Buying A Kayak This Spring!

[JimSammons]

New here but a very long time in a kayak. This thread popped up in my news feed, so I thought I would check it out.

So many people answered this query without asking the most basic questions that would allow you to answer the question properly for the specific person.

How tall are you

How much do you weigh

What kind of distance do you plan on traveling in your kayak

Any Storage limitations

How will you transport the kayak

Do you have any weight lifting limitations.

Do you have easy access to the launch spot for your kayak or will you have to carry or wheel it over.

 

Not every kayak is good for every condtition or for every person.

Best advise given on here is to get in some demo kayaks and give them a try if you can.

I am always happy to answer questions and talk about kayak fishing so feel free to contact me if you wish.

I also have about 130 videos up on line on kayak fishing that may help you out. 

www.kayakfishingtales.com

 

Jim Sammons

Host of The Kayak Fishing Show

and The Extreme Kayak Fishing Challenge

[Darren.]

New here but a very long time in a kayak. This thread popped up in my news feed, so I thought I would check it out.

So many people answered this query without asking the most basic questions that would allow you to answer the question properly for the specific person.

How tall are you

How much do you weigh

What kind of distance do you plan on traveling in your kayak

Any Storage limitations

How will you transport the kayak

Do you have any weight lifting limitations.

Do you have easy access to the launch spot for your kayak or will you have to carry or wheel it over.

 

Not every kayak is good for every condtition or for every person.

Best advise given on here is to get in some demo kayaks and give them a try if you can.

I am always happy to answer questions and talk about kayak fishing so feel free to contact me if you wish.

I also have about 130 videos up on line on kayak fishing that may help you out.

 

www.kayakfishingtales.com

 

 

 

 

Jim Sammons

Host of The Kayak Fishing Show

and The Extreme Kayak Fishing Challenge

 

Hi Jim! Welcome to the forums! Enjoy your show on NBC Sports!

[jsc4324]

I have zero experience in fishing kayaks but am also purchasing one by spring in the same price range. I have decided on the nucanoe frontier. I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet. It allows you to stand comfortably ,take a friend/spouse etc and gives you plenty of storage and can easily go solo. There's some interesting videos online. And it can be fully rigged take a trolling motor has scupper holes to make fishfinder instal easy etc.

[JimSammons]

Thanks for watching DarrenM, we have a lot of fun making the shows. Good to know some one is watching.

[J.Bass]

New here but a very long time in a kayak. This thread popped up in my news feed, so I thought I would check it out.

So many people answered this query without asking the most basic questions that would allow you to answer the question properly for the specific person.

How tall are you

How much do you weigh

What kind of distance do you plan on traveling in your kayak

Any Storage limitations

How will you transport the kayak

Do you have any weight lifting limitations.

Do you have easy access to the launch spot for your kayak or will you have to carry or wheel it over.

 

Not every kayak is good for every condtition or for every person.

Best advise given on here is to get in some demo kayaks and give them a try if you can.

I am always happy to answer questions and talk about kayak fishing so feel free to contact me if you wish.

I also have about 130 videos up on line on kayak fishing that may help you out. 

www.kayakfishingtales.com

 

Jim Sammons

Host of The Kayak Fishing Show

and The Extreme Kayak Fishing Challenge

First off honor to meet u! Im glad I could get expert advise as well from people on bassresource. I love watching Fishing shows on Nbc.

 

I can answer all I will send u a message thanks for the help! Glad to meet you.

[J.Bass]

DarrenM, JFrancho, and Flyfisher. I like the sound of controlled pedals by battery. Don't have to do the Flintstones pedaling lol.

[Darren.]

DarrenM, JFrancho, and Flyfisher. I like the sound of controlled pedals by battery. Don't have to do the Flintstones pedaling lol.

 

On my Native Ultimate 12 I have a modified trolling setup, similar to how bassyaks.com does theirs.

 

I've rigged my footpedals to be my steering, raise/lower motor, and have made a modified switch that I've rigged up next to me to go forward 5, reverse 2. It is a great setup, but I often think I'd prefer the Hobie pedal method (over the bicycle style that Native uses on their pedal yaks). I need to take some new pix, but here's an old one with an old bass pro predator trolling motor mounted.

 

[J.Bass]

On my Native Ultimate 12 I have a modified trolling setup, similar to how bassyaks.com does theirs.

 

I've rigged my footpedals to be my steering, raise/lower motor, and have made a modified switch that I've rigged up next to me to go forward 5, reverse 2. It is a great setup, but I often think I'd prefer the Hobie pedal method (over the bicycle style that Native uses on their pedal yaks). I need to take some new pix, but here's an old one with an old bass pro predator trolling motor mounted.

cool thanks for the tip and thanks for your help it will be helpful in when I purchase one next month. Nothing like looking now though.

 

 

[Darren.]

cool thanks for the tip and thanks for your help it will be helpful in when I purchase one next month. Nothing like looking now though.

 

Great, look forward to what you get. Be sure to let us know, show it off, share pix, and be sure to slime it up and post pix!

 

I spent months looking before I got the Native Ultimate. Changed my mind a few times, but did spend time in it as well as a few others in my price range before making my final decision. I've been very happy with it.

[JimSammons]

Well if you want electric take a look at the OK Torque, gives you the best of both worlds, simple drop in motor when you want that and drop in skeg when you want a good paddler.

[Hanover_Yakker]

I think an important distinction needs to be addressed here: alternative methods of propulsion are not for everyone.  While the Native Mariner and Hobie Mirage Drive kayaks are not for everyone, they do offer unique and distinct advantages to the angler who prefers to move often, has long open water to cross or has a medical condition that precludes them from extended paddling sessions.  I fall into the last two categories with the last reason being most prominent.  I have tendonitis in one shoulder, and a damaged labrum in the other.  While I use to paddle for periods of 5-6 hours at a time over the course of a day on big reservoirs, it was murder on my shoulders the next day.  Often times I would even have trouble sleeping because of it.

 

As flyfisher pointed out earlier with the movement differences on the drive systems between the Native and the Hobie, there are also disadvantages to both drive systems.  While the Mirage Drive may create additional pressure on your lower back, that most often times is due to improper seat adjustment and Mirage Drive pedal distance adjustment.  Most people sit too upright and have the pedals adjusted too close believing they need a long reach of their leg to move the kayak.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  In fact, movement of the pedals on a Mirage Drive kayak a mere 2-3" will propel the kayak, the Native still requires a full revolution to move the kayak.  The movement required for the drive is on a lateral/horizontal plane and is less stressful/more natural movement on your knee and ankle joints over the course of the day on the water.

 

As far as the Native in concerned, the challenge with that drive system is that it is a recumbant drive meaning that your knees, hips, legs and ankles are all utilized which for some individuals can be difficult over the course of the day and can actually place more strain on your knees over the course of time if not executed efficiently and properly, just like riding your bike.  The are also three huge differences between the form and function of the drive systems when compared to one another.

 

First and foremost, the drive system on the Native is a fixed mast system and has no flex, meaning that in shallow water situations where the mast can bottom out, the drive is not as useful, because it protrudes from the bottom of the kayak over 6".  For the Mirage Drive, the fins can be opposed to one another and not require removal in water that is 12-16" deep, and the drivehousing only protrudes a little over 1" from the bottom of the hull.  Second, in shallow water, the Mirage Drive fins can still be utilized by performing a fluttering action of your feet on the pedals that will still propel the kayak.  The Native is not able to execute this maneuver due to the fixed mast.  Third and most significantly, pedaling efficiency is not equivalent between the two drive systems.  The Native has a fixed propeller size and does not increase your speed significantly with a fast pedaling action.  In fact, you will tire out and risk injury to yourself in trying to do so.  A rapid pedaling action in the Native also increases the noise resonance of the hull, because the drive system actually vibrates and creates a loud humming/grinding sound.  The drive was never designed nor intended for that type of usage.  The Mirage Drive system is easier on your lower body and more efficient as you increase the speed of your pedaling.  The fins of the Mirage Drive are based upon the physics of penguin flippers and will flex as you increase your speed.  I used my Elite 5 DSI this past summer and tracked my speed on my Revolution 13 and was able to maintain a speed of 5 mph for 35 minutes straight with a nice steady cadence in my pedaling action.  I left a fellow kayaker using a Mariner in the dust, because the drive system could not rotate fast enough to keep up with me.  Remember, the Native is a single gear, not like a 10 speed where you can change sprockets and gears to get more power.

 

However, it important to understand this overlying principle here regarding these kayaks and shallow water.  If you are in either of these types of kayaks, you can simple pull both drive systems and paddle the kayak just like a normal kayak.  It all boils down to the types of water you want to fish and whether these types of kayaks are ones to consider.  It should also be noted that while I am a member of the Hobie Fishing Team and support their brand, I am good friends with a couple Native reps in my area and have spent time in most of their models, including the Mariner.  I can tell you from personal experience, the Mirage Drive system is more efficient and less stressful on your joints.

 

In the end, seat time, physical limitations and your overall safety and comfort are the key factors in making the decision.  Listen to your "body" and then go ask your spouse for the funds !

[alexstep88]

Just a heads-up, in Illinois, you have to pay sales tax (6.25%) to the department of revenue if you buy from an out of state dealer. You also have to title and register through the DNR, then renew every 3 years like a normal boat. Kind of a headache to figure it out, but ask me if you have questions. You'd be surprised the number of canoe/ kayaks I've seen on state lakes that are not registered.

[J.Bass]

I think an important distinction needs to be addressed here: alternative methods of propulsion are not for everyone.  While the Native Mariner and Hobie Mirage Drive kayaks are not for everyone, they do offer unique and distinct advantages to the angler who prefers to move often, has long open water to cross or has a medical condition that precludes them from extended paddling sessions.  I fall into the last two categories with the last reason being most prominent.  I have tendonitis in one shoulder, and a damaged labrum in the other.  While I use to paddle for periods of 5-6 hours at a time over the course of a day on big reservoirs, it was murder on my shoulders the next day.  Often times I would even have trouble sleeping because of it.

 

As flyfisher pointed out earlier with the movement differences on the drive systems between the Native and the Hobie, there are also disadvantages to both drive systems.  While the Mirage Drive may create additional pressure on your lower back, that most often times is due to improper seat adjustment and Mirage Drive pedal distance adjustment.  Most people sit too upright and have the pedals adjusted too close believing they need a long reach of their leg to move the kayak.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  In fact, movement of the pedals on a Mirage Drive kayak a mere 2-3" will propel the kayak, the Native still requires a full revolution to move the kayak.  The movement required for the drive is on a lateral/horizontal plane and is less stressful/more natural movement on your knee and ankle joints over the course of the day on the water.

 

As far as the Native in concerned, the challenge with that drive system is that it is a recumbant drive meaning that your knees, hips, legs and ankles are all utilized which for some individuals can be difficult over the course of the day and can actually place more strain on your knees over the course of time if not executed efficiently and properly, just like riding your bike.  The are also three huge differences between the form and function of the drive systems when compared to one another.

 

First and foremost, the drive system on the Native is a fixed mast system and has no flex, meaning that in shallow water situations where the mast can bottom out, the drive is not as useful, because it protrudes from the bottom of the kayak over 6".  For the Mirage Drive, the fins can be opposed to one another and not require removal in water that is 12-16" deep, and the drivehousing only protrudes a little over 1" from the bottom of the hull.  Second, in shallow water, the Mirage Drive fins can still be utilized by performing a fluttering action of your feet on the pedals that will still propel the kayak.  The Native is not able to execute this maneuver due to the fixed mast.  Third and most significantly, pedaling efficiency is not equivalent between the two drive systems.  The Native has a fixed propeller size and does not increase your speed significantly with a fast pedaling action.  In fact, you will tire out and risk injury to yourself in trying to do so.  A rapid pedaling action in the Native also increases the noise resonance of the hull, because the drive system actually vibrates and creates a loud humming/grinding sound.  The drive was never designed nor intended for that type of usage.  The Mirage Drive system is easier on your lower body and more efficient as you increase the speed of your pedaling.  The fins of the Mirage Drive are based upon the physics of penguin flippers and will flex as you increase your speed.  I used my Elite 5 DSI this past summer and tracked my speed on my Revolution 13 and was able to maintain a speed of 5 mph for 35 minutes straight with a nice steady cadence in my pedaling action.  I left a fellow kayaker using a Mariner in the dust, because the drive system could not rotate fast enough to keep up with me.  Remember, the Native is a single gear, not like a 10 speed where you can change sprockets and gears to get more power.

 

However, it important to understand this overlying principle here regarding these kayaks and shallow water.  If you are in either of these types of kayaks, you can simple pull both drive systems and paddle the kayak just like a normal kayak.  It all boils down to the types of water you want to fish and whether these types of kayaks are ones to consider.  It should also be noted that while I am a member of the Hobie Fishing Team and support their brand, I am good friends with a couple Native reps in my area and have spent time in most of their models, including the Mariner.  I can tell you from personal experience, the Mirage Drive system is more efficient and less stressful on your joints.

 

In the end, seat time, physical limitations and your overall safety and comfort are the key factors in making the decision.  Listen to your "body" and then go ask your spouse for the funds !

Cool thanks for the tips on pedaling. These will be very useful

 

Just a heads-up, in Illinois, you have to pay sales tax (6.25%) to the department of revenue if you buy from an out of state dealer. You also have to title and register through the DNR, then renew every 3 years like a normal boat. Kind of a headache to figure it out, but ask me if you have questions. You'd be surprised the number of canoe/ kayaks I've seen on state lakes that are not registered.

Yeah the 6.25 is a bummer. Next weekend in Madison, WI is the Canoecopia Outdoor Expo show. Says its biggest in world and its like black friday for Kayaks and Canoes! Ill be going to see all of them LOL.

[alexstep88]

That sounds awesome. Have fun! They may be able to take off WI tax at the expo, so you won't have to pay double tax.

I just remembered, Quest watersports was at the Bloomington fish and feather expo, and said they do hobie demos. They are in Ottawa.

[J.Bass]

That sounds awesome. Have fun! They may be able to take off WI tax at the expo, so you won't have to pay double tax. I just remembered, Quest watersports was at the Bloomington fish and feather expo, and said they do hobie demos. They are in Ottawa.

Quest Watersport is near me. Like 15 minutes is Ottawa from me. Im north of Peoria.