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Posted

What do you guys think about this boat? http://cgi.ebay.com/...9#ht_2144wt_754

It does not have a motor, but seems like I could maybe put a cheap one in. Why would a boat not have a motor? That is confusing. If I could get that for ~$2500 it seems like it has future potential and value. What do you think?

And this one http://cgi.ebay.com/...1#ht_500wt_1182

I found boat 2 on Kalamazoo's CL. He listed it there at 1600 last week. And on that note, be diligent and check all CL cities within the distance you are willing to travel. And if you have a smartphone the CL app is awesome. When you search "bass boat" or "fishing boat" it will search what ever distance you put in.

  • Like 1
Posted

What Jason Karol wrote X2.

Have a marine tech check out the boat, motor and trailer for hidden defects and problems.

Good luck.

I will see if I can find one willing to go down with me. Thanks Sam and Jason.

First, Thanx, it means a lot !!!, and No thanx it's not for sale LOL , especially for 500 bucks Ha Ha, I still have too much fun with her anyway.

As for the price, it's really not how much it's worth to me, how much would it be worth for you? I have a sentimental side that plays with prices, this cat needs the money it seems for financial reasons and I feel his pain, that is if his story is true, so I would be willing to go as high as what the boat actually blue books at, maybe a touch more to help the guy out, see what the actual value of the boat is worth and go from there would be my suggestion, it sounds like he is willing to do anything to get rid of this boat so be careful with these kind of situations.

As for the sonar units, I have no opinion, I have not ever seen nor used any of them to give you an honest answer, but on your test drive you can check them out, as long as they work and show good detail of the structure below the boat, they will be good units.

The trolling motor should be ok, I personally do not like cable drives for the simple fact of, I am old LOL !!

I like to stand the whole time I am fishing and having one leg propped up on a pedal wears me out, but you have a good chair on the front so it should be a comfortable fit.

Your assumption is correct, it is a V-Hull glasser.

As for you girl not having any room to lay out and tan, no comment LOL !!

Once you take everything into concideration, one thing that I would suggest is to have someone with you that has operated a boat or that owns a boat that you trust to tell you the truth and let them drive the boat, since this is your first one the more feedback you can get the better.

As a last opinion I would suggest the same as Sam and Jason, if there is a boat shop somewhere that you trust, no one will be able to tell you more than they can, an honest opinion from them is worth more than the price of the boat, your safety is second to nothing when it comes to purchacing a boat, especially your first one.

Let us know what you decide !!!

Good luck and be safe !!!

Well the cheapest I can get it for is obviously the best for me. If the guys financial situation is not well, I feel his pain, but that might allow me to get a good deal on the boat too. I was more asking the price to see how low a reasonable offer would be on the boat.

So this style trolling motor has to be used while sitting down on the front chair? What style do you use and how does it differ as far as ergonomics and use? It is not a deal-breaker, but I would prefer to stand while casting and fishing. Like standing and moving close to a dock or some cover and skipping underneath it or into it and multiple points.

I found boat 2 on Kalamazoo's CL. He listed it there at 1600 last week. And on that note, be diligent and check all CL cities within the distance you are willing to travel. And if you have a smartphone the CL app is awesome. When you search "bass boat" or "fishing boat" it will search what ever distance you put in.

Thanks Shady!....That is very interesting, he must have trouble selling it at some point. Having it listed for 300 more is strange. I can certainly use the information you provided and point that out to haggle with the price.

I do have a smartphone, I will download the CL App and see how it works for me. There are often deals on CL for many different items so I check it often.

Yeah I found the other listing right here http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/boa/3271847751.html

He said its a 3 day price? Whatever that means, if he was willing to sell it at 1600 at one time a week ago, I feel it would be legitimate at lower than $1600 now that it has been up for close to two weeks and has yet to sell. As mentioned earlier, it is not a good time to sell boats in Michigan right now due to the upcoming winter. So I would have the upper hand on the negotiation especially if he is desperate.

How much would it cost to get a cover for a boat like this? I dont think there is one.

  • Super User
Posted

I will see if I can find one willing to go down with me. Thanks Sam and Jason.

Well the cheapest I can get it for is obviously the best for me. If the guys financial situation is not well, I feel his pain, but that might allow me to get a good deal on the boat too. I was more asking the price to see how low a reasonable offer would be on the boat.

So this style trolling motor has to be used while sitting down on the front chair? What style do you use and how does it differ as far as ergonomics and use? It is not a deal-breaker, but I would prefer to stand while casting and fishing. Like standing and moving close to a dock or some cover and skipping underneath it or into it and multiple points.

Thanks Shady!....That is very interesting, he must have trouble selling it at some point. Having it listed for 300 more is strange. I can certainly use the information you provided and point that out to haggle with the price.

I do have a smartphone, I will download the CL App and see how it works for me. There are often deals on CL for many different items so I check it often.

Yeah I found the other listing right here http://kalamazoo.cra...3271847751.html

He said its a 3 day price? Whatever that means, if he was willing to sell it at 1600 at one time a week ago, I feel it would be legitimate at lower than $1600 now that it has been up for close to two weeks and has yet to sell. As mentioned earlier, it is not a good time to sell boats in Michigan right now due to the upcoming winter. So I would have the upper hand on the negotiation especially if he is desperate.

How much would it cost to get a cover for a boat like this? I dont think there is one.

See what we were saying LOL !!!

I would feel comfortable at 800 to 1,200 range, if everything worked, get the numbers off the boat and run a check for its actual value then deduct for carpet and sun damage, start on the low end of the scale and work your way up if you really are interested, that would be my suggestion or since this deal seams a little shady I would most likely just keep looking, again unless you are really interested in this boat.

A cover for this boat is around 40 bucks at Wal-Mart in my area, but they are what you pay for, the better the cover the more it costs.

As for the cable drive, the answer is no, you do not have to sit down to use this system, I was simply talking about being old or older LOL !!

I personally do not like to sit down and fish, my job requires me to be up all day on a concrete floor, sitting too long will make it hard for me to get up and down, therefor I am much more comfortable standing

For me I can still use that cable system but it makes my legs tired on windy days when you have to stand and be on top of the trolling motor all day with one leg higher than the other, the waters I fish are too deep for a power pole to be used and a lot of times I will just toss an anchor out.

The cable drives are awesome systems, what I have switched to is a flat foot pedal that is electronic, for me it works better and is much more comfortable to use, you may like the cable drive trolling motor control, so don't be discouraged by my opinion.

Posted

See what we were saying LOL !!!

I would feel comfortable at 800 to 1,200 range, if everything worked, get the numbers off the boat and run a check for its actual value then deduct for carpet and sun damage, start on the low end of the scale and work your way up if you really are interested, that would be my suggestion or since this deal seams a little shady I would most likely just keep looking, again unless you are really interested in this boat.

A cover for this boat is around 40 bucks at Wal-Mart in my area, but they are what you pay for, the better the cover the more it costs.

As for the cable drive, the answer is no, you do not have to sit down to use this system, I was simply talking about being old or older LOL !!

I personally do not like to sit down and fish, my job requires me to be up all day on a concrete floor, sitting too long will make it hard for me to get up and down, therefor I am much more comfortable standing

For me I can still use that cable system but it makes my legs tired on windy days when you have to stand and be on top of the trolling motor all day with one leg higher than the other, the waters I fish are too deep for a power pole to be used and a lot of times I will just toss an anchor out.

The cable drives are awesome systems, what I have switched to is a flat foot pedal that is electronic, for me it works better and is much more comfortable to use, you may like the cable drive trolling motor control, so don't be discouraged by my opinion.

I do see you preference for the electronic system. That does seem nice for trolling, I am young enough to not be picky I guess. Sounds like you got a tough job. I am with you, I would rather be standing up and fishing I feel more can be accomplished this way and I would be more ready.

The owner contacted me again after me not responding to him for a couple days. I am trying to figure out if it is a shady deal, or if this guy just needs the money for other purposes and a boat isn't priority right now. The latter of the two is my hopeful scenario.

I am not in love with the boat by any means, but if I can get a "glasser" for $800-$1000 that doesn't end up being a money-pit I would be thoroughly satisfied. Since all I am really looking to do is get out there and fish effectively and to be able to do so on a consistent basis.

I get jealous of you guys who make it out there 50+ days a year. I went fishing maybe 20, and not with good results that I see many of the people onhere having. A boat like this should be able to allow me to get out more and practice and get better and more importantly have fun. Having to sit in a spot anchored down sucks. Trolling around with freedom at many different lakes sounds enjoyable and is enviable at the moment. :pray:

  • Super User
Posted

I do see you preference for the electronic system. That does seem nice for trolling, I am young enough to not be picky I guess. Sounds like you got a tough job. I am with you, I would rather be standing up and fishing I feel more can be accomplished this way and I would be more ready.

The owner contacted me again after me not responding to him for a couple days. I am trying to figure out if it is a shady deal, or if this guy just needs the money for other purposes and a boat isn't priority right now. The latter of the two is my hopeful scenario.

I am not in love with the boat by any means, but if I can get a "glasser" for $800-$1000 that doesn't end up being a money-pit I would be thoroughly satisfied. Since all I am really looking to do is get out there and fish effectively and to be able to do so on a consistent basis.

I get jealous of you guys who make it out there 50+ days a year. I went fishing maybe 20, and not with good results that I see many of the people onhere having. A boat like this should be able to allow me to get out more and practice and get better and more importantly have fun. Having to sit in a spot anchored down sucks. Trolling around with freedom at many different lakes sounds enjoyable and is enviable at the moment. :pray:

I am jealous of those who do as well, family and bills that have all but doubled on a lot of us this past presidential term have not let me get anywhere near the water but once this past year and only a handfull of times in the past 3 years.

A boat to troll around in is going to give you a lot of different things, I know you are excited about the prospect of being a new boat owner as we all are/were for the first time, but take your time and find the right match for you, get the best deal you can and the best fit for you and your girl.

The more you save the better the boat you will be able to purchace, or if you choose to you can upgrade some things on your purchace.

You stated you are not in love with the boat by any means, with that being said I would trust myself and keep looking for something that peaks your interest, if you are interested in something you wont mind doing your homework before you buy and taking good care of your purchace in the long run will come much more satisfying to you.

No matter what you decide we wish you the best of luck and we are looking forward to seeing what you get here in the future.

Good luck and be safe !!!

Posted

Here's my experince buying my first bass boat. This spring I purchased a 1980 HydraSport 158vee powered by a 1980 90hp Mercury on a whim not knowing anything about boats. The guy was asking for $2,900 and himself didn't know much about boats. He told me he got it on a whim at an estate auction for $1,200 with the soul purpose of selling it for a profit. When I bought the boat the seats were torn, the carpet was pretty ratty and the trailer needed new tires but I knew I could easily replace those things for not to much money. He started the outboard for me and it sounded alright, I liked the look and shape of the boat and was excited so we negotiated for $2,500 and I took home my first bass boat.

Here's a pic of it in his driveway from the craigslist listing.

250780_655512906857_1545033447_n.jpg

I bought new trailer tires, carpet and seats shortly after I brought her home for roughly $450. I noticed a ding under the bow that was down to wood so I patched it myself with a typical fiberglass kit. I used the boat quite often over the early summer on an electric only lake and I was quite happy. I deicided it was time to prep it for bigger waters and took it to my local Marine mechanic to service my lower end only to find out that my lower unit is bone dry and my prop shaft is bent. I got scared that I might have bought a complete lemon, did a compression test on the motor and thanked god all the cylinders were over 120.

The mechanic recommended I look for a used lower unit which I found on ebay for around $250. He explained to me how to install it while he put on a new water pump for me in his shop. I did so and now my outboard is running great. So aside from the initial cost the boat ended up costing me about $3200 not including the other stuff I've upgraded like fish finders etc that wasnt necessary to get it fishing.

Here she is today, sorry for lack of a better picture I have yet to take one lol.

boat.jpg

Now my thought's on my experiences on buying my first bass boat thus far. I've only had her out on a river where I can use the outboard but only for short distances 3 times and damaged my prop on the 2nd outing hitting a rock. That was another $100 to replace lol. Anyhow I have been having some trouble keeping the boat from porpoising after getting it up on plane but I think that's due to my inexperience driving it and also being over weight capacity by about 100lbs w/ 2 people on board. The boat has a 3 person 300lb max capacity which I didn't really put into much consideration until after I bought it and discovered my porpoising issue. I plan to take her out on much bigger waters next year and get more comfortable driving it to see if the porposing is truly an issue or just user error. All in all I love my boat but the more I fish from it and see other boats I wish I had a larger front deck, a rod locker and overall more storeage and plan to upgrade to a larger boat that meets FLW requirements in the future and will definately spend more time in my search.

The moral of the story, I don't feel like I got a good deal but I'm satisfied with my purchase and use it a hell of a lot wihch personally justifies my expense. I know it's a very exciting purchase but DONT RUSH into any boat, maybe save a little more money, you will eventually find a great deal that is everything that your looking for and absolutely follow the advice that has been given to you on checking out everything on the boat before purchasing.

Posted

I am jealous of those who do as well, family and bills that have all but doubled on a lot of us this past presidential term have not let me get anywhere near the water but once this past year and only a handfull of times in the past 3 years.

A boat to troll around in is going to give you a lot of different things, I know you are excited about the prospect of being a new boat owner as we all are/were for the first time, but take your time and find the right match for you, get the best deal you can and the best fit for you and your girl.

The more you save the better the boat you will be able to purchace, or if you choose to you can upgrade some things on your purchace.

You stated you are not in love with the boat by any means, with that being said I would trust myself and keep looking for something that peaks your interest, if you are interested in something you wont mind doing your homework before you buy and taking good care of your purchace in the long run will come much more satisfying to you.

No matter what you decide we wish you the best of luck and we are looking forward to seeing what you get here in the future.

Good luck and be safe !!!

You could not have been more helpful. I thank you so much for all of your responses and efforts to get me to the intellectual point where I should be on this purchase. Furthermore, I would also like to thank all others for their contributions and experiences as well, I had no idea of the different items to look at or the horror stories that could result from buying the wrong way.

Here's my experince buying my first bass boat. This spring I purchased a 1980 HydraSport 158vee powered by a 1980 90hp Mercury on a whim not knowing anything about boats. The guy was asking for $2,900 and himself didn't know much about boats. He told me he got it on a whim at an estate auction for $1,200 with the soul purpose of selling it for a profit. When I bought the boat the seats were torn, the carpet was pretty ratty and the trailer needed new tires but I knew I could easily replace those things for not to much money. He started the outboard for me and it sounded alright, I liked the look and shape of the boat and was excited so we negotiated for $2,500 and I took home my first bass boat.

Here's a pic of it in his driveway from the craigslist listing.

250780_655512906857_1545033447_n.jpg

I bought new trailer tires, carpet and seats shortly after I brought her home for roughly $450. I noticed a ding under the bow that was down to wood so I patched it myself with a typical fiberglass kit. I used the boat quite often over the early summer on an electric only lake and I was quite happy. I deicided it was time to prep it for bigger waters and took it to my local Marine mechanic to service my lower end only to find out that my lower unit is bone dry and my prop shaft is bent. I got scared that I might have bought a complete lemon, did a compression test on the motor and thanked god all the cylinders were over 120.

The mechanic recommended I look for a used lower unit which I found on ebay for around $250. He explained to me how to install it while he put on a new water pump for me in his shop. I did so and now my outboard is running great. So aside from the initial cost the boat ended up costing me about $3200 not including the other stuff I've upgraded like fish finders etc that wasnt necessary to get it fishing.

Here she is today, sorry for lack of a better picture I have yet to take one lol.

boat.jpg

Now my thought's on my experiences on buying my first bass boat thus far. I've only had her out on a river where I can use the outboard but only for short distances 3 times and damaged my prop on the 2nd outing hitting a rock. That was another $100 to replace lol. Anyhow I have been having some trouble keeping the boat from porpoising after getting it up on plane but I think that's due to my inexperience driving it and also being over weight capacity by about 100lbs w/ 2 people on board. The boat has a 3 person 300lb max capacity which I didn't really put into much consideration until after I bought it and discovered my porpoising issue. I plan to take her out on much bigger waters next year and get more comfortable driving it to see if the porposing is truly an issue or just user error. All in all I love my boat but the more I fish from it and see other boats I wish I had a larger front deck, a rod locker and overall more storeage and plan to upgrade to a larger boat that meets FLW requirements in the future and will definately spend more time in my search.

The moral of the story, I don't feel like I got a good deal but I'm satisfied with my purchase and use it a hell of a lot wihch personally justifies my expense. I know it's a very exciting purchase but DONT RUSH into any boat, maybe save a little more money, you will eventually find a great deal that is everything that your looking for and absolutely follow the advice that has been given to you on checking out everything on the boat before purchasing.

Wow, thank you for the detailed response about your own personal experience. It sounds like you were in a very similar situation that I am in right now. I am very sorry to here about the unfortunate problems you encountered. The boat looks great though. The story of what you went through is something that I am hoping to avoid if possible. I am glad that it did not turn out to be a lemon. After hearing about what you went through, it definitely makes sense to me why I was directed to check all of these different properties of the boat for its integrities. I had no clue that so many problems could arise in a boat.

I'll take your advice and not rush into it. I really appreciate you sharing your story with me, that definitely sheds light on what everyone has preached about in this thread. Thank you

  • Super User
Posted

You did a heck of a nice job there Sun Fish !!!!!

Your porpoising can be from having the trim too far up while the boat is trying to plane, if I may offer a suggestion, tuck your engine all the way down or in before you take off, once the boat starts to plane and the nose flattens out then start your trim up until the boat starts to ride smooth, once you get the hang of knowing where the boat is most comfortable it will be easy to get it on plane.

  • Super User
Posted

You could not have been more helpful. I thank you so much for all of your responses and efforts to get me to the intellectual point where I should be on this purchase. Furthermore, I would also like to thank all others for their contributions and experiences as well, I had no idea of the different items to look at or the horror stories that could result from buying the wrong way.

Wow, thank you for the detailed response about your own personal experience. It sounds like you were in a very similar situation that I am in right now. I am very sorry to here about the unfortunate problems you encountered. The boat looks great though. The story of what you went through is something that I am hoping to avoid if possible. I am glad that it did not turn out to be a lemon. After hearing about what you went through, it definitely makes sense to me why I was directed to check all of these different properties of the boat for its integrities. I had no clue that so many problems could arise in a boat.

I'll take your advice and not rush into it. I really appreciate you sharing your story with me, that definitely sheds light on what everyone has preached about in this thread. Thank you

All we can do is give you our suggestions and as much info as we can from our own personal experiences, we appreciate you taking them into consideration and we hope it helps you make the best decision you can.

I would also like to say good job all, I too learned something with the app you can get for you cell phone LOL thats pretty cool to know !!!

Posted

That's right I'm using that now too. lol

They shut down some cool websites that would do a good job too. Now I use this one for mass searching. http://www.searchtempest.com/

They used to have a site called crazedlist.org and it was awesome. It would search all databases that you wanted it too and display it in a nice way. These other ones aren't too bad.

Posted

Also check out the marina's within reasonable distance from you. I find some of them near me have some nice used inventory with some decent prices and that also makes financing an option on something SLIGHTLY more expensive ;)

Posted

Also check out the marina's within reasonable distance from you. I find some of them near me have some nice used inventory with some decent prices and that also makes financing an option on something SLIGHTLY more expensive ;)

Unfortunately I am not looking to finance a boat, but thank you for the alternate idea.

What do you guys think of this boat?

http://holland.craig...3244359232.html

"Cables and steering wheel are brand new. Transom is good also I have a plate in there to keep it good. I checked compression this spring and its perfect. The engine runs good and goes fast. " Quote from seller to me.

Also, what style boat is this? It looks different from the other glasser boats and is older, but seems fairly wide. How much would it be worth considering all the questions I am supposed to ask and assess check out:?

Posted

Thanks SunFish, that's actually the same boat I posted in the OP I believe. I spoke with the guy and he said he was one $2500 firm and negotiations ended from there. I noticed he reposted a few days ago. It sounds like that he is saying "We're looking to sell" seems like maybe his wife is pushing him too lol. Maybe he'll come down with some time he's had this going for almost a month at that price.

Posted

In my experience cash is king.

I got my boat for 700 less than the guy was asking by showing up with cash. He was 'firm' on his price too.

Posted

How about this one... http://kalamazoo.cra...3320949245.html buy it with out the motor for $1500 and worry about it down the road. That is a sweet rig.

This could be a good project for $700, Its similiar year and model to my boat.

http://sanother site.craigsli...3379658539.html

For the first one you listed. What could I do with it without a motor and steering? How much would it cost to get a motor and steering and have someone install it for me? It said something about HYD steering....I dont know what that is. Furthermore, it does not come with a trolling motor or fish finder. Those would be two things I need to buy to get the boat even on the water. Would I be able to fish with just a trolling motor trolling me around? Would it be hard to get it on and off the trailer without an engine? Thanks and I sent an email to the guy.

The second boat you posted is a lot like yours. Although it is cheap, I texted the guy to see if he could tell me more about it. He said it is a complete mess in the ad and does look like it would require a lot of work. This is work that I would not be able to do myself. How much $ of work do you think it would take on that boat.

How about this one though guys, it seems pretty nice, or is there a reason that I should not consider it. http://kalamazoo.cra...3380612750.html

Here is what the guy said when I asked him the questions you all told me to ask....

"Hi there. Let me just start off by saying I am a professional marine mechanic and you know all the right questions to ask! Engine runs great and haven't had any issues. The transom is very solid and no movement. I did a compression check on it this spring and have no problem doing it again to show you. Steering cables are in good shape. No damage to the hull and never had any repairs done to it. The gel coat is a little faded but very normal for something this year. I do not have a rear seat, but they are still available and aren't expensive. Don't know much about the trolling motor, it is factory installed so no ratings but it is very strong and moves the boat with no problems. Battery is 2 years old I believe. Never had to charge it this year but that may be different depending on how much you use it. I do not have a cover for it any longer, I've been keeping it in the garage. The trailer tires work but would probably need replacing at some point. All the gauges on the dash work and so does the stereo. The radio doesn't work but I was using a cassette adaptor with an iPod and it worked great. Any more questions just let me know. Or if you want to come take a look at it. Thanks"

What do you guys think? It is listed at $2900 and it seems to have everything. Or is this boat not a good fishing boat and too much like a ski boat? Need some input from the expert (you guys) on this. I appreciate the help!

Posted

Yea i feel ya man. I didnt realize that boat didnt have a trolling motor til u mentioned it. Hell the last couple times i was out this year on a small 1 mile long lake, I didnt turn my gas engine on once. Just used the trolling motor. I just used the winch to get it back on the trailer when i was done and wasnt bad at all really. That Fish n Ski boat would probably work fine. Thats all up to you if it would fit your "style" so to say. Lol, and if you get bored fishing you and your buddies can go skiing. Bring some chicks out on the water you know the deal :)

Posted

Yea i feel ya man. I didnt realize that boat didnt have a trolling motor til u mentioned it. Hell the last couple times i was out this year on a small 1 mile long lake, I didnt turn my gas engine on once. Just used the trolling motor. I just used the winch to get it back on the trailer when i was done and wasnt bad at all really. That Fish n Ski boat would probably work fine. Thats all up to you if it would fit your "style" so to say. Lol, and if you get bored fishing you and your buddies can go skiing. Bring some chicks out on the water you know the deal :)

Lol, that is true. But what about it in terms of a fishing boat? I am more concerned about fishing at the moment. I like the style of the smaller boats that glide on the water, but is this one a good deal if I could get it for like $2000 perhaps, or should I keep looking? It almost looks like a speed boat and I do not want a speed boat. I want a boat for fishing, it just seems like it may be a good fishing boat, what do you think in terms of fishing. Everything else seems to check out?

Posted

Probably about 6 rods tops. Not a whole lot of tackle, I keep my plastics and jigs in bags right now, dont have many tackle boxes.

Posted

I was looking on craigslist in your area earlier. You got a pretty good selection out your way.

Posted

I was looking on craigslist in your area earlier. You got a pretty good selection out your way.

Yeah, there are many cities I can travel too and it is getting really cold out and moving towards winter. Not very many more fishing days left. People are looking to sell for the winter, I want to buy while the prices are lowe. Hoping I can get a nice boat that would be unaffordable this spring.

I noticed people who post nice deals are having trouble selling their boats as well. I am hoping I can find one that fits the criteria you guys have gave me so I am prepared for next spring.

  • 5 months later...
Posted

Update: Hey guys I am back at it. No luck last year, I am back at it this year for the season. I still would like to sit at the range mentioned in the title. And most philosophies stand true. I would like opinions on the following stretch-my-budget boat. http://centralmich.craigslist.org/boa/3717511423.html

 

Furthermore, the bass tracker aluminum boats with decks on front and back seem to fit the bill. I missed out on one a couple days a go. Just looking for some input.

 

Thanks all.

 

~Skel

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