Help With Heavy Powered Rod, It Keeps Back Lashing

[The Rooster]

I have a heavy powered, fast action 6'6" Cabela's Tourney Trail rod rated for 5/8 - 1 1/2 oz. lures. It has an old, but still new from the box, BPS Extreme baitcast reel on it. I spooled it with Berkley Sensations 17 pound line.

Now that the details are out of the way, here's what's happening. I've had it out fishing it just 3 times so far, and not very long each time either, so it's entirely possible that I'm just not used to it yet. Also, the first and third times I used it, it was pretty windy out, but the second time was dead calm. I'm sure the wind plays into it some when it backlashes but it does it even when it's not windy as well. I've been using it to throw a hollow bodied frog (no backlashes then) and 3 different spinnerbaits (backlash city). All lures were within the range recommended for the rod, especially one spinnerbait which was at the top of the range, of which it had the least amount of back lashing with that one. I've also made a few casts with a 10" worm on a 5/0 EWG hook and 1/4 oz. weight. No trouble then.

I also have several more of these same reels with lesser pound test line that I use on other different rated rods, and I cast them successfully all the time, including in this same wind with no backlashes (1/4 oz. crankbait was casted repeatedly with no problem, even into the wind, on 12 pound mono), and also a Shimano Curado throwing a heavy jig with plastic trailer, also no backlashes. So, while I'd think wind plays a part in the backlashing on this one rod, it's nowhere near the whole reason.

I'm wondering if the line is part of it, I've never used 17 pound line before. Also, never used a heavy rod before but doesn't that just have more to do with what size lures I can throw? Also, I might have too much line on the reel, it is pretty full up. Can this effect it since it's a heavier line?

I have the reel's magnetic brakes set at about 8 - 9 out of a possible 10, and the spool tension is not as loose as it will go, though the lure falls pretty fast when released. This is how I cast all my others as well, except with them I have the spool tension even more loose.

I also wonder if this rod should just be used for more special casts, like pitching short distances, or for just the heaviest of baits being thrown into gnarly places, instead of using it for cast and retrieve baits? I had originally thought I'd use it for spinnerbaits, buzzbaits, jigs, worms, and topwater frogs.

[Jrob78]

It's probably the result of throwing very wind resistant spinnerbaits in the wind with heavy line on a reel that is too full.  Take a little of the line off and tighten your spool tension some.  Heavier line will normally give you more issues than light line.

[The Rooster]

Ok, I'll be sure to try that. I've backlashed it so many times recently anyway that I'm sure the first, and probably second, full length casts worth of line is boogered up pretty good. It will need cut off anyway.

I also thought it might be the resistance of the spinnerbaits as well. That's gonna suck if that's the reason because I really wanted to use this rod for that. So much that a new reel might be in order. And to that effect, I'm wondering if a simple upgrade to a Pro Qualifier might help since it has centrifugal brakes. My Curado E has them and I can cast spinnerbaits in wind with it pretty well.

[Jrob78]

I had a similar issue last year when I put 20 lb fluoro on a rod and reel I was used to throwing braid with.  It took more getting adjusted to than I had planned.

[flippin and pitchin]

Here's a thought Rooster. Heavy action rods have low flex. They load fast and unload fast. The process of loading and unloading is so fast it generates speed and the spool rotates quickly at the beginning. Magnetic brakes are designed to slow the spool at the end of the cast. Put the reel on a moderate action rod and cast it for a awhile and see if the backlash issue persists. Some times a little extra line between the tip and the lure can help with this issue. Try that and see if it helps.

[motodmast]

Sometimes with a heavy bait like that, i like to throw it like i throw a weightless bait. Alot of line out, almost 2ft or more, and instaid of whipping the rod with 2 hands, just do a nice steady 1 arm lob, if that makes since.

[Hooligan]

I would put it more to the line and the resistance of the baits than anything else. Drop back to 15# line or a smaller diameter, or possibly even a softer line and you will have a lot less issue. Sensation isn't known fir its suppleness, many fluorocarbon lines are softer and manage better on the spool.

Also, Flippin, to disseminate the actual method th st is used in braking; Mag brakes provide consistent braking throughout the cast. They are not intended to work only at the end of the cast, nor do they only. The true force working on the spool at the end of the cast is spool tension. Mag brakes work in conjunction with it, but to control a backlash at the end of the cast you rely more on tension of the spool, direct force. Which is also why your thumb is so effective.

[dodgeguy]

don't throw spinnerbaits on a heavy action rod with a stiff tip.also adjust your reel tension.there is no reason you shouldn't be able to cast a spinnerbait with 17 and 20 lb line.magnetic brakes also do not control backlash as well as centrifugal brakes.dual brakes are the best of both worlds.the pro qualifier has them.the best brake imho is the  adjustable centrifugal brake on the abu garcia mgx.

[.RM.]

Try keeping the lures you throw on that rod in the rods lure rating range.

Min 5/8 oz. lure rating and your casting 1/4 oz. your going to have nothing but trouble with a heavy action rod.  

properly balanced tools for the job...

 

Just an old rod builders .02¢

 

Tight Lines! 

[Raul]

Heavy line, stiff rod, light lures, low spool tension and lures with the same wind resistance of a kite ----> backlash self explanatory .

[motodmast]

I have a heavy powered, fast action 6'6" Cabela's Tourney Trail rod rated for 5/8 - 1 1/2 oz. lures. It has an old, but still new from the box, BPS Extreme baitcast reel on it. I spooled it with Berkley Sensations 17 pound line.

Now that the details are out of the way, here's what's happening. I've had it out fishing it just 3 times so far, and not very long each time either, so it's entirely possible that I'm just not used to it yet. Also, the first and third times I used it, it was pretty windy out, but the second time was dead calm. I'm sure the wind plays into it some when it backlashes but it does it even when it's not windy as well. I've been using it to throw a hollow bodied frog (no backlashes then) and 3 different spinnerbaits (backlash city). All lures were within the range recommended for the rod, especially one spinnerbait which was at the top of the range, of which it had the least amount of back lashing with that one. I've also made a few casts with a 10" worm on a 5/0 EWG hook and 1/4 oz. weight. No trouble then.

I also have several more of these same reels with lesser pound test line that I use on other different rated rods, and I cast them successfully all the time, including in this same wind with no backlashes (1/4 oz. crankbait was casted repeatedly with no problem, even into the wind, on 12 pound mono), and also a Shimano Curado throwing a heavy jig with plastic trailer, also no backlashes. So, while I'd think wind plays a part in the backlashing on this one rod, it's nowhere near the whole reason.

I'm wondering if the line is part of it, I've never used 17 pound line before. Also, never used a heavy rod before but doesn't that just have more to do with what size lures I can throw? Also, I might have too much line on the reel, it is pretty full up. Can this effect it since it's a heavier line?

I have the reel's magnetic brakes set at about 8 - 9 out of a possible 10, and the spool tension is not as loose as it will go, though the lure falls pretty fast when released. This is how I cast all my others as well, except with them I have the spool tension even more loose.

I also wonder if this rod should just be used for more special casts, like pitching short distances, or for just the heaviest of baits being thrown into gnarly places, instead of using it for cast and retrieve baits? I had originally thought I'd use it for spinnerbaits, buzzbaits, jigs, worms, and topwater frogs.

if you read the 2nd paragraph, it states he is actually using lures within the rods specs,, at first i didnt see this, but it also says hes casted a 1/4oz no problem?? whats up with that. i think it may be the way your casting?

[Jrob78]

if you read the 2nd paragraph, it states he is actually using lures within the rods specs,, at first i didnt see this, but it also says hes casted a 1/4oz no problem?? whats up with that. i think it may be the way your casting?

 

A 10" worm with 1/4oz weight, weighs a heck of a lot more than 1/4oz.

[motodmast]

A 10" worm with 1/4oz weight, weighs a heck of a lot more than 1/4oz.

ya but it certainly dosn't come close to 5/8oz, the minimum recommended weight for his rod

[The Rooster]

I was saying that I was casting 1/4 oz. lures on another reel just like this on a completely different rod that was made for that weight and had no trouble. What I meant was that I can cast this kind of reel with lighter baits and lighter line just fine as long as the rod was made for it, so my issue wasn't the reel, or so I believed.

On this heavy rod, even though it has the same kind of reel, I wasn't able to cast lures even rated for the rod it was on. I definitely had a spinnerbait that outweighed 5/8 oz. and it still backlashed. The spinnerbait was "rated" for 3/8, which is just head weight, and its actual total weight is 3/4. I casted another one that was rated at 3/4, which is probably a lot closer to 1 1/2 oz.. This still backlashed as well, but not as badly.

Now I did notice someone above said a 1/4 oz. weight and a 10" worm isn't even 5/8 oz. total. What's funny is I can cast this just fine on the heavy rod. But not a spinnerbait. I think the spinnerbait's wind resistance is the main problem here. That, and maybe the heavy line that I probably have to much of on the reel.

[Bass Junkie]

ya but it certainly dosn't come close to 5/8oz, the minimum recommended weight for his rod

On the contrary, I'm willing to bet that it more than comes close to it. It is probably well into the weight range of his rod. As for the OP's issues, it's very unlikely you have your reel over-spooled. If you can see any of the spool's inside edge, you're fine. Flippin' and Pitchin' nailed a good part of you're issue. A rod that heavey, and that short, is going to have a lot of backbone and a very stiff tip. When you go to cast, to rod tip does not flex a lot, and therefor generates a lot of kinetic energy. When you reach the release point of the cast and remove your thumb from the spool all that energy is released into the spool. This means that you have a fairly thick ( .38mm for 17lb. Berkley Sensation) line trying like crazy to get out of it's own way on a spool that's spinning higher than any other situation you likely encounter. Since you are not used to having this high of RPM's, you have your spool tension set, as you said earlier, similar to all your other reels. You are also not used to thumbing this cast profile, and henceforth, you are getting backlashes. I would first decrease the Mag setting to around 6-7, and up the spool tension to where the lure just lowly creeps downward, or even does not move. Then, put less snap and more muscle into your casts, creating a smoother cast profile. This should calm things down considerably, and you can fine-tune from there. Another thing I personally would do is re-spool with some thin diameter line, such as Sunline Super Natural. It measures in at around .33mm at 16lb. test, the same as 12lb. sensation. If you want to take it a step further, condition the line with the line conditioner of your choice. 

[mjseverson24]

I agree with Bass Junkie, rely more heavy on the mechanical breaking system (the spool tensioner) instead of the magnetic breaks. Spinnerbaits should be among the easiest baits to cast, the fact that you are having trouble with them says that you have the reel set up improperly. usually spinnerbaits are cast to targets not open areas so a rediculously long cast usually is not needed. I also have never seen anybody use that heavy of a rod sucessfully for reaction style baits like spinnerbaits and cranks. I would go with a 7" MH with a moderate action or a 7' M with a fast action for these baits. JMO 

 

Mitch

[The Rooster]

Well, I have a MH rod that I normally use for jigs, worms, and spinnerbaits. I got this H rod to have for heavy cover and also figured it might double as a spinnerbait and jig rod, but now I'm starting to think it might be more of a special situation rod, like just keeping a fat jig or worm tied on for throwing into gnarly cover, or for fishing a frog over slop. I got it thinking I'd have a jig on one rod and a T-rig on the other, and either could do spinnerbaits, and I might still use it that way but I also think I'd benefit from a reel that has centrifugal brakes over this magnetic brake reel. It was what I had laying around though so I thought I'd try it. Maybe I'll throw my Curado on it and put the magnetic brake reel on the Curado's rod. I had one on there before and it worked fine.

Anyway, I have some suggestions to try now. A little less line (I can't see even the rim of the spool now, it's that full), or different line, also resetting the reel's adjustments, letting the bait have a bit more line hanging down before casting, and I'll have to reread this thread to remember the rest. Thanks all. One last thing, and I might have already said it, I can't remember, is that I did treat the line with KVD L&L spray. I'm a fanatic about that.