lot of impact on my catch. It probably does give me a small edge, but nothing extraordinary.

[HeavyDluxe]

All the gear and money wont catch you much if you do not understand fish habitat and fish behavior.

...

 

Look at it this way, all pro baseball players swing the same bats (within reason), some get paid millions, some get paid millions more then the other man. The guys who make the most money are not always going to be hitting the ball well, it still comes down to skill. Perfect analogy? No, but sort of gets the point across.

 

+1.  This.  Like the cut of his jib, and all that.

 

Knowing how to read the water and the target fish (whether you call that experience or skill) is far and away more important than equipment.  I think it's a sign of how highly marketed-to we are that this is even up for debate.  Without the skill to find fish, determine their 'posture' (active, neutral, negative), and then decide what presentations might produce a bite, you are primarily relying on luck/coincidence to catch fish.  

 

That's not bad, mind you, but that's what it is.

 

And all that 'thinking' which sets the elite fisherman apart from the scubs like me happens before they even wet a line - that is, before rod/reel/line/lure equipment ever comes into play.

 

Now, I'm willing to accept that a highly sensitive rod will increase hookups for particular presentations... But, I have to be honest, even there I'm skeptical that the difference is as severe as we often seem to think.

[Flukeman]

95% of bass fishing is knowledge and location. I know some guys who win tournaments all the time with lower end gear. Humans are adaptable to what they have to use and will become proficient with it. I think if buying higher end or lower end equipment makes you enjoy the pastime more, then go for it.

 

Besides, were talking about a fish you can catch on a chunk of hot dog!

[SissySticks]

I"m somewhere in between. I have some very high end rods, but most were bought on ultra-clearance. I keep my tackle for a long time, so I can afford to wait for things to go on clearance. However, I have a bunch of $50 castaway spinning rods with tennessee handles (some of which I use regularly, and some of which are loaners) and I'm convinced that I could catch all the same fish with them if I didn't have my $200 quantums and shimanos, lews and customs. I just like the expensive stuff and it enhances my enjoyment of the sport, but I don't think it enhances my catch. Check out In-Fisherman writer Ned Kehde's equipment. It's antiquated (and cheap to-boot), he fishes "slack-line" baits 100% of the time, and I can say from personal experience he catches more fish per hour than any fisherman I've ever been in a boat with, bar none, including some professional tournament anglers and LOADS of guides who used some of the most expensive equipment available.

[Hyrule Bass]

obviously some of you have never dropshotted with an ugly stik. i have great success doing so. i'd love for people to tell me why they think they cant or why they just wont drop shot with an ugly stik. and dont give me that sensitivity bullcrap because i dont buy it. give me experience/skill over equipment anyday. i can fish for bass just fine with an ugly stik, then turn around that night using the same ugly stik and pull in nice catfish all night long. and it wont break on a hookset. personally, id rather not have to deal with returns and customer service reps and all that like many of you do when your high dollar rod snaps in two less than week after you got it. sounds like a waste of time and money, especially when i can buy an ugly stik and do the same things that $150 rod will do, and do them just as good without worrying about it breaking. yep, ill take skill

 

ive previously made it known here im not a fan of high dollar rods, i asked advice for a rod in the $100 range here once, all i got were suggestions that didnt match the criteria i listed or suit the reel i was putting on it, i ended up just buying another ugly stik and was totally satisfied, and glad i didnt spend a $100 on a rod. but what i will spend on is reels, but there is a limit there too. do i need to spend a lot on reels? no. ive had great days using a push button shakespeare reel i paid 20 bucks for the combo at walmart. most all my PBs come on that rod and reel too. ive caught and landed stripers on it as well and the gears didnt get torn all out. why am i sharing this? i know it sounds like a rambling rant/rave, but its to prove my point and show why i would take skill and experience over equipment any day. theres nothing wrong with owning nice things or high end things, and maybe the owner can justify it, but there are just certain things i cannot justify spending on whether i have the money or not...

[Sodus Bay Scooter]

I think the biggest factor is presentation. Equipment can make or break presentation. And equipment also becomes important when you're trying to get that fish in your hands.

That being said, if you can present said bait with a cheaper setup as effective as an expensive one then you've answered your question.

[hatrix]

I don't think it matters very much in reality on what you use. I have wrecked some fish using like $40-50 spinning combos from places like wal-mart and stuff. While at the same time the people I am fishing with are using combos using 4-5x the cost of what I'm using. In the end I think it comes down to experience and time on the water. The advantage of having a nice rod is being able to tell what your lure is bumping into and you get a little more in tune with that bait.

I think experience is like 95% of it and gear only plays a small factor. You can have the most sensitive rod in the world and rip a bait on braided line out of the weeds while a fish come from behind and knocks even more slack in your line. You will probably never feel that bite. You just have to know.

[Felix77]

I wouldn't consider myself experienced enough to comment on this with one exception.  Sensitivity is a big factor in finesse fishing especially with with lighter lures.  I have a $50 setup and a $200 setup and when fishing a shakey head I can feel a whole lot more with the $200 setup.

 

Boy this sounds a lot like the old "Is a $400 driver really going to make you a better golfer" debate.

 

Very interesting feedback from you all.

[Sodus Bay Scooter]

I wouldn't consider myself experienced enough to comment on this with one exception. Sensitivity is a big factor in finesse fishing especially with with lighter lures. I have a $50 setup and a $200 setup and when fishing a shakey head I can feel a whole lot more with the $200 setup.

Boy this sounds a lot like the old "Is a $400 driver really going to make you a better golfer" debate.

Very interesting feedback from you all.

If I pay $400 for a driver it better make me better! Lol

[BradGuenette]

It's fairly simply, fish with what you can afford. Sure I don't need Dobyns Extremes & Loomis GLX's, but are they a pleasure to fish, and I wouldn't want to use anything else. I by no means have a ton of extra disposable income to spend on fishing gear, but I save for everything put money aside monthly when you have enough to go buy those more expensive items rod/reels do so. I saved for just over a year to buy my full line of Extremes.

[HeavyDluxe]

Just to be clear, anyone categorically stating that "better" equipment doesn't help you catch more fish is being ridiculous.  By way of obvious example, using sharper and more well constructed fish hooks is obviously going to lead to "more effective" hooksets and probably to more fish landed if all other things are equal.

 

However, I think there's room to debate how much "better" a better hook really is... If I buy Cap'n McFishstick hooks off the shelf at Walmart, I'm betting there's a clear and marked difference between those and some Mustad or Gammie hooks.  The problem is that, by nature, fishing in the real world means that every bite/hookset is likely a little different.  So, it's really hard to objectively and quantifiably compare some of these products.

 

But, IMNSHO, the more important fact is that I have to get the fish to strike in the first place before the sharpness of the hook is even an issue.  And, broadly speaking, I think you can present baits to fish in a way that entices a strike with equipment at all price levels.  Are they equal?  No.  But I suspect most are adequate.

[otulp78]

In general, experience is superior to equipment, but that doesn't diminish the importance of equipment. High end equipment will ultimately help you catch more fish compared to low end equipment. Of course, there's diminishing returns so you have to ask yourself if its worth it.

 

To answer the original poster's question, I suspect it would turn out something like this:

 

Suppose you caught 100 fish over the summer (Using round number for the sake of argument) using a stella/nrx combo. If you would have used the following combos instead, you would have caught approximately:

 

stella/nrx: 100

stradic/avid: 97

sahara/mojo: 90

walmart spiderman pole: 35

 

A lot of the people who think that high end equipment doesn't matter usually make comments like "I can outfish my friend who uses high end gear with my low end gear" or "I know someone who wins tournaments with low end gear against others with high end gear". If you're thinking this, then you're not asking the right question. The question you should be asking is "would you be able to outfish yourself, if you used low end gear and the other you used high end gear?" Imagine you using the spiderman fishing pole from walmart competing against another you using a stella/nrx combo. Who do you think wins?

 

 

[hooah212002]

 Who do you think wins?

 

The comparison you've made is terrible at best. Why would you compare a childrens  fishing pole to high end bass fishing gear? first of all, a spiderman pole is only 3 feet long.

 

This post is exactly the sort of thinking I addressed in my first post in this thread. Why do you guys associate "Walmart stuff" with ony crappy gear? Do you realize they sell Black Max combos? They have the new Quantum EXO's as well. They also sell Power Pro and Sufix. Also Gamakatsu hooks. So this idea of Walmart only selling crap,.. is a crap idea.

 

You ought to compare an actual budget set up. One that someone would actually buy for bass fishing. Like a Black Max combo that is $60. Give me that and all other things being equal, you have no distinct advantage.

 

Welcome to the fray, by the way.

[wnybassman]

I'd like to think I could catch 37 or 38 fish on the Spidey pole.    lol

[otulp78]

Why would you compare a childrens  fishing pole to high end bass fishing gear?

 

Why do you guys associate "Walmart stuff" with ony crappy gear?

 

Give me that and all other things being equal, you have no distinct advantage.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Walmart only sells crappy gear. I only used it as a reference in case someone didn't know what I was referring to. I buy fishing stuff at Walmart too.

 

Also it shouldn't be you against me. It should be you against yourself. Are you saying that Hooah212002 with a black max combo will catch the same amount of fish as Hooah212002 with an Revo MGXtreme/NRX combo over the course of 5 years?

[hooah212002]

Also it shouldn't be you against me. It should be you against yourself. Are you saying that Hooah212002 with a black max combo will catch the same amount of fish as Hooah212002 with an Revo MGXtreme/NRX combo over the course of 5 years?

 

That is an inaccurate metric. You are putting ALL stock in your gear. You are essentially saying that it is the gear that makes the fisherman. You are saying "if you spend more money, you will be a better fisherman". That is simply not the case. Also, I remain unconvinced that your proposed combo would by itself cause me to catch more fish than a Black Max (all other factors being equal).

 

"I'm not catching fish today. Better go to Bass Pro and buy that $300 reel so I can catch a few"

 

Now, would I prefer more expensive name brand gear if for no other reason than being shallow? yes. A million times yes. Do I also realize that more expensive normally (but not always) equates to better quality? Yes, yes I do. But to unequivocally state that more money equals more fish is borderline flatout...wrong. If you've got some evidence that says otherwise, I am all ears. We've already got personal testimony in this thread alone that disagrees with you.

[Oldplug]

I am one of those old ugly stik guys. I have owned them since the first year they were made. I do not need a highly sensitive rod to feel. I can feel very well though my stiks. That is something else that is only learned through experience. I just feel a lot of his high priced stuff is being pushed on people.

I want to relate something funny happened to me concerning ugly stiks. The first year they were made they gave you a baseball cap with ugly stik rods printed on it. Well we were in a restaurant and with my manners being what they are I left my hat on. I noticed some people at another table giving me dirty looks. Next thing I know the manager of the restaurant shows up and tells me there was no sexual references allowed in the restaurant. I told him that it was a fishing rod and he was skeptical and ask me totally it off. I did only because my wife did not want me to challenge it .

[iabass8]

bats fly left when they leave a cave

[otulp78]

Hooah212002,

 

You are totally misunderstanding what I am saying. Let me give you 2 scenarios to clarify my point.

 

Scenario #1

 

You have more skill, knowledge and experience than me. You fish with a $60 combo and I fish with a $600 combo. Everything else being equal over a 1 year period.

Your conclusion: You will outfish me.

My conclusion: I agree 100% with you.

 

Scenario #2

 

We have the exact same skill, knowledge and experience. You fish with a $600 combo and I fish with a $60 combo. Everything else being equal over a 1 year period.

Your conclusion: We will catch the same amount of fish.

My conclusion: I disagree. You will catch more fish than me by a small percent.

 

Hope this makes sense. What's my proof? Simple. If gear does not impact the number of fish you catch, then everyone would by the cheapest gear possible. Why go for a $60 combo when you can catch the same amount of fish for $30?

[SirSnookalot]

There are many positive aspects to any fishing forum, but negatives as well.  It's easy to get "programmed" into buying this brand or that brand and the fishermen using the more expensive gear are having more fun.  Catching more and or larger fish comes down to 2 main factors and that's knowing how to do it and where to do it at.  Debates over the "best" are really nothing but self justification for buying a certain item.  IMO if one wants to get the most out of BR, learn the techniques, how to read the environment, the hot fishing areas and the species running at that time, the lines, rods, reels, hooks and all that will take care of itself.

[jerzeeD]

I see it this way.... A good Auto mechanic can fix most problems with a limited set of husky tools, but with 20k in Snap on tools he can fix cars with less chance of tool failure, greater comfort of his hands/wrists, and maybe the job is easier based on tool design. However, A pianist will never be capable of quick and proper car repairs no matter what tools are at his disposal. Same with fishing, concentrate on learning and upgrade gear as you get more proficient in using different techniques.

[hooah212002]

What's my proof? Simple. If gear does not impact the number of fish you catch, then everyone would by the cheapest gear possible. Why go for a $60 combo when you can catch the same amount of fish for $30?

 

Why would people buy the most expensive gear? Easy: this is a hobby people enjoy and when people enjoy a hobby, they like to have nice toys to enjoy that hobby with. I have already admitted that at some point on the price scale there is higher quality (*higher price equates to higher quality). I have already ceded the point that the ultra cheap/budget gear is likely to not be worth the effort since you will likely have to replace it often due to breakage (note that I am talking about the $20 Shakespeare baitcasters and the like even though I, personally, have no problem fishing them). Ok, I have yet to actually say that second one, but I think I implied it.

 

Is the difference going to be grand if you use a cane pole with a piece of yarn and I use a $600 something or other? YES.

 

Is the difference going to be there at all if I use a budget rod/reel and you use a high end-look how much money I have-rod/reel? I remain utterly unconvinced. You could, however, provide better argument than "it costs more, so it MUST catch more fish". You've yet to do anything more than assert that price ALONE directly equates to more fish.

[JoePhish]

^{Skill and knowledge will take you a lot further than owning expensive gear.}

^{I've felt this way my whole life because of a family story.}

^{When my father was "courting" my mother he was invited to go fishing with my mom's dad. Now it wasn't bass fishing and it was on a party boat but fishing never the less.}

^{My grandfather was an old salt in the fullest sense of the word. My dad on the otherhand, was more of a land lubber.}

^{Dad wanted to impress so he went out and bought the latest and greatest gear out there. When he met up with my granfather at the boat all Grand Dad  had was a hand line. My grandfather proceeded to outfish my father and every other person on the boat with that hand line.}

^{I really wish he lived longer because I would have loved to go fishing with the man. Instead, I think I inherited his fishing genes.}

 

^{Unfortunately as a result I was the kid down at the local pond with a cane pole. I still outfished my peers. (No bass in the pond. Just panfish, Bullheads and goldfish (gasp).}

^{To this day I'm more of a bankg for the buck type of guy when it comes to fishing gear.}

 

^{PS - My personal best was on an ugly stick.}

[Trailer]

In this experiment would we be able to use a Zebco 33 Classic or Revo Winch on the Ugly Stick?

[SudburyBasser]

I think most people use higher end equipment because it makes fishing more enjoyable. Thats why I fish I enjoy it and using a nice rod and reel just make the experience that much better.

 

Ditto, couldn't have said it better myself.