Few Questions About Braid.

[ZooB]

So, I just spooled up my Abu Garcia Black Max combo with #30 PowerPro Braid, And now i have a few questions. First of all, I was just reading an article trying to find some answers and came across a good point about braid being coarse and read that it can tear through some rod guides.... Is this going to happen to me? I do not want to risk ruining my rod guides. Secondly, I read in the package not to tie Clinch knots with braid because the braid is slippery and it will come undone, does this apply for the Improved clinch as well? Either way, i tied the jig on with a palomar, which leads to my final question: Should i tie directly to the braid, or use a mono OR flouro leader?? I fish mostly spinnerbaits and buzzbaits on this rod, but am going to be pitching jigs alot this weekend probably, I need to work on my more "Finesse" style fishing so i dont end up fishing a white spinnerbait the whole time.... Yes it catches me fish, but i want to find a new way to catch them.

Thanks guys.

[West Coast Bass]

use a double uni knot to tie either mono or fluoro to braid for a leader. it really depends on the type of water you are fishing. if it is stained you may be able to get away with braid, but with finesse a leader will put you miles ahead. this way you can use whatever knot you prefer. i love straight braid for topwater and hollow body frogs through slop, but i use 65 lb test.

should not tear up your rod guides. i have never heard of that though so dont quote me. different guides feel smoother than others but i have never had any problems. tight lines

[SirSnookalot]

Braid does not ruin guides, at least not modern rods. A leader is a personal choice decision, I never fish without one. I call this as I see it, a simple clinch knot has always held braid when I fish for bass, but probably not the best knot. I use for my braided lines, I only use 10-15# for fresh and 15-20# for salt, is an improved clinch. Most of my targets are 7- 20# , the knot is a proven winner for me. When I'm targeting bigger fish I sometimes give a double wrap on the final knot step, holds like a vise. Whatever knot you use, tie it right, the best knot in the world is useless if you have tied it wrong.

[moguy1973]

The palomar knot a so much easier knot to tie and it works really well for braid, why not just tie that?

And if you use a leader join the mono/fluoro to the braid with an alberto or albright knot.

[Jim_M]

I cast with braid and fish with mono or fluoro leaders. With short leaders (2' or less) I use the Seaguar Knot occasionally. http://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/seaguar-knot/

More and more the Alberto is becoming a real favorite.

Both have been 100%

[River Rat316]

IMHO leaders are a waste of time, even with Floro the fish know something is there, they can feel the vibrations your line gives off through there lateral line, I only use braid on 1 rod and it is not a visibility thing why I don't use braid, its because I don't like the no stretch factor. The 1 rod I use braid on is my swim jig rod, its so I can snap my lure through weeds easier, the no stretch gives me more power to clear heavy weed clumps and draw strikes, other wise I use all mono or flouro, the stretch just works better for me in every other application.

[Darren.]

Opinions will be all over the map on this one.

I like leaders and have no problem with line-to-leader knot confidence.

Try it and see if it makes a difference for YOU.

There are a lot of knots to try, suggested above, but let me add the Albright Special. I find it to be the smallest knot and is incredibly strong. To make it stronger, wrap UP the line first, 7-10 wraps, then back down over those wraps with another 5 or 6. Then moisten, tighten.

I find Albright Special and Uni-to-uni quickest and easiest to tie when on water if I need to change out a leader. AS is the my first choice, though.

I've got 40lb Power Pro on one of my bait casters and do use a leader with it.

One thing I prefer with leaders is the spool (of fluoro or whatever) lasts a lot longer. Braid for mainline, unless you nest it, will not need changing out for a considerable amount of time. Only thing that has to change is the leader. You can use what you want and save a bundle over having to spool FC or such every few trips...

My .02.

[roadwarrior]

Well, here's a story for what it's worth:

My friend and BassResource Moderator 00 mod took a little trip to Mexico this summer.

He and his buddy caught a few fish. Testing equipment during a strong bite eliminates

a lot of variables. He found that Yo-Zuri Hybrid and fluorocarbon outfished braid 2:1.

Here's the rest of the story and a couple of pics:

http://www.bassresou...-in-4-days-wow/

[dam0007]

Only time I use Braid is to snag bunker I think its spooled with 30#. Clinch knot has been on there for 3+ years no prob, and if you know what snagging bunker intails then you know the line has been beaten to ish.

I just don't understand the point of 65# braid against 2-4# fish. I really don't. Smh

That Yo-zuri Hybrid stuff could not cast more then 20ft on 3 different poles for me switched back to Spider Mono 6# 50 yards easy

[roadwarrior]

Sounds like you bought the wrong size for your gear;

#6 Yo-Zuri Htybrid for spinning gear

#12 Hybrid for baitcasting tackle

[ZooB]

Thanks a lot guys for all the tips. I will experiment with using leaders tonight on the lake. I find it odd that all of you have said braid does not ruin guides when the article i read came from this site, but it is very nice to know. As for tying a leader i already just learned the double uni last night to tie the braid to my mono backing, But i will give the alberto a shot, it looks so much simpler and faster to tie.

As for my reasoning for trying braid: Im just not all that happy with the mono's i have been using and want something with little to no stretch. i am aware this can also have adverse effects, but isnt this why we have so many brands and types of lines? they all have a drawback. Im also excited to see if the line memory will not be quite as bad with braid. I already prefer the feel of the line on my thumb while casting, and the sensitivity is off the charts. Maybe down the line i will try a flourocarbon line (forgive the bad pun? haha) But right now, i just bought two spools of powerpro and if all goes well with the 30 on my bait caster, i want to get 15 or 20 for my Dropshot/Senko rig I'm putting together. Its all about feeling every little nibble for me. Missed strikes SUCK.

Happy fishing everyone. Thanks again for all the comments, keep the suggestions coming.

P.S.---- I caught the fatty in my portrait on #10 mono, So i know i dont need #30, its not about the strength for me so much as the lack of stretch at an affordable price relative to flouro. The added confidence that my line will hold no matter the situation i throw at it, is just a bonus.

[dam0007]

@roadwarrior it was def 6# idk my rod just didn't like it. We used it for dropping jigs off the boat as well as trolled (lake trout) and it held up great. Maybe the lures I was trying it with weren't beefy enough. :/

[dam0007]

@ZooB I'm not against using braid persay, I just want to give the fish I fighting chance. You don't go deer hunting with a AK-47 you use a single shot rifle or a arrow. Now if your eating every fish you catch then no argument but for sportsmanship ehhh :/

BTW the rod I snag bunker with is a Ugly Stik the guides are as good as new and yes that is the same clinch knot for years that hasn't been retied. I've had some huge blues and stripers nail bunker while I'm snagging too. That knot is awesome for me. I have it tied to a snap swivel and to that a steel leader. From what I recall other braids years ago frayed bad and that's what got me into using spider wire. Their stuff rocks. Let me know how the power pro works out for you. Would love to get a general idea on the abrasion resistence of the current gen of it.

[SirSnookalot]

Well, here's a story for what it's worth:

My friend and BassResource Moderator 00 mod took a little trip to Mexico this summer.

He and his buddy caught a few fish. Testing equipment during a strong bite eliminates

a lot of variables. He found that Yo-Zuri Hybrid and fluorocarbon outfished braid 2:1.

Here's the rest of the story and a couple of pics:

http://www.bassresou...-in-4-days-wow/

The OP is question about braid harming guides, a knot to use with braid and whether a leader is needed with braid.

Yozuri may or may not be a good line but a 4 day outing is not proof that it out catches braid. Were the same techniques, times of days, lures and both given 50% time? Even if that were the case, 3-6 months or more may be better to evaluate which works better, 4 days is a short period.........It was a great outing.

I just don't understand the point of 65# braid against 2-4# fish. I really don't. Smh

I can't see it either, the opinion is that while using b/c gear 65# won't dig in to itself. Hollow braid, as i'm told by those that use 20# lies flat and will not dig in.

[River Rat316]

The reason for the heavier braid is so it won't dig into itself, and also won't "cast off" heavier lures if you have an professional over run like 20lb would. Also if you are in real heavy slop you could be bringing in 5lbs of fish and 10lbs of veg, but I still go with yozuri Hybrid in most situations

[dam0007]

@riverrat316 Here's a perfect example of what 6# test mono is capable of and why 65# braid is way too much overkill.

Last week LMB hits my sz3 weedless Gamagatsu (spellcheck lol) hook with a rubber worm. Bass went thru some downed branches and got hung up on some line someone cut. I ended up pulling in the fish like a 2 pounder, the branch 30lbs of dead weight and all the crap that was tangled to it from 20+ feet away. Yea it took me 5 extra mins. Fish was released alive thankfully he made it. All it took was patience and skill. So for me to say I would have needed braid or I wouldn't of been able to land the fish due to the situation you would think d**n this guy doesn't know how to fish.

The whole digging into itself thing must be a baitcaster thing which I know nothing about. Most of the guys I've ever spoken to around here live by Fluor for BC and Mono for spinning. Salt water is a whole different animal, I wouldn't expect anyone to catch a 400lb Marlin on 6# mono lol.

[roadwarrior]

The OP is question about braid harming guides, a knot to use with braid and whether a leader is needed with braid.

Yozuri may or may not be a good line but a 4 day outing is not proof that it out catches braid. Were the same techniques,

times of days, lures and both given 50% time? Even if that were the case, 3-6 months or more may be better to evaluate

which works better, 4 days is a short period.........It was a great outing.

He was also asking about leaders. As far as the "test" goes, this was not isolated, just proof positive. Four days like that

has convinced me that direct tie is not the way to go.

[ZooB]

Thanks again everyone, i Decided to go with about a 3 foot leader of some 12# copoly i had sitting around, P-line Voltage. Although i didnt get to go fishing today because the wind was too strong, i rigged it and was practicing pitching in my back yard and it holds well(caught the jig between two rocks and figured id try and pull a bit to test the knots) Im using a double uni for the braid-to-leader and a palomar on the jig. I agree that a palomar is much simpler than the improved clinch ive been using for so long, and seems like it would be stronger as well due to two pieces of line through the eye instead of only one. I plan on buying some flouro leader material. Anyone have a suggestion on where i can get a small spool of flouro for leaders?

I wish i could have tested it on the water, but so far in the back yard i like it a lot. its a lot softer on the thumb it seems, and i cant see it breaking any time soon. If anything my knots are going to be tested harder than ever before now, but i have confidence... Now to just wait on my order of Northstar Knockouts and hit the water to catch my first ever jig fish.

[rockchalk06]

You can get some brands of Fluoro at Walmart. Just make sure to look for tampering of the box etc.

Your gonna love those NS jigs. I just got my order of KO's Blacks and Swims today. 25 in total!!!!

[dam0007]

For fresh I just started using Berkely vanish 110yard spool was like $4 at Dicks. I use a no name brand my local shop sells for my salt rigs. No probs with vanish so far tho im sure some of these guys may know better.

Make sure you spit on your knots before you cinch down!! Youtube is your friend!! Lol

[SirSnookalot]

The OP is question about braid harming guides, a knot to use with braid and whether a leader is needed with braid.

Yozuri may or may not be a good line but a 4 day outing is not proof that it out catches braid. Were the same techniques,

times of days, lures and both given 50% time? Even if that were the case, 3-6 months or more may be better to evaluate

which works better, 4 days is a short period.........It was a great outing.

He was also asking about leaders. As far as the "test" goes, this was not isolated, just proof positive. Four days like that

has convinced me that direct tie is not the way to go.

My preference for using a leader over direct tie with braid isn't based only on the number of fish I catch, one reason is foul hooking the trebles, a leader unravels easier.

No dispute that 00mod's outing was wonderful, but only 4 days on 1 or 2 bodies of water doesn't prove that Yozuri is better than braid or even better than another brand of mono, copoly or fc, it only shows he had good time. To fully evaluate any kind rod/reel/lines/ lures and even techniques, IMO quite a bit of time has to be invested and compared with other brands to form a personal opinion and then it's still an opinion.

@dam007, another reason why 65# braid is popular is the emulation of professionals that are cranking, yanking and dragging in small fish to boat them quickly to get on to the next cast. That's fine for the person that's working to earn some $$, but for me as recreational fisherman using line that heavy is totally out of question. Open water fishing is a different story, some very good sized fish are caught using rods/reels and lines that are not overly heavy, that said those fish are not yanked in within 30 seconds, you gotta know how to land them.

[TRYTOFISH]

no leader. suffix 50# 832. polamer knot

[fishking247]

learn to tie a palomar knot to your lure and you will never have to worry about knot failure.

no need for leader unless fishing topwater baits with trebles. the leader helps by not having the braid tangle up in your treble hooks. if you decide to use a leader google "alberto knot". the easiest braid to mono/fluoro knot out there and it is strong!

good luck but just remember no stretch in braid is not always a good thing

[SoFlaBassAddict]

One thing so often forgotten is abrasion resistance. Braid and rocks just do not go together. If I know I'm in an area that I stand a chance of having some line abrasion, I'll usually toss on an appropriate leader with an Albright or Alberto knot. To the OP, just spend some time experimenting with and without a leader. See which one you like the best and stick with it.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.