Nrx Blue Vs Nrx Green Epoxy?

[skeletor6]

Hey Guys,

So, I've had a Blue NRX 893c for a while now and also a NRX 803c which is also blue. Both of them were very similar in design and epoxy locations. I knew going into buying the NRX 893c Green that it was green, but I had figured that it would be identical to the Blue NRX, just with Green Accents instead of Blue.

So, I recieved my Green NRX 893c and I was shocked to see that Epoxy runs completely along the entire blank. Also, the location of the Model and suggested line strength and lure weights was located between the split grip, but I did not find that to matter. However, the epoxy running along the entire length of the blank has me worried.

I thought when I did readings about the Green NRX's that they were supposed to just have a new look, but be the same thing. Doesn't having epoxy along the entire blank change some features about the rod itself? I did some simple balance checks and the green NRX without a reel on it balances almost an inch further away from the reel seat. The NRX with a curado 50e on each of them have almost identical balance points with the green NRX being just 1/8th of an inch further down the shaft.

So what I am saying is I think the epoxy added some weight to the blank and the overall rod. What are your guys thoughts?

[Quillback]

I've got a green wrap 893 NRX, the Model and weight/line info is in front of the cork, where you'd expect it to be, and the epoxy is just on the wraps. I can see them moving the weight line info, even though it seems strange to put it between the grips, but epoxying the entire blank doesn't seem right, but I'm not a rod builder. Maybe give Loomis a shout?

[jeb2]

I just went and looked at mine. I have some of each. The blue rods for sure have no finish on them, besides the wrap areas. Just a raw CF look. The green ones do have a finish. I guess I just thought it was from the green color they made such a fuss about when it came out. But maybe it's some kind of clear coat?

AFAIK, all of the green ones have always had the rod specs between the split grips. Mine do for sure.

[nwmike]

I was always told that an unfinished blank would be more sensitive.my custom jig rod is built on the high end north fork composite blank which comes unfinished

[Quillback]

That 893 I have must be a blue, don't have a green to compare it to, looks like a greenish blue to me, but from Jeb's description it must be a blue.

[skeletor6]

I just went and looked at mine. I have some of each. The blue rods for sure have no finish on them, besides the wrap areas. Just a raw CF look. The green ones do have a finish. I guess I just thought it was from the green color they made such a fuss about when it came out. But maybe it's some kind of clear coat?

AFAIK, all of the green ones have always had the rod specs between the split grips. Mine do for sure.

Thank you Jeb,

Thanks for confirming the location of the rod specs is correct and so is the rod. That seems strange that it has a clear coat finish along the entire blank, compared to not having any finish on the blue. I was under the presumption that the rods were identical in everything, but color. I can definitely measure that the balance point is further down the rod on the Green and I would assume a complete epoxy finish would have affects on the rods performance. Maybe even making it a heavier rod (I don't have a scale to compare)

I got the green to match my curado's, do you have any of the same models in opposite colors and have yuo noticed any difference in performance? My Shimano Cumulus rod is unfinished after the first guide and besides my other blue NRX's those are the only high end ones I can compare it to and they are all unfinished besides the epoxy on the guides.

Bottom Line, the balance point is definitely changed between the two NRX 893's, I was wondering if the clear coat or epoxy finish throughout the entire blank likely added weight and decreased performance?

I was always told that an unfinished blank would be more sensitive.my custom jig rod is built on the high end north fork composite blank which comes unfinished

That's what I was thinking as well.

That 893 I have must be a blue, don't have a green to compare it to, looks like a greenish blue to me, but from Jeb's description it must be a blue.

My blue 893 has blue wraps with a green thread in it, but the difference between the green and blue is definitely noticeable. There's green paint that runs the length of the rod giving it the green color to the blank and also an epoxy coating it entirely. No bare blank on the green at all.

[jeb2]

Thank you Jeb,

Thanks for confirming the location of the rod specs is correct and so is the rod. That seems strange that it has a clear coat finish along the entire blank, compared to not having any finish on the blue. I was under the presumption that the rods were identical in everything, but color. I can definitely measure that the balance point is further down the rod on the Green and I would assume a complete epoxy finish would have affects on the rods performance. Maybe even making it a heavier rod (I don't have a scale to compare)

I got the green to match my curado's, do you have any of the same models in opposite colors and have yuo noticed any difference in performance?

I had both a green and blue 853 for a while. I did not notice any difference at all, and I compared them closely. But the green one broke and I replaced it with a blue one, since I prefer that color.

[LuckyHandsINC.]

There is a thread on tackle tour that compares the weights of the two Nrx's and believe it or not the green ones were lighter. Very minimal difference but lighter.

[skeletor6]

That's peculiar. You think added epoxy would make it weigh more. I read the interview of the green NRX release there and it mentions the usage of the exact same blank and components, and there only being a makeover in style. Also, some regards about "feel" as well.

One would think any added material to a blank would add weight as well. It definitely changed the balance point, at least in my 1vs1 rod sample.

I will try and find that thread thank you Lucky.

[skeletor6]

So I found the thread and read many others. I read a thread from the Shimano Rep BANTAM1 who used to chime in here I believe and it was acknowledged that the epoxy addition is not a big deal weight wise and adds about 2 grams of weight tops.

My question would be how would the rods be sold identical in everything but color, yet have clear coating the entirety of a rods blank?

So I guess the bigger question is, does a blank coated entirely with clear coat dampen the sensitivity versus the same blank that without it?

[NorcalBassin]

That's crazy... I have both blue and green 893's with different reels (Chronarch 50e, Curado 200e7) and never even considered that there was a difference. Now I'm going to have to check this out to see if it's the same with mine.

[skeletor6]

That's crazy... I have both blue and green 893's with different reels (Chronarch 50e, Curado 200e7) and never even considered that there was a difference. Now I'm going to have to check this out to see if it's the same with mine.

Yeah that's what I am saying. Check it out I am pretty sure it does. If you don't mind, take the reel off and find the balance point of each and tell me if they are identical. I found the epoxied to be further down. And have two 893's in opposite color as well.

[NorcalBassin]

Yep, epoxy definitely runs the length of the blank and the balance point is just about 1" different. Still my two favorite casting rods, but the differences were a surprise. Nice detective work!

[jeb2]

Nice detective work!

No doubt. I'm a little embarrassed I never noticed that before. Now that I know, I might start leaning toward the green rods. My blue NRX's are looking kind of beat up in places, which I attribute to them not having a clear coat/epoxy finish.

[skeletor6]

Yep, epoxy definitely runs the length of the blank and the balance point is just about 1" different. Still my two favorite casting rods, but the differences were a surprise. Nice detective work!

Thank you for checking that out. That is the exact same as my two NRX's. After I put my Curado 50e on there is only a 1/3rd inch difference. I am worried about a clear coated blank absorbing some of the vibrations. I always thought a bare blank was more sensitive than a clear coated one. Hence, the original NRX design. Do both of your 893c NRX's have the same performance and sensitivity?

No doubt. I'm a little embarrassed I never noticed that before. Now that I know, I might start leaning toward the green rods. My blue NRX's are looking kind of beat up in places, which I attribute to them not having a clear coat/epoxy finish.

I have the opposite view, I am more worried about the clear coat finish absorbing and numbing down the vibration and sensation that the NRX blank has. Does anyone who is familiar with this subject have any answers? Maybe a rod builder, or someone with both versions and their take on sensitivity?

[Quillback]

It would be nice if the ShimLoomis folks had a knowledgeable rep that was easily accesible and knew the answers to the questions that are being raised here. Instead it seems we have to figure out the NRX quirks on message boards. I find this to be annoying.

I'll use Dobyns as an example, I had an issue with a rod tip, sent an email and got a quick response from RIchard Dobyns himself. I'm sure if these questions arose with a Dobyns rod, we could fire them an email and get answers. And this is probably true from many rod makers. And it should be the case for high end rods like NRX.

I'm not trying to say Dobyns has a better product, but they are far, far better when it comes to customer service. NRX rods are great, but Shimloomis's attitude seems to be one of "take it or leave it" we don't give a flying hoot.

[jeb2]

I have the opposite view, I am more worried about the clear coat finish absorbing and numbing down the vibration and sensation that the NRX blank has. Does anyone who is familiar with this subject have any answers? Maybe a rod builder, or someone with both versions and their take on sensitivity?

I understand. My personal testing comparing a blue and green 853 says there is no difference, but I'd be interested in any evidence to the contrary. I always figured the raw blank was weight savings.

[Quillback]

I was curious and did a search on "Green NRX" to see if Shimloomis had any info out there. I found this quote from a Shimloomis rep, basically when asked about the weight difference he says it's up to us to figure it out! I am not making this up...

Justin: “Although there is no change in performance on our side we have heard from consumers and dealers that the rods feel even lighter than before. But the mind is a powerful thing!! When you like what it looks like and already know how good it fishes then your mind takes over. We weren’t worried about it and didn’t weigh them. We will let the fisherman be the judge!!”

[jeb2]

It would be nice if the ShimLoomis folks had a knowledgeable rep that was easily accesible and knew the answers to the questions that are being raised here. Instead it seems we have to figure out the NRX quirks on message boards. I find this to be annoying.

I'll use Dobyns as an example, I had an issue with a rod tip, sent an email and got a quick response from RIchard Dobyns himself. I'm sure if these questions arose with a Dobyns rod, we could fire them an email and get answers. And this is probably true from many rod makers. And it should be the case for high end rods like NRX.

I'm not trying to say Dobyns has a better product, but they are far, far better when it comes to customer service. NRX rods are great, but Shimloomis's attitude seems to be one of "take it or leave it" we don't give a flying hoot.

Excellent points. For the kind of money they are charging for these, you'd sure expect a lot more information and support. The little bit they have on their website is mostly very general and cryptic. They have NO info hanging on the reels themselves. I wonder how many folks even realize you have to register them now to be eligible for the Wild Card. And really, it's only gotten worse since Shimano pulled the contact center from Loomis into Shimano. I've called them several times about more detail on rods, and they have NEVER been able to do anything beyond read the catalog or website to me, even after being transferred to folks that were suppose to be the guy in the know. Shameful, really.

[roadwarrior]

Call Customer Service in Irvine, CA (877-577-0600) . Ask for Dan Thorburn.

If he is not available, leave a number and ask for him to call you back.

[Quillback]

I'm going to try and call that guy after the holidays. Thanks for the number.

[Quillback]

Had a long talk yesterday, at the Classic Expo, with a Shimano rep about GLX and NRX rods.  One of the things we talked about was the finish on the Green NRX vs the Blue NRX.  Turns out that it's a painted finish, not epoxy or some kind of clear coat.  The coat used on the greens has more of a gloss to it that the coat used on the Blues.  But, according to the rep, who is very knowledgeable about the manufactuiring process, it's basically the same paint, just a different appearance.  So there should be no difference between the two models because of the paint appied to the blanks.  He also mentioned that they have to paint them for UV protection for the resins that are used when manufacturing the blanks.  So even though the blues appear to be "unpainted" they do in fact have a coat of paint. 

 

If you're a rod junkie the expo is worth visiting if you're in the area.  Had long discussions with Gary Loomis and Gary Dobyns.  Also talked quite a bit to the Shimano folks and Phenix folks.  Even though there were a lot of folks at the show, not too many guys will walk up and talk to these folks who build rods for a living, so you can get quite a bit of one on one time if you're willing to start a conversation.  And they really don't do a sales job on you, there's some of that, but they're for the most part just talking rods. 

[skeletor6]

Had a long talk yesterday, at the Classic Expo, with a Shimano rep about GLX and NRX rods.  One of the things we talked about was the finish on the Green NRX vs the Blue NRX.  Turns out that it's a painted finish, not epoxy or some kind of clear coat.  The coat used on the greens has more of a gloss to it that the coat used on the Blues.  But, according to the rep, who is very knowledgeable about the manufactuiring process, it's basically the same paint, just a different appearance.  So there should be no difference between the two models because of the paint appied to the blanks.  He also mentioned that they have to paint them for UV protection for the resins that are used when manufacturing the blanks.  So even though the blues appear to be "unpainted" they do in fact have a coat of paint. 

 

If you're a rod junkie the expo is worth visiting if you're in the area.  Had long discussions with Gary Loomis and Gary Dobyns.  Also talked quite a bit to the Shimano folks and Phenix folks.  Even though there were a lot of folks at the show, not too many guys will walk up and talk to these folks who build rods for a living, so you can get quite a bit of one on one time if you're willing to start a conversation.  And they really don't do a sales job on you, there's some of that, but they're for the most part just talking rods. 

 

Thanks for the information Quillback.

 

I did some searching on TT and found bantam1 addressing the issue of the different finish on the NRX green blank. Basically, he was saying that at most the new finish adds 2 grams to each rod on average. Something that he thought was negligible. I also contacted a highly respectable rod builder who did say any added materials or weight to a blank will, in some form, take away from the sensitivity of the rod. Most likely, in this scenario, the finish on the Green NRX's is not going to take away from the sensitivity of the rod in a "noticeable" way. 

 

One speculation I have is that if you look at the Blue NRX's you will notice that there is a section where the rod specs are that have the same exact finish as the entirety of the NRX green rods. Is that a different paint job? Its hard to say, to me it looks more like a finish on top of the paint. Does anyone else have a NRX green and blue to verify the similarity between the entire green blank and the section of the blue rods with that finish? Perhaps the new paint has some sort of clear coat or epoxy material mixed in with it. 

 

Looking at lets say a Shimano Cumulus rod, they leave the entire blank just painted and unfinished after the first guide. This sort of finish feels very similar to the finish on a NRX blue rod and nothing like an NRX green rod. After hearing bantam's comments, and the observations of my rods, I am under the assumption that there is more of a finish on the Green rods than the Blue.

 

When comparing the NRX blue vs NRX green, the greens balance point without a reel on it is exactly 1 inch further down the blank and with a Curado 50e on each blank it is 1/4 inch further down the blank. Not a huge difference, but enough for me to prefer the blue over the green even though the green matches better with my reels. Also to note, differences in balance could be variance between rods. Its hard to say with just a 2 rod sample. 

 

Lpquick: "Bantam1 do you know if the green rods are heavier then the blue and does the finish affect the rods sensitivity and action?"

 

Shimanogloomis man: "yes i would like to know also and it seems the blank has a clear coat on the rod not the the blue nrx rods which means they will be heavier?"

 

Bantam1 (Shimano customer support): "The increase in weight will be maybe 2 grams at most. It will not affect the performance or sensitivity."

[Maico1]

I'm going to try and call that guy after the holidays. Thanks for the number.

He is also known as Bantam1...as quoted in Skeletor6 post.

[Quillback]

Well all I can say is that the rep I talked to (and he was very knowledgeable) said that both green and blue blanks are painted, just a different gloss level used on the green.  He said that the weights of both types of blanks should be the same. 

 

After talking with Gary Loomis, who discussed the manufacturing process for the graphite that's used in building these rods, it's very possible that there may be slight differences in weight in the graphite sheets that are used to build the rods.  I got the impression that 3M, who manufacturers the graphite, can make changes in the amount or types of materials used and won't necessarily notify the rod builders of these changes.  So I can see where rods that are manufactured at different times using the same components, may have slight variations in weight and these differences could be because of variations in the graphite, the resin, or the manufacturing process.  I'd say the weight difference you're seeing is less likely to be caused by the paint that by other factors.