Bucket Fishermen

[CoBass]

To the OP, I don't think I would be going around wrecking people's gear because your a little upset about 5 bluegill... get real man. If your that angry, call the warden.

Agreed. Things vary by state but where I live you could actually be the one that gets in trouble for doing something like this. We have a law on the books here that prohibits interfering with someone who is actively hunting or fishing. There was a case several years ago where a guy took it upon himself to release a large bass from a shore anglers stringer. He was arrested and it wound up costing him a $500 fine. Sabotaging someones gear would definitely get you the same treatment.

[xbacksideslider]

At a public lake local to me, every weekend, there are boats that ferry groups of bait fishermen out to various points, drop them on the rocks, leave them there for most of the day, ferry them back to the dock later.  I've seen bags of undersized fish.  Looks to be illegal in many ways; poaching/commercial fishing to me . . . . the fact that they appear to be recent immigrants would make enforcement, in the opinion of some, racist, I'd guess. 

 

Slot limits work - allowing the take of middling sized fish and C&R for the smaller and the larger (more fertile) fish.

 

Some lakes, loaded with stunted middling fish, ought to be fished commercially for fish of that size.  But that proposal is iconoclastic.  Same thing - commercial fishing - should happen with fisheries that are over loaded with Snakehead and Flying Carp - try telling that to a Fish & Game commissioner.  Heresy.

 

Too often, the law enforcement/game warden model fails.   If someone owned the fish and therefore had the right to inspect buckets/chests and charge a fee at the dock or point of egress, the enforcement would be better.  High price for undersized and oversized, low price for midsized.

 

Game wardens, good and bad, get paid anyway, no matter whether they catch poachers or not.  Yeah, they try to do their job but how hard?   The incentives are inadequate, or even perverse, they don't get paid a lot more for doing their job really well.  Internal politics matters most.  They are good people, just not any better or worse, as a class or job category, than anyone else.

 

Maybe bonuses/bounties for wardens?  Rewards for to the public under "we tip" hotllines?  Or, privatize the fisheries.

[Teal]

. . . . the fact that they appear to be recent immigrants would make enforcement, in the opinion of some, racist, I'd guess.

.. But that proposal is iconoclastic.

Game wardens, good and bad, get paid anyway, no matter whether they catch poachers or not. Yeah, they try to do their job but how hard? The incentives are inadequate, or even perverse, they don't get paid a lot more for doing their job really well. Internal politics matters most. They are good people, just not any better or worse, as a class or job category, than anyone else.

Maybe bonuses/bounties for wardens? Rewards for to the public under "we tip" hotllines? Or, privatize the fisheries.

Enforcement would seem racist? Just because they are immigrants? While a few narrow minded people may agree with that, i say "who cares?" GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS SHOULD NOT THINK THAT WAY. Why be affraid to tick some one off or make a narrow minded person think that...thats whats wrong with our society, people are too scared to hurt somones feelings when you know you are doing the right thing. right is right and wrong is wrong.

ICONOCLASTIC. WOW..you get bonus points for using that in a sentence. I am not being a smart tail... actually impressed.

Game wardens and incentives? Do you expect to get a crappy meal at resturant just because the people there dont get paid much, and probably have ZERO INCENTIVES? Cops, firemen, game wardens, EMS personell all know what they sign up for and what the money is. And yes there is are incentives, one and is called pride and the other is promotion. Not all entities are super political. I agree that the pay and benefits need to be better.

Bonuses and gratuities to wardens for more production..ILLEGAL and it can lead to corruption. Production based pay and quotas are illegal. Bonus for x number of tickets or arrests are illegal.

Reward the public for doing their civic duty to place that they fish...thats laughable. Why bribe people to do the right thing when you should demand it!

I repsect you opinions and a couple them were well thought, however, i do not agree.

Just two cents from a an ex cop, EMT, now working in Lake Management.

[FD.]

Sounds like a matter of 'mind your own business' to me.  They are fishing just like you if they are not breaking the rules.  Sounds like a clear case of high-horse bullying to me.  

 

 

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.  I see way to many of these "bucket fishermen" threads.  The underlying tone in many of these sounds like " I C&R so I am better than you".  No one ever comes right out and says that, but that's what is sounds like me.  And I can't understand what the statement "they look like immigrants" has to do with anything.

 

I practice C&R 99 percent of the time.  I take small fish out of fish management areas (because that is what the FMA is for) or I'll keep a fish that will most likely die if released.  If I see someone obviously not following the rules then I notify my local FWC office and let them handle it.  I don't have a badge and I'm not a Judge so it's not up to me to get in the middle of it.

[kylek]

I did something one time a bit mean in hindsite, but I felt it was justified. A foreign couple were at a pond I fish hauling bluegill into a bucket. They had 5 already and I felt that was enough, so I gave them a "tip." I bent the hook behind the barb 90 degrees and told them they would hook more. LOL

 

 

This bolded line really gets to me.... I mean really??  YOU felt that was enough??? Who the heck made you the judge and jury?  I sure as heck am not gonna have someone, let a lone a 16yr old,  tell me that I can or can't take fish home that I catch.

[Brian Needham]

some catch and release guys go way to far......I mean some of these "bucket fishermen" have been doing it for 40 years, and I have RARELY seen a bucket type catch any amount of numbers to harm anything.

 

I like it when they take out crappie....means more for my bass to eat.

I do lots of bluegill fishing too, and if I catch 50 "filletable" then I got 50 in the box.... I then bring them to my golf course and "feed" my bass and release them ..... big 3/4 pound bluegill too.

 

unless people are breaking the law, many "boaters" should mind their own business.

[Jrob78]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.  I see way to many of these "bucket fishermen" threads.  The underlying tone in many of these sounds like " I C&R so I am better than you".  No one ever comes right out and says that, but that's what is sounds like me. 

I agree completely.  Right about the same time this thread was started, another was started suggesting that live bait fishermen are "lazy."  I would say that 97% of bass fisherman are good, honest, humble people but that other 3% have an awfully high opinion of themselves and what they do.  This arrogance is disgusting and makes all of us look like idiots.

[DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only]

I think some people are looking at this all wrong. Its one thing to catch some fish and eat it. It is a entirely different thing to abuse the resource. I have seen some people (no offense, but mostly south Americans) fill their buckets with everything and anything that will bite a hook. It's not that they don't know the rules it's that they don't care. I speak Spanish and have tried to educate them in their own language. They don't understand fishing for sport, preserving the resource. If the bass is 3inches and they can get one bite of meat out of it they are eating it. Game Wardens in these parts are few and far between and focus more on public parks than small ponds and lakes. These people around here know this. They will even pull out casting nets, no fish is safe they all go in the bucket. Just try to imagine going to your "secret" spot and fishing next to the guy casting a net. I am not saying in no way that it is all south Americans because it is NOT! It just takes a few though to give others a bad name.

Jay-

[Brian Needham]

I did something one time a bit mean in hindsite, but I felt it was justified. A foreign couple were at a pond I fish hauling bluegill into a bucket. They had 5 already and I felt that was enough, so I gave them a "tip." I bent the hook behind the barb 90 degrees and told them they would hook more. LOL

 

look kid, I am not going to be rude........I will say, if that is you in your avatar then most "buckets" have been fishing more than you been alive....maybe you should talk to them and ask how they are doing, how are the fish biting.....ya know show some respect.

 

I fish some lakes here around me where the old black farm hands will ask to hold your boat rope while you park ..... and you know what, you let them do it and you give them a few bucks. Its called RESPECT, they give it so you give it back to them...its always PLEASE , SIR , and THANK YOU ..them to me and I to them.......on the bucket deal I have caught catfish on jigs or chatterbaits before and kept for the sole intent  to give to a bucket guy......... they were THANKFUL, not cause someone gave them something cause they havnt caught jack crap in 3 days and were hungry!!!

 

you need to get off your elitist attitude and be thankful for what you have......... I mean you got sponsors right kid? I would hate to know that company is giving you stuff knowing you are sabotaging other fishermen instead of promoting the sport you say you love.

 

END OF RANT.........

[BassinB]

you need to get off your elitist attitude and be thankful for what you have......... I mean you got sponsors right kid? I would hate to know that company is giving you stuff knowing you are sabotaging other fishermen instead of promoting the sport you say you love.

 

END OF RANT.........

this.

[etommy28]

Actually in some parts of Florida more fish need to be kept, in many of the private lakes there are too many fish between 10 and 16 inches that it keeps them from getting big. There is also a theory i have heard about okeechobee that the reason you see so many 5-7 pound fish but few over 9 is because there are too many small fish because you cant keep them and they are out eating some of the prey for the big fish. esp. when the water drops and they are pushed off shore to feed on shad.

[senile1]

There are a lot of good points here. 

1. We have no right to say anything if other anglers are obeying the law.
2. We could be placing ourselves in danger if we criticize someone for keeping fish and he or she turns out to have a hair-trigger temper.  Reporting the event to the authorities is always the best bet.
3. We should take care of our fisheries.  For some fisheries that means catch and release for the most part.  For others, selective harvest is necessary to maintain good fishing.

There is one other thing I want to add that some have touched on in this thread.  Some, but not all, of these bucket fishermen are very likely poor and are one step away from being on the street.  I think we should try to see the world through their eyes sometimes.  If you've ever hit rock bottom you know what I am talking about.  If your children were mal-nourished or you had to choose between food and Grandma's life-saving medication the decision to catch a number of fish over the limit to allow you to achieve those goals might be a very strong motivation.  I'm not saying it is ok to destroy our fisheries, or that these people shouldn't be looking for a job, but often, things aren't as black and white as we like to see them.  A little compassion and thankfulness that we aren't in those shoes is in order at times.

[CPBassFishing]

A lot of good stuff in here. I realize that what I did was immature and I hope nobody thinks the worse of me. Just let the thread die now.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

Ok, I think he gets it.

 

He hasn't responded but hopefully he has been reading the responses and absorbing some of the very valid points that have been brought up. I just want to remind people, he is a kid.

 

Just pointing that out, especially to those throwing around the "elitist" comments. While they may be well intentioned (I'd like to think that), I would be willing to put a paycheck on the fact that NONE of us can honestly admit they didn't say things or do things when they were 16 that they wouldn't take back in hindsight. Feel free to disagree with me, but I have never met a perfect man.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

LOL, ok he responded at the same time I did.

[ww2farmer]

Ok, I think he gets it.

 

He hasn't responded but hopefully he has been reading the responses and absorbing some of the very valid points that have been brought up. I just want to remind people, he is a kid.

 

Just pointing that out, especially to those throwing around the "elitist" comments. While they may be well intentioned (I'd like to think that), I would be willing to put a paycheck on the fact that NONE of us can honestly admit they didn't say things or do things when they were 16 that they wouldn't take back in hindsight. Feel free to disagree with me, but I have never met a perfect man.

This ..........................I only wish I could remember all the stupid things I said or did as a kid, but there were so many it's all one giant blur of stupid. At least the kid cares about the pond and is out fishing, he'll learn. It's probably a good thing he posted what he did here, and some of you guys gave him heck for it, now he'll think twice next time.

[senile1]

A lot of good stuff in here. I realize that what I did was immature and I hope nobody thinks the worse of me. Just let the thread die now.

 

I think you made a very good point about catch and release being useful in many lakes and fisheries.  And I don't think you meant to be disrespectful to other anglers.  Sometimes we make posts and we only enter a small piece of our thoughts and others get the wrong impresson.  I've done that many a time on these forums.  As Speedbead and ww2farmer stated, you're good here.  My remarks in my post above were addressed to everyone, and not specifically to your original post.

[slonezp]

Enforcement would seem racist? Just because they are immigrants? While a few narrow minded people may agree with that, i say "who cares?" GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS SHOULD NOT THINK THAT WAY. Why be affraid to tick some one off or make a narrow minded person think that...thats whats wrong with our society, people are too scared to hurt somones feelings when you know you are doing the right thing. right is right and wrong is wrong.

This is a fact in the America we live in. 

 

My next door neighbors are from Nigeria and they have a church friend who is from Jamaica. They cannot comprehend the fact that I throw back the fish. People from these countries fish for 2 reasons. To put food on the table and to sell fish to earn money. I'm not defending their actions but their culture(s) are different than ours. In many instances I'm sure they know the rules. If your options were to feed the family and take a chance at getting arrested, or not eat, you'd be fishing.

 

The issues in IL are all about money. Not enough CPO's to go around, although some jurisdictions allow the sheriff to make conservation arrests. That still does not give me or anyone else the right to go vigilante over a couple of fish. Keep the DNR phone # in your wallet and if possible, get the lic plate # off the vehicle they drove.

[slonezp]

This ..........................I only wish I could remember all the stupid things I said or did as a kid, but there were so many it's all one giant blur of stupid. At least the kid cares about the pond and is out fishing, he'll learn. It's probably a good thing he posted what he did here, and some of you guys gave him heck for it, now he'll think twice next time.

A blur of stupid? Mine was a cloud of smoke

[xbacksideslider]

Enforcement would seem racist? Just because they are immigrants? While a few narrow minded people may agree with that, i say "who cares?" GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS SHOULD NOT THINK THAT WAY. Why be affraid to tick some one off or make a narrow minded person think that...thats whats wrong with our society, people are too scared to hurt somones feelings when you know you are doing the right thing. right is right and wrong is wrong.

ICONOCLASTIC. WOW..you get bonus points for using that in a sentence. I am not being a smart tail... actually impressed.

Game wardens and incentives? Do you expect to get a crappy meal at resturant just because the people there dont get paid much, and probably have ZERO INCENTIVES? Cops, firemen, game wardens, EMS personell all know what they sign up for and what the money is. And yes there is are incentives, one and is called pride and the other is promotion. Not all entities are super political. I agree that the pay and benefits need to be better.

Bonuses and gratuities to wardens for more production..ILLEGAL and it can lead to corruption. Production based pay and quotas are illegal. Bonus for x number of tickets or arrests are illegal.

Reward the public for doing their civic duty to place that they fish...thats laughable. Why bribe people to do the right thing when you should demand it!

I repsect you opinions and a couple them were well thought, however, i do not agree.

Just two cents from a an ex cop, EMT, now working in Lake Management.

 

 

Except for you comment about "iconoclastic,"  I notice that you went to the trouble, for some reason, to cut this part out -

 

"Some lakes, loaded with stunted middling fish, ought to be fished commercially for fish of that size. But that proposal is iconoclastic. Same thing - commercial fishing - should happen with fisheries that are over loaded with Snakehead and Flying Carp - try telling that to a Fish & Game commissioner. Heresy.

 

Too often, the law enforcement/game warden model fails. If someone owned the fish and therefore had the right to inspect buckets/chests and charge a fee at the dock or point of egress, the enforcement would be better. High price for undersized and oversized, low price for midsized."

 

How would you improve conservation of the resource, given the current system's failings? 

 

On the ocean I see party boats get spot checked but the real enforcement is by the crew, who are told to see that the anglers obey the rules by their boss, the owner, who knows his boat could be properly targeted for enforcement by DFG.

 

As a taxpaying, small business, angler, looking with *** at those who chose careers in government, I'd like to know, why not privatization?  Why not commercial fishing for snakehead? or those silver asian flying carp?  

[0119]

There already is commercial fishing for the asian carp and a grass roots effort organized for its sale not only here but abroad.  Checkout NatGeo and watch Jeb Hogans show about it.

 

Privatization of law enforcement works very well. Check out the now popular private prison systems. They are racking up a hefty list of dead bodies and federal conspiracy and RICO indictments.

 

That you look with *** at my joke of a pension is amazing.  After 25 years of being spit on, run over, feces flung in my face, shot at and more things I remember every night of my life that you would never think of facing....... I see less than a grand a month, no health insurance, my house of 27 years going into foreclosure.    Enjoy your tax deductions and 401k's.  

[Teal]

I havent actually sat down and made an educated opinion about how to solve the problem. So, im going save my assinine ideas until i come up with a reasonable plan.

The two paragraphs you posted... i left them out because i agreed with that part. I focused my rant on things i didnt agree with.

[xbacksideslider]

Thanks Teal, for the clarification.

 

Charlie Brown,

What can I say? I have no 401K, I am self employed and my IRA is embarassing; it'll run out quick, and then there's SSI.  Inflation and the new "chain CPI" will devalue that.   

 

I live in CA where the public employee unions own the state, where the prison guards are at the top of the pile. Fortunately, we didn't borrow against our house when easy money from the Fed and Fannie/Ginnie ballooned its value to 5 times its debt. Sorry about your foreclosure.  No sarcasm, I really am.

 

Good to know that finally, after 20 years of resistance to the idea, the State reluctantly allowed some commerical fishing for asian silver carp; I see that they stalled because they were worried that allowing it will create an interest group in favor of the carp . . . . .http://www.xploreutah.net/story/brasher-commercial-fishermen-best-bet-reducing-asian-carp-numbers  Having botched it, and resisted for years, they are a little late for that concern.  But then . . . . what did they have to lose?  They didn't own the resources, they just were "responsible" for it.  But not really, what price have they, the game warden establishment, paid?

 

The government game warden model of resource conservation is a continuing failure. 

Tragedy of the commons - over grazed and underenforced.

The bounty of private waters shows how good it could be. 

[Brian Needham]

don't worry, when those carp hit the great lakes they will start to think about doing something. Nobody cares about the southern waters and rivers the carp have destroyed, but God forbid anything happens to the great lakes.

 

I got to leave now, if I say anymore, the thread will get shut down.....if its not already on its way there.

[Texas bassman]

I just hate when they keep bass. They're the fish we love. I got a per bass and I hate when one takes my bit too deep and ends up dying. They're beautiful fish and the reason we're all part of this website.