Need Help Deciding On Canoe Or Kayak.

[BassAssassin726]

Good day and Merry Christmas to everyone. I'm looking to get a canoe or kayak next season to fish out of. I don't know which I should go with. I'm not trying to spend a grand. Looking to spend around 500-600 bucks. I fish mostly small, deep, clear quarry lakes around me. I also fish the Delaware River and Neshaminy Creek. Looking for something stable, I don't have to stand up but it would be nice since I'm 6 foot 6. Looking for something with storage and a couple rod holders. Although I could add them later. I plan on hooking up a fish finder and small trolling motor eventually. I drive a Mazda 3 so transportation has to be taken into account. Need something I can strap to me roof. Any help, suggestions or idea would be appreciated. Or just show off your own Yaks and Canoes for me to check out. Thanks guys and have a great holiday.

[Darren.]

Well... You have choices.

I'm a hybrid kayak owner, it's a Native Ultimate 12 (length), loaded with storage, I've even hooked up a trolling motor setup, a fish finder, as well. Now the pic below is an older one, have a new trolling motor, and I didn't have my crate on this trip...

My yak can be had for in the $800 range.

For me it was the best of both worlds. I started with a canoe, migrated to a kayak, missed certain parts of canoe fishing and went with the hybrid model.

Stability is incredible, secondary stability is amazing.

For gear storage I simply use a milk crate and cut PVC for rod holders. Customized MY way. No extra $$ spent for a fishing kayak that may or may not be laid out well.

But I'm also opposite of you, You've got me by nearly a foot in height :-)

So while I think you could do a 12' boat just fine, a 14 or 16 footer would likely be more comfortable.

I'm sure other yakkers and canoeists will chime in with their thoughts and other brand suggestions. I don't think you can go wrong with either, both have benefits and detractions (which is one reason I chose to go hybrid).

Edited December 22, 2012 by DarrenM

[Goose52]

If you haven't found it yet, here's a thread from back in August with the same question - 48 replies and some good info there: Kayak or Canoe?

Here's what I posted on that earlier thread:

Really, only you can answer that question. Some types of small watercraft (canoes, kayaks, bass raiders, float tubes, pontoons, inflatables, etc.) are perfect for some people. No one type of small watercraft is perfect for all people. In selecting whether you want to get a canoe or a kayak, you need to make a list of your needs, and then determine which craft is the better fit for you. Some of the factors to consider:

• Stabililty and standing capability (moving around, landing fish, another person or kids or dogs in the boat, standing to fish, etc.)
  
• Cargo/gear storage (how much stuff do you want to take)
  
• Inboard storage & handling (canoe) versus handling things in your lap or over the water (yak)
  
• Seating position (usually, but not always more upright seating in a canoe vs. legs-out in yak - have back problems?)
  
• Vessel weight (how much can you lift/transport)
  
• Transportability - to the water and possible portaging (do you have a truck, trailer, going to car-top, need to portage, etc.)
  
• Storage at home - how much room do you have to store how much boat? Inside garage, on driveway, storage shed, outside on the lawn, etc.
  
• Ease of paddling
  
• Will you want the capability to motor it?
  
• Manueverability
  
• Type of water (lakes, streams, white water, etc.)
  
• Number of people in the craft
  
• Stay mostly dry or don't mind getting a bit wet
  
• Length of voyage (couple hours or a couple days)
  
• Etc.
  

Once you answer those questions based on your own capabilities and needs, you'll come closer to chosing either a canoe, a yak, or a hybrid. All are great watercraft in their own ways, you just have to find the best fit for YOU.

I faced the same decision as you are tying to make now but I was open to all types of small watercraft from float tubes up to bass boats. The best solution for ME, was a heavily accessorized canoe. I only fish my local, small (1.5 to 201 acres), no-wake lakes. Some of these lakes don't have boat ramps. I needed something car-topable without a special rack, modular, very light weight, with as much capability as possible. I wanted stability so I could stand and fish all day, lots of inboard storage, motorized, and little to no maintenance. I didn't want to have to buy a truck or other tow vehicle, I didn't want to consume a garage bay or driveway space with a boat and trailer, didn't want high expense and high maintenance, and didn't want to use gasoline power. Taking everything into account, I ended up with a canoe, trolling motor, and outriggers for stability.

From what you have said in your initial post, espescially about car-topping, a couple things to keep in mind: consider the weight of the boat that you select - you are going to have to lift it up on your roof; and how are you going to secure the boat to the roof. If you get a kayak, you will mostly likely need to get a special roof rack at added cost. With a canoe, you might be able to get away with just using the foam blocks like I use.

In my case, all of this:

...fits into and on top of this:

and stores like this...

[A-Jay]

I've been fishing from the Old Town Predator square back for 5 seasons now - love it.

Suits my needs well.

Very Stable and holds a lot gear, more with some modifications.

A-Jay

http://www.bassresou...attach_id=21513

[Hanover_Yakker]

Here's a note I sent to a fellow BR member who had a similar question..........

The important thing to understand with kayaks in general is that not all of the hulls have the same functionality or purpose. Some hulls are wide for stability but can be a bear to paddle. Some hulls are very narrow and fast but are a little less stable and not always easy to stand in. The key is to find a balance of both attributes while still being able to enjoy your time on the water. Your question about seats is kind of a loaded question, because up until the last year, most factory kayak seats left a lot to be desired. The only line of kayaks under the $1000 price point with a comfortable seat was the Native Ultimate and Manta Rays. While most kayak seats are fine for a 2 hour outing, anything longer than that would require frequent stops to stretch your legs and your back. Some factory seat positions and footwell layouts are so difficult to get comfortable in that your legs or feet fall asleep. A perfect example of that would be the Perception Pescador or Native Redfish where your legs and seat are basically flat. You can always spend the extra cash and upgrade your seating to an upscale model like the Surf To Summit GTS Expedition, etc. but that involves and additional $125-200 outlay depending upon whay you opt for.

With that said, the last year has seen a significant focus by the industry as a whole on improving the kayak seating features on the various brands of kayaks out there. The models that come to mind are: Jackson (Coosa & Cuda), Wilderness Systems (Commander series, plus the new Air Ride seat they offer for their Ride line), Native Watercraft (Ultimate, Slayer and Manta Ray) and the high end Hobie Pro Angler series with the new Vantage seating. All of these are good choices from a seating perspective, but they each differ in their overall stability, handling and tracking characteristics.

As far as the hull designs, the hulls with pontoon style hulls tend to be more stable than others, but new models like the Ride series have design characteristics like deeper chines that provide a good level of stability. Now, as far as kayak types - SOT, SINK and the other types you may not be aware of are the hybrid and alternative propulsion models. SOTs or Sit On Tops provide a great level of safety, because they are designed to drain any water that enters the kayak via the integrated scupper holes. SINKs or Sit INside Kayaks do not have any form of integrated scuppers or drainage capabilities save for turning them over or manually via a small hand operated bilge (common accessory that several of my friends carry with them, so don't let that scare you). The hybrids are an interesting choice, becaase they offer the stability of pontoon style hulls with a seating position similar to a canoe, but still provide good tracking and speed characterisitics (Native Ultimate & Tegris models or Wilderness Systems Commanders). The other option is a hull that has alternative propulsion methods. This can be either via manual propulsion (Native Mariner or Hobie Mirage drive kayaks) or powered (Ocean Kayak Torque, Native Propel or adding a powered solution from Torqueedo or Bass Yaks designed for a specific hull - most common one is the Wilderness Commander).

If you are going to be loading the kayak manually on top of your vehicle, then weight is a concern and hulls that weigh over 70 lbs. may be a challenge unless you opted for a load assist bar from Yakima, Thule Hullavator or the new T-Bar system from Rhino Racks. If you opt for one of these systems, then kayak weight is no that much of a concern. I know my next vehicle will most likely have the Rhino Rack system, so I can then purchase a Hobie Pro Angler 12 or 14.

Regarding rod storage/carrying capabilities - rods can be carried in a number of ways: via crate assembly with an integrated 3 rod holder (what I use right now), via rod holders installed behind the seat (most kayaks can accommodate 2-4 angled rod holders - a friend of mine actually has 3 on each side for a total of 6 plus a 3 rod holder on his crate pack, the other option is via rod holders that are attached above the hull (typically RAM, Scotty or Cannon mounts). Your ability to carry rods is only limited by what you are willing to do to accommodate your needs. Just remember - the more rods you carry, the more chances of getting tangled up or possibly spending too much time switching rods versus dialing in on the fish. A common mistake in tournaments from watching other kayak anglers. The one exception to these statements is for two specific models of kayaks - the Jackson Cuda or Coosa and the Hobie Pro Angler series. The Jackson models have what they call rod stagers that basically place the rod butts a top a bungee under the hi/lo seating and stage the rod tips in small molded cutouts in front of the footwell. The Hobie Pro Anglers have integrated rod tubes that can accommodate up to 6 rods (including fly rods) on the PA14 and up to 4 rods (including fly rods) on the PA12.

You mentioned that you would like to stand - the ability to stand and sight fish at certain times of the year would be a key variable to consider - that would lend my recommendation to one of the following models: Native Watercraft Ultimate 12 or 14.5 & Slayer 12 or 14, Jackson Cuda 12 or 14, Wilderness Commander 120/140, Ride 135 or the Hobie Pro Anglers. With the Native, Jackson or Wilderness models, you could contact BassYaks and order the specific powered motor option you desire. The Pro Angler you would use your legs to power the PA and leave your hands free to fish (very advantageous in current and wind). As an individual that has shoulder problems and a less than perfect back, I love my Hobie Revolution 13 and one of the reasons I am proud to represent them as the Local Pro Staffer in Central VA. Just remember that the addition of any powered form of propulsion will most likely require registration per your respective state's requirements.

As far as storage capabilities, the hybrids and the Pro Angler offer the most flexibility to carry a cooler and additional gear. With that said, there are several custom DIY mods that folks have done to blend these needs. A common one I see is using the medium ractangular Coleman coolers and attaching a 3-4 rod holder on the back or sides using s/s hardware and then using small tackle bags or binders for their other gear. Most rear tankwells have a bungee system of some form that will permit securing items to some extent. For me personally, I have two crate systems both involve using the Coleman Snack Mate personal cooler (hold a lunch, snacks and a few bottles of water but small enough to stow up front in my bow hatch or in the tankwell behind my seat). I also have a soft sided Hobie cooler that I stow the same way. My two setups are: a standard milk crate with a 3-rod holder attached via the Precision Pak crate mate sleeve, and then I have a Flambeau medium sized marine case to store my tackle trays inside and just carry my rods in the integrated rod holders on my Revolution 13 and in the rod holders I attach up front using YakAttack GearTracs. Here's my fishing vessel of choice right now.....

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-50Q1_6Ell5Q/UAygshIQVHI/AAAAAAAACK8/5VgT9Ia0RFQ/s1024/P7220017.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ti4KrNp0VG0/T5VCR6KiUrI/AAAAAAAABwA/Q65o73c1NMA/s1024/SAM_1428.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-S4MzazrlPOk/UFzYauwfo6I/AAAAAAAACns/2pE4TAnxEjg/s1024/P9210003.JPG

I hope this helped answer some of your questions.

Chuck

[A-Jay]

Here's a note I sent to a fellow BR member who had a similar question..........

https://lh3.googleus...24/P7220017.JPG

https://lh3.googleus...24/SAM_1428.JPG

https://lh6.googleus...24/P9210003.JPG

I hope this helped answer some of your questions.

Chuck

Exceptional post Chuck - loaded with info.

Thanks for taking the time.

btw - nice rig.

A-Jay

[pkpence]

Hey guys, I have been looking at Kayaks lately, and my wife informed me this evening that I get to go get one for Christmas. I was thrilled to see this post, as I only have about $500 to spend on a kayak. I like the SOT models, and have been looking at the Perception Sport Pescador, in the 12' model. Do yall have any thoughts on this model?

All of the reviews that I have seen have been raving about it, but I am ignorant for the most part on kayaks, and would appreciate the input.

I would probably use the kayak locally in small ponds, average length of trip would be 4 hours or so.

Thanks in advance. Here is the link to the yak I am looking at... http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_196951_-1__?N=670787849

[Hanover_Yakker]

Hey guys, I have been looking at Kayaks lately, and my wife informed me this evening that I get to go get one for Christmas. I was thrilled to see this post, as I only have about $500 to spend on a kayak. I like the SOT models, and have been looking at the Perception Sport Pescador, in the 12' model. Do yall have any thoughts on this model?

All of the reviews that I have seen have been raving about it, but I am ignorant for the most part on kayaks, and would appreciate the input.

I would probably use the kayak locally in small ponds, average length of trip would be 4 hours or so.

Thanks in advance. Here is the link to the yak I am looking at... http://www.academy.c...1__?N=670787849

The Perception Pescador is the old 2008 Wilderness Systems Tarpon 120 mold sold by Confluence to Perception. It is a proven hull and is a good kayak; however, it has a few design considerations to keep in mind.

First, the hull is a traditional rounded hull with very little chining. That means the primary stability may feel a little tippy to the novice paddler while seated.

Second, the hull is not traditionally for those interested in standing and fishing. I've done it in a Tarpon 120 and 140 before, but it took some practice.

Third, the hull is not great for long distance paddling or heavy current. It turns very easy on you in windy conditions with little or no warning requiring additional paddling corrections.

Fourth, because of the hull design, re-entry of this kayak can be a little challenging for those unfamiliar with self rescue. I highly recommend practicing this technique supervised before heading out in any kayak.

Fifth, the seating position is not the best after a couple hours, but the addition of a simple inflatable donut from Walmart or CVS cures that problem. I use one and frequently fish for over 8 hours at a time.

Regardless of what kayak you end up getting, I would recommend reaching out to your local outdoor outfitter or kayak rental location and seek out a class on basic paddling and self rescue skills.

[pkpence]

Thanks for the info there, it is very helpful.

I guess I should have mentioned that I was comparing the Perception Pescador with the Heritage Angler. Any thoughts one way or the other?

[Hanover_Yakker]

The Heritage line of kayaks is now owned by Native Watercraft. Their hulls trend to be more flat and are very stable; however, they can be a bear to paddle in wind and current. A friend of mine had one for years until they started to fish in salt water more. They quickly switched over to an Ocean Kayak Trident 13 that was more maneuverable and easier to paddle over the course of a long day. If you are sticking to ponds and not paddling that much, then either the Pescador or Redfish 12 would be serviceable. I personally would recommend stepping up and getting a newer Tarpon 140, Native Manta Ray or Ride 135. 13' hulls are very functional for a variety of locations and they provide sufficient storage space as well as plenty of room for a dys worth of tackle.

Whatever kayak you are interested in, I cannot emphasize enough the importance of actual seat time on the water for more than 5-10 minutes. When you test one out, make sure you get the seat and foot pegs set correctly. Also make sure you are wearing the same style PFD you will be using. That way, you can truly assess your overall comfort level while paddling the kayak. If you are uncomfortable in the kayak assuming the other factors mentioned are equal, then imagine how uncomfortable you would feel 2 miles from shore fishing.......

[BassAssassin726]

Wow guys, thanks for all this info. Id love to be able to have one I can stand in but since I am 6'6 my center of gravity is weird. I tip easily. lol. What are the pros and cons of sit in and sit on top models? I just want something I can be comfortable in and easily transport. Im really only looking to spend like 500 since its my first one. I like some of the pictures of canoes Ive seen members post on here. They look stable and youre able to stand up which is great for someone as tall as me. But having said that they seem harder to transport, especially since I drive a Mazda. Thanks for all this info guys, You guys ROCK! Have a safe and happy holiday guys.

[Hanover_Yakker]

Wow guys, thanks for all this info. Id love to be able to have one I can stand in but since I am 6'6 my center of gravity is weird. I tip easily. lol. What are the pros and cons of sit in and sit on top models? I just want something I can be comfortable in and easily transport. Im really only looking to spend like 500 since its my first one. I like some of the pictures of canoes Ive seen members post on here. They look stable and youre able to stand up which is great for someone as tall as me. But having said that they seem harder to transport, especially since I drive a Mazda. Thanks for all this info guys, You guys ROCK! Have a safe and happy holiday guys.

If it were me, I would go to West Marine online and order their Pompano 120. It is the same mold as the Tarpon 120, and you can get it new for under your price limit and have it shipped to store at no charge. Another option this time of year as stated early on is Craigslist and your local kayak shop for end of season demo sales or people that changed their minds and need the garage space. You can find great deals this way.

One thing to remember is that even though your budget is $500, you need to account for some additional costs that cannot be overlooked.

1. Paddle - get the best you can afford (an Aqua Bound Manta Ray Cardon is a good first paddle)

2. PFD - make sure you get one that is adjustable to your size and one that is comfortable. If it doesn't fit, you won't wear it.

3. Carrying system - some opt for just the Malone foam blocks and straps. I personally recommend a rack system if you can afford it. If not, the factory crossbars will work fine, you can cover them with a pool noodle.

4. Dry bag - to hold an extra change of clothes and an on the water emergency kit to hold some key survival items (don't knock this until you understand it completely)

5. Waterproof containers - Plano Guide Series are good, but a Rubbermaid container will work. It will be used to hold your cell phone, spare key, fishing license and perhaps a spare set of clippers, forceps, chapstick, aspirin, etc.)

[spropro]

Bassassassin,

If your buying new a kayak or canoe that you could stand in is gonna be more than $500. As other have mentioned most Kayaks under $500 will be alittle hard on the bum,back and casting shoulder over extended periods. While canoes can be more comfortable to fish out of they are little harder to paddle solo and tend to get pushed around by the wind. Over 20 yrs ago I started out with an Aquaterra Keowee II kayak. I fly fished mostly rivers for smallies, some lakes for largemouths and proteched waters on the chesapeake bay.I think new it was in the mid $500 range, I could carry it myself, it has a large cockpit for holding rods, small cooler, tackle bag, very stable, and I could take one of my small children with me. Many fish have come over the side and I still use it today. I used to float the upper potomac and rappahanouck rivers here in virginia alot. When tired from sitting I would beach the kayak and wet wade for a while. The boat has been dragged over rocks, slammed into rocks, etc. I have caught stripers out of the chesapeake bay with it and now use it to catch largemouth of of the potomac and occoquan. I also, have a 15 ft canoe, a 14 ft lowes jon, and a 18 ft Parker cc. If fishing is your passion, this first boat will not be your last. Get what you can afford now and adapt your fishing to it. Most likely not your last boat purchase.

[Addicted to Smallies]

You can always go with a hybrid. I have a Mad River Adventure 14 canoe that is rotomolded and made much like a kayak. We absolutely love it. Stable and easy to fish from, and I can stand in it all day with no issues. It's tough as nails, and handles rough water in the upper Potomac really well. It's both our family canoe and my skinny-water fishing platform, and even though I recently bought a full sized bass boat, I still use this multiple times each summer to go into smallmouth territory. Plus, I can easily load it in my pickup by myself. And the seats are awesome... very comfortable for a day of paddling.

Plus, you can mount all of the kayak-specific accessories since it's all rotomolded and you can drill/screw into the sides with no problems.

[Neonsnow78]

i own a Old Town Hunter 14ft canoe that ive been slowly turning into my fishing rig. i also drive a Mazda3. My 2012Mazda3 works perfectly for this size canoe.under the hood and under the trunk i install 4 pieces of strap to tie off to. i use only foam blocks on my roof. i have a sunroof so if you do be sure to have the blocks not on the glass for safety.

[flyfisher]

I have fished the delaware and neshaminy creek back when i was a kid and i would go with a kayak myself. For one they are easier to maneuver and much easier to paddle upstream should you do a paddle out and float back type of trip.

Others have posted enough info so you can make a good choice on your kayak but my .02 would be go with a native redfish in either a 10 or 12' model and you will not be disappointed. I had the 12' as my first kayak and it served me well on rivers and lakes for a season before the kayak bug truly bit and i sold it and picked up a few other boats

[Neonsnow78]

was thinking about picking up a cheap kayak for small river fishing. While the canoe is nice and i love mine, forget trying to paddle up stream..lol