Pro Credibility

[SirSnookalot]

I don't fish the same places that pros do and they don't fish where I do, how to fish IMO is more important than what's in your hands.  I don't give recommendations nor do I pay much attention to other's, professional or amateur.

[*Hootie]

Mattlures made a good point. I've often wondered if Pro X is really, in his private fishing, using an Okuma reel, or his he secretly borrowing Shimanos off of LMG.......lol

Hootie

[Bankbeater]

I go by word of mouth, and customer reviews.  The biggest turn off for me is when you hear a pro start talking about how to scope out and fish an area, and then they start dropping brand names about what tackle to purchase.

[PABASS]

OK, but to be fair had you fished a square billed crank much prior to KVD's recommendation to buy his? And if so, have you fished any other brands of square billed cranks? I'm being serious (btw, I've never fished KVD's square billed crankbaits.) I know that not all square billed crankbaits are created equally, but I also know that there are plenty besides KVD's on the market that are proven fish catchers.

 

Yes I had a few older square bills made by Rapala.  Yes it caught fish but not like the 1.5 and I agree there are tons on the market but the price point on the KVDs is good and the action out of the package to

coin a phrase is erratic and fish love it. I am by no means making a scientific statement just simply what works for me as it could be simple confidence that I now have with this bait I didn’t have in the past I am not sure but I do know it works for me on every body of water I have used it in.  Lures that KvD recommended not necessarily his brand which I think this square bill and a few spinner baits are KvD stamped and all I own.  I

just don’t look at pros, I use all my tools available and that includes walking up to a person and asking what they are catching them on.  Right now I have my eye on a few lures from a small tackle maker and megastrike, I will see for myself as they are not being used around and will have to experiment with them.

 

I want to add this is how I work around a problem in the market which is a flooding of product, it’s just too time consuming and expensive to try all brands and types of lures so yes I do really on Pros, internet, local tackle shops and my fellow fisherpeople..

[jhoffman]

I buy what I want based on how it feels to me and stands up to what I put it through. If a $50 rod works and works well, it doesnt hurt my feelings that it only cost $50.

 

I also want to have baits that effectively cover the situations that I want to fish. One brand certainly isnt going to cover it all nor is one style. I want a crank with a tight wobble, one with a wide searching wobble, one that sinks, one that suspends, one that floats. I want a spinnerbait that looks like an arig coming through the water, I want another that mimics one single fish. I want a topwater that walks the dog, one that pops, one that gurgles, one that buzzes...

 

My point is, I know what I want to do and for me I can take a recommendation about what might do it however that doesnt mean I run out and buy that exact item.

[Nitrofreak]

I think after reading all these posts that if they were to suggest a bait or present a bait for us then they should also tell us the best situations to use such baits and under what conditions they perform their best, as the credibility of any pro I have no doubt in their ability to make any of the baits work for them under the right conditions.

 

They tend to target the younger, less experienced angler to go out and just purchace the product cause their favorite pro angler said so.

 

I think these companies would be more successful if they were to help the younger angler with color choice info on the packet as well.

 

Big-O puts in some great info on how to rig his product for a bigger chance of success and it helps a lot of our younger anglers, but if a bait is going to be successful then the colors the inexperienced angler chooses may fall short and the success rate falls short as well.

 

So a little better description of color choice and when and where you will have the most success may be of some help here when suggesting we should buy their product.

[Snakehead Whisperer]

Yes I had a few older square bills made by Rapala.  Yes it caught fish but not like the 1.5 and I agree there are tons on the market but the price point on the KVDs is good and the action out of the package to

coin a phrase is erratic and fish love it. I am by no means making a scientific statement just simply what works for me as it could be simple confidence that I now have with this bait I didn’t have in the past I am not sure but I do know it works for me on every body of water I have used it in.  Lures that KvD recommended not necessarily his brand which I think this square bill and a few spinner baits are KvD stamped and all I own.  I

just don’t look at pros, I use all my tools available and that includes walking up to a person and asking what they are catching them on.  Right now I have my eye on a few lures from a small tackle maker and megastrike, I will see for myself as they are not being used around and will have to experiment with them.

 

I want to add this is how I work around a problem in the market which is a flooding of product, it’s just too time consuming and expensive to try all brands and types of lures so yes I do really on Pros, internet, local tackle shops and my fellow fisherpeople..

This makes complete sense. If it aint broke then don't fix it. I have fished some of the deep diving KVD lures, and they work well. I especially like the silent deep divers. There are many different square bill designs that I like though.

I view it in the same way. I'm not ashamed to ask other anglers to put me on to baits and techniques that are working for them regardless of their skill level (if they're catching fish, then that speaks for itself.) And I'd definitely endorse supporting the small tackle maker any day. I just take most tackle recommendations with a grain of salt.

[Jig Meister]

I equate the fishing industry with the fitness industry, you will hear so much to get your money, but it is up to you to find what works regardless of the hype. It is no secrete they are trying to sell us, but the actual fishing tips and such I do listen because they have 20+ year of experience on me!

[J Francho]

If you ever get to see a pro do a seminar, it's quite a bit different than the usual "commercial" spots you see on TV.  They're regular guys like you and me.

[Nitrofreak]

If you ever get to see a pro do a seminar, it's quite a bit different than the usual "commercial" spots you see on TV.  They're regular guys like you and me.

 

I think if the sposors were to put a little more emphisis on this they would fair much better, that is a great way to put it J.

[J Francho]

Many of the up and coming guys have a different style.  One pro I saw recently (actually had to follow him at a seminar - tough act to follow, lol) and he was more about use what you know and like.  He was specifically asked why he used fluoro for this, and braid for that, and he simply said he liked one or the other better with that particular rod.  He stressed it had more to do with his comfort and habits than an actual preference based on science or even common sense.

 

Even Boyd Duckett was nothing like the guy in the rod commercials.  He was very thoughtful and explained why and what they did with their rods that makes them different.

[Nitrofreak]

Thats one reason why I love Fluke's videos so much, he has some great input on baits and and the in's and out's to go along with an open minded approach,  I have used a couple of his suggestions and some work and some don't but all in all he leaves nothing on the table and helps us figure out what is best for our conditions and situations.

[Gangley]

If I see a pro using a product he doesnt endorse of have on his boat/shirt/truck/etc. then I will pay great attention to what he has to say about it.  If it's KVD telling me about KVD cranks then I might as well be deaf/mute.  I could care less to hear somebody endorse something they are being paid to endorse because I cant establish credibility with that pro.  When I watch my fishing shows, specifically the bass tournaments, I'm not watching the pro or listening to the announcer, im trying to catch a glimpse of what lure the pros are using and how they are working it.

[mnbassman23]

Just wondering how many of you guys listen to the pros recommendations for purchasing any kind of tackle.

In my own personal opinion, for myself, the pros have absolutely NO credibility when it comes to my choices.

One reason, and one reason only. They CANNOT be objective when making tackle  suggestions. They have to

promote the guy who's writing the check. ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that, I would do EXACTLY  the same thing.

A paycheck is a paycheck, and a job is a job. Example, one pro last year. was pushing Kistler rods, this year it's Okuma.

     When I am looking to by a new reel, rod, etc., I come here for honest user opinions, or Google user reviews for whatever

 I am thinking about buying. Actually, I'll do the same thing for just about any major purchase. Google user reviews.

 just wondering if any of you guys feel the same way. Not criticizing any pro for anything. I watch them all and enjoy all the shows.

 

Hootie

 I do the same, I read tons of reviews on whatever I am buying. Post questions in forums and see what people say. There are a lot of resources out there that will help you out much more than a pro's opinion. 

 

With that said I still like to see what pro's are using, how they present the lure, and what conditions they are using the lure in. If it catches my interest I begin to research more on the lure and from there decide if I want it or if I want something else similar to it. 

[basscatcher8]

My favorite question i get asked by some folks when walking down a tackle isle is........can i catch a bass on this? It makes my skin crawl to hear that question. I just start saying yes to everything and they eventually get ticked at me and quit asking lol. They all catch bass but if you cant find em you cant catch em but TV pushes baits so much that everybody forgets the other pieces to the puzzle.

[Mattlures]

Don't just take any review as truthful either. ALOT of pro staff or people affiliated write those reviews both positive and negative against competing brands. Unless I knew the guy writing the review I wouldn't be convinced either way. There is a lot of money and ego in our sport.

[J Francho]

Watched MLF on the DVR tonight, and there were three or four segments where the pros got to tell how they caught their fish.  They all basically promoted the gear they used, but to a man, they went deeper, and clearly used that time to teach how to use that gear.  None of what they said was brand dependent.  I think given the opportunity, most truly want to help others gain success.  After all, that's what keeps the industry afloat.

[Bigbarge50]

This is an interesting discussion seeing we have some very strong opinions on certain brands on here..... 

 

I think it is easy to knock KVD yet seems guys all love the square bill and red eye shad..... so if you want to ignore a lure because KVD says he likes it and it has his name on it.... well might be missing out.  

 

I am not afraid to say I saw Tim Horton speak and he talked about the switchback shad and how he had designed the narrower bill and how he did not want it to be a BPS exclusive and such..... I bought three that day, mainly based on what he said.  

 

I also am getting megabass jerkbaits because everyone on here loves em.... nothing wrong with trying something if it interests you..... figure that is a huge part of the fun of fishing.  

[Gangley]

I dont exclude a lure simply because its being promoted by a professional and just happens to have that professionals name on it.  I simply discard all comments or reviews that the specific pro has on the said lure, period.  I have a few KVD 1.5 and 2.5's, but I darn sure didnt purchase them based on anything he had to say.  It was based on reviews, comments, and results by individuals who fished them and had no affiliation with him or Strike King.

[Hooligan]

There is a lot of money and ego in our sport.

 

There's more truth in that statement, alone, than most would even think to realize.  I'm going to use myself as an example here.  I have zero ego about my tenure in the fishing industry, no reason to.  Yet, because I'm extremely fortunate to have access to gear on several different levels of the game, I have the opportunity, sometimes, to see things that other guys won't see for a year or two down the road.  I have the opportunity to get my hands on a lot of gear that I wouldn't otherwise purchase, as well, I have no sponsors to answer to other than a couple.  I use Northstar and Seaguar, amongst others, because I genuinely believe them to be the best I've used for what I do and how I do it.  I've tried all other major fluorocarbon lines out there, and I've not found one that gives me the benefits of Tatsu.  I don't represent those products or companies for free gear, or to get something out of the deal, it's because they've got a great product and it's one that I use.  I can honestly say that for over two years, Northstar is the sole jig/spinnerbait I've thrown.  Seaguar is not the only line I've fished, but I always go back to it.

In the case of a lot of pros, they're using a product or pushing a product for the fact that it works.  They're with that company and using that product because they believe in it.  Edwin Evers is a great example of this- as is Tim Horton, and Kevin with his Nitro.  There are those guys, i know, that are pimping something only to be throwing another on the backside.  But there are those guys that are legit, and they're doing just what they say.

I agree heartily that I listen to what occurs in a seminar a lot more than a TV show.  I really enjoy the opportunity for learning most of these guys throw out there.  Guys like Jami Fralick are superb teachers that can illustrate every portion of what and why.  Most of them are good about that.  Most, if you listen well, will give you everything they do- they do tend to break it up and compartmentalize it, but it's all there if you can put it together.

[Sam]

Hootie, excellent post and thread.

 

I agree with everyone about not listening to the brand names that the pros support.

 

I do listen or read the tackle's details (6:1 or 6'8" MH, etc.) and also pay close attention to the pros' techniques and the types of baits they throw.

 

I was told by an Elite Series guy that the pros modifiy their baits and keep that data secret. I was told some of VanDam's tricks of which he has never mentioned in his DVDs, seminars, magazines, books or on TV.

 

Ike will tell you what he does with his baits, however Ike will also hawk his newest and greatest product at a weigh-in even if he does not catch any fish on it.

 

And I was told that if you listen to the pros fishing the BASS or FLW Classics the pros will say they "threw" such and such a bait. That is true. They are not saying they caught their fish on that bait. Only that they threw it.

 

Lastly, the pros will use prototypes of various baits and let us know they used them but we do not know how they adapted the bait to their fishing conditions during that specific tournament.

 

And then there was my old friend, Jim Kerr. Jim was a guide no the Chickahominy River and he told me he received good discounts from Abu on is tackle.

 

When we would go fishing, at the end of the day Jim would change his shirt to his Abu tournament shirt and hold up the best bass we caught that day so I could take a photo. He would send the photo to Abu so he could say he fished in that shirt all day and what he caught using Abu products, even though many of the bass pictured were caught by me using Shimano gear.

 

It's all about marketing. If you are a pro and represent a manufacturer you would do the same thing the current pros do regarding their sponsors' products.

 

P.S. It is interesting to watch old videos and DVDs of the pros when they were representing previous manufacturers, especially Ike in Ranger boats!!!

 

 

[Ryan941]

You have to think though. They can’t tell you everything they do because they don’t want there competitors knowing every in and out on how to fish a certain bait in the condition. Another thing you have to think of is they change the baits and how they use them for the conditions they are fishing. A lot of guys change the line they use or hooks to get the bait to go deeper or shallower ect. A lot of them also have multiple colors of sharpies or something to mark the bait with to change the color. Its all about the conditions and what time of year and what they need the lure to do in that certain tournament they are fishing. If you watch kvd’s bass pro shops shows he tells you when were how to fish the certain lure and he also tells you a lot of it is experimenting. Every time you go out on the water it is different. Its our job as fishermen to figure it out. I remember watching one of his episodes he couldn’t get the fish to bite on his spinner bait and he just knew that it was the right conditions to fish it. He added a red trailer hook to it and it was lights out. They all modify there baits. If you watch the tournaments after there done they also interview the pro on line and they almost always do something to slightly change the way the lure looks or performs.

[basscatcher8]

I remember in the classic last year I think it was Poche was using that senko with the spinner blade hanging out the back of it and he told the tv guys they couldnt show the folks anything about it until mid day sunday when they were all out on the final day.

[JayKumar]

I can see how folks could get cynical, but us fishermen are skeptics anyway.  Try what you want, see if it works for you.  We might forget that there are more great baits now than ever in bass fishing, so when a pro says he uses X, Y or Z bait he actually does and it does work for him.  Do they use other baits too?  Sure, if they need to.  Bet you would too in their position.  Not defending anything or anyone, just calling it like I've seen it.

[SudburyBasser]

I can see how folks could get cynical, but us fishermen are skeptics anyway. 

 

They're still selling a lot of lipless cranks thanks to KvD