Electricians Help

[dave]

One morning,  my coffee pot wouldn't turn on,  neither would the toaster next to it. It is plugged into a different outlet.  My first thought was "how could two appliances die at the same time?"

 

I put my chirp tester in the socket.  Power on the right (hot) plug,  nothing on the white.  I  tested other outlets that were fine and got the same result.

 

Now,  the garbage disposal won't turn on.  It is at the end of the series I guess,  where these two outlets around my kitchen counter are located.

 

Outlet,  outlet,  switch.  The two outllets went out a week ago,  the switch for the disposal,  just yesterday.

 

There is enough electricity to make my tester chirp but,  the appliances aren't coming on.

 

Any thoughts?

[deaknh03]

Is it a gfi? reset it if it is.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Check your GFCI first. Test and then reset. If the reset is not holding then you dont have power. Go make sure the breaker is on. Chirp testers lie. They pick up on static as well as ghost voltage and dont always work. How many volts are going to the receptacle? It should be between 110 and 120 depending on what size service you have. If the breaker is on and the GFCI is holding I need to know the voltage. If you dont have voltage with the breaker on. Then you either have a bad GFCI or have lost a neutral. If you can give me more info I can help you troubleshoot it better. How old is the GFCI? (Rough estimate) Is your wiring copper or Aluminum? What else is on the circuit?

[wnybassman]

My first thought was a GFI also.   If you can't find one to reset inside, be sure to check any possible outside outlets.  Wouldn't be the first one I've seen wired that way.

[Bankbeater]

Were you hit with a power surge?  Your appliances might have gotten fried.

[flyfisher]

Sounds like a GFCI to me and maybe this is a stupid question but did you try said appliances in a different known to be working outlet? There may also be a GFCI on the breaker itself that is worth looking at.

[retiredbosn]

On your outlets it could be your GFI, the garbage disposal typically isn't on that circuit however. Depending on how old your house is, dictates how many gfi protected outlets you have, and where the actual gfi is located. Sometimes it is in the "breaker box" other times its on an outlet, again depending on how your house was wired the gfi outlet protecting your kitchen may or may not actually be in the kitchen, I've seen them in a half bath near the kitchen. Also gfi outlets do go bad, the outlet reset and test button may still appear to function but not actually be working. The gfi when it goes bad does allow low voltage thru the circuit, I mean low like 2 to 10 volts. So for your outlets that aren't working I would suspect either a tripped or bad gfi outlet, they are not difficult to replace, but if you are uncomfortable with doing electrical work get someone to do if for you. Just a heads up, if it is a breaker with a GFI on it, replace the breaker with a normal breaker and get a GFI outlet to put on the that series. A GFI breaker is pricey compared to an outlet, the gfi outlet will cost less than 20 bucks, the breaker can easily be three times that much.

Onto the garbage disposal. there is a reset button on the motor to the disposal typically red on the side of the motor under the sink. Attempting to grind up heavy items or too much will cause the overload switch to trip. On the bottom of the disposal is a manual hex key that will allow you to turn the motor/blades by hand. Check to see if the drain is blocked, if not check to see if the blades will turn manually, if so make sure the motor hasn't tripped the safety switch. That's most likey the scenario on the disposal. Good luck to you.

[shootermcbob]

This is what I love about this site....folks are always willing to help another in need. Way to go guys!.

 

I have no idea about electricity, but I do hope you are able to get it figured out with the members help. Good luck.

[slonezp]

In adddition to what was said. Garbage disposal has a reset button it for motor protection. It's possible the motor seized or shorted and tripped the circuit breaker. Everything could be on the same circuit

[dave]

Not a GFI.  Socket from 1972.  Two sockets went out at once.  

 

Twice this week,  the lights on the coffee pot came back on and then off again.

 

Now the switch that operates the disposal doesn't work.

 

I am going to hunt down my (or someone's) voltage tester and get some real readings.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Back with more info soon (I hope)

[flyfisher]

I would also check the outlets themselves.  Turn off the power, take out the old outlet and wire up a new one and see if that helps your problem out.

[retiredbosn]

The entire kitchen except stove is probably on one circuit. The disposal is probably an add on and anybody's guess on wiring. From description I'm leaning towards a short. I would recommend getting a professional in there, shorts can cause fires.

Do u have a modern circuit breaker box? 200 amp service, fuses or other? That will help in determining fire risks.

[roadwarrior]

If you decide to go with a professional, ask friends and neighbors for a recommendation

rather than a company randomly found in the Yellow Pages. We have a retired gentleman

that is a great "handyman". Last Saturday I had all of my outlets checked and several replaced;

guts to two toilets; refinished door and installed kickplate plus a small panel replaced. Three

hours of work plus commute and all the parts for $125.  

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Not a GFI. Socket from 1972. Two sockets went out at once.

Twice this week, the lights on the coffee pot came back on and then off again.

Now the switch that operates the disposal doesn't work.

I am going to hunt down my (or someone's) voltage tester and get some real readings.

Thanks for the replies.

Back with more info soon (I hope)

Im almost willing to bet is aluminum wiring. The way you described the receptacle coming back on makes me think that. Pull the receptacles out and check that the wires are on the terminals tightly. Aluminum will contract and expand when it gets hot or cold. Thusly working its way loose. If that is the case then replace the receptacles with aluminum rated ones. If not aluminum its likely the receptacles have gone bad or there is a short. I will pm you a very easy way to determine if the receptacles work. I am 85 percent certain its either a bad receptacle or its a bad connection due to Aluminum wire.

As for the disposal. If it is not getting any power to it. It is either jumped from the receptacles. Or it is tapped in a box below the floor, and something has either shorted or come loose. If it is in between the same studs as one of the recptacles then it is most likely jumped from the nearest one.

Is the breaker(s) controlling the disposal and receptacles tripped?

[slonezp]

Im almost willing to bet is aluminum wiring. The way you described the receptacle coming back on makes me think that. Pull the receptacles out and check that the wires are on the terminals tightly. Aluminum will contract and expand when it gets hot or cold. Thusly working its way loose. If that is the case then replace the receptacles with aluminum rated ones. If not aluminum its likely the receptacles have gone bad or there is a short. I will pm you a very easy way to determine if the receptacles work. I am 85 percent certain its either a bad receptacle or its a bad connection due to Aluminum wire.

As for the disposal. If it is not getting any power to it. It is either jumped from the receptacles. Or it is tapped in a box below the floor, and something has either shorted or come loose. If it is in between the same studs as one of the recptacles then it is most likely jumped from the nearest one.

Is the breaker(s) controlling the disposal and receptacles tripped?

He could also have a loose neutral in a common 1900 or handybox causing the issues

[Raider Nation Fisher]

He could also have a loose neutral in a common 1900 or handybox causing the issues

Very very true.

[dave]

Well,  I got home from work and stretched the sockets out.  I tightened up all four neutrals and there was some screwing to be done on all four.

 

 I plugged the coffee maker in a VIOLA!  On she went,  toaster too.

 

My wife neglected to tell me that when the garbage disposal switch stopped working,  it made a sound and then stopped.

 

 I hit the reset and the switched worked.  Then,  it tripped the disposal breaker.  I turned the mechanism with a rod and it is quite tough and grinding a bit.  

 

Time for a new disposal.  

 

Much thanks to the bassresource community.

[fish-fighting-illini]

This could be a lot of things. One good suggestion was to plug one of the affected appliances into an outlet in another room. b

This doesn't sound like a short to me as more than likely a short trips a breaker or blows a fuse.

To me this sounds more like a loose or open power connection.

My only experience with a loose neutral resulted in too high of a voltage rather than too low.

The open neutral in my case caused the 110vac circuit to not have a 0v neutral reference. This caused that circuit's voltage to rise to 220v. That intern blew a surge outlet strip. I think that it took out the power supply for a WII system. The neutral bus bar in the main breaker cabinet had some rust / corrosion. We ran a wire from the neutral to the ground bus bar and it took care of the problem.

I have had a situation with a car system once that read 12vdc unconnected at a fan circuit ( with a top line Fluke meter). If i connected the fan it wouldn't run. Connected the fan directly to the car battery & it ran fine. There turned out to be a very bad connection down stream that when under load would't carry the fan's current.

Important! If you don't find something 100% concrete wrong then it is time to call in a professional as intermittents & loose wires can be serious fire hazards.

Just my .02 FFI

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Well,  I got home from work and stretched the sockets out.  I tightened up all four neutrals and there was some screwing to be done on all four.

 

 I plugged the coffee maker in a VIOLA!  On she went,  toaster too.

 

My wife neglected to tell me that when the garbage disposal switch stopped working,  it made a sound and then stopped.

 

 I hit the reset and the switched worked.  Then,  it tripped the disposal breaker.  I turned the mechanism with a rod and it is quite tough and grinding a bit.  

 

Time for a new disposal.  

 

Much thanks to the bassresource community.

Glad it all works now. Out of curiosity is it aluminum wire on the receptacles?

[retiredbosn]

Glad it worked out, just because the disposal is grinding doesn't mean it is broke. May have a small piece of metal, glass, I found gravel in one once, the person cleaned a fish tank and the gravel went into the disposal. Anyway see if you can work that out before buying another.

[dave]

Hard to tell regarding the disposal.  All that I've read mention bearings wearing out.  It is easily over ten years old and was making noises prior to seizing.

 

Copper wires.

[nick76]

Back when I lived in an apartment for college I mentioned to the maintenance man that I never used my disposal. He said if you are not going to use it, then run some ice cubes through it once a month to keep it moving and keep it from seizing up. Might be worth a try. He mentioned someone cleaning a fish tank out in one too. Said it doesn't take much to get them grinding. He said he just broke it loose, ran some ice through it. Might be worth a try.