What Would You Do?

[Christian M]

So last week I was fishing a local catch & release pond located in a retirement community. You need a pass to fish the water, lucky for me my buddy's grandmother lives there & she got us passes. Since its so restricted & not many residents fish the pond its loaded with bass in the 2-6lb+ range. Its also got a healthy population of Chain Pickeril, and if you live in the northeast, you know that on days when the bass bite is off, a few big Pickeril can save the day. Well while we were fishing this local pond last week, my buddy caught a HUGE 4lb+ Pickeril. He was trying to shake the fish off his hooks because he left his pliers in the car. One of the residents who we have become friendly with & whose property we fishing near happened to be there. He went over to his yard to get his pliers, when he returned my buddy had finally gotten the fish off the hooks & it was still laying in shallow water. The resident goes over to this big beautiful fish, steps on it & proceeds to break its jaws in several places, then kicks it back in to the water leaving it to suffer & die slowly. When my buddy expressed his disapproval of the mans actions, he said "I kill every pickeril I catch because they eat up all the baby bass". My buddy tried to explain that chain pickeril are a native fish that play an important role in the balance of the eco-system and that they help keep the bass population in check, not to mention its illegal to kill or keep anything out of that pond. The guy didnt want to hear it & just walked away seemingly annoyed. I have half a mind to call fish & game & let them know what this guy is doing, but I don't want to make any enemies or rock the boat. What would you guys do in this situation?

[North Ga Hillbilly]

I dont have a problem with the guy killing the pickeril, tho I sure wouldn't do the same. But his methods are about as crude as I can imagine. You've got alot of issues to debate with yourself about what to do, but Id say your justified in taking some sort of action.

NGaHB

[WRB]

The pickerel hater is a resident, so try to educate the homeowners if they have a HOA. Otherwise all you will do is anger the home owner and lose your fishing rights. This was not the first or the last pickerel to die at this pond. My guess is some of the home owners don't like the bass eating the other fish and kill the bass.

Remember you are a guest and enjoy the fishing.

Tom

[SirSnookalot]

Certainly nothing I would do as a resident, but he lives there and you are a guest. I live in a community and at least my HOA isn't all that interested in the fish population, mentioning it to them just could result in some kind of enforcement, it isn't worth the mention. HOA board members AKA condo commanders, best just to stay away from.

[Tuckahoe Joe]

Gotta say i agree with the others. Sounds like you've got a pretty good thing going with that pond so I'd try not to ruin it. Sucks he reacted the way he did though. No offese to anyone, but being older, he's probably pretty set in his ways. Probably been stomping pickerel since before us young whippersnappers were born. I'd say suggest that if he absolutely must kill every pickerel he try eating them instead but you said its 'catch and release' only. Then again, if your releasing them with a broken jaw, whats the point? I dunno man. I mean, you are on his home turf. Might be better to try and let it go and hope you don't have to see it again.

[roadwarrior]

Pickeral are not game fish around here. The few that are caught generally do not survive.

That goes for suckers, gar, carp and drum. Kentucky bass are a game fish, but if they are

legal length, they are kept. I don't want any of these fish in my ponds either.

[Loop_Dad]

This is tough one, but I think your buddy did the right thing by telling this guy that it was illegal to kill. I wouldn't mind sending a friendly letter to HOA merely pointing out what you witnessed that day, stressing the illegality of the action. I would word it in the way to show that you appreciate the privilege of fishing the pond and felt obligated to report this. You might make one enemy, but I wouldn't care.

[CoBass]

I'd leave it alone if I was you. You have access to a nice private lake and stirring the pot could get that access revoked. Next time, don't forget your pliers and don't let the old man near any of the fish you catch. Besides, can Fish and Game really do anything about it? I don't know how things work in NJ but where I live Fish and Game doesn't have jurisdiction over private waters.

[roadwarrior]

Forgive the pun, but I think Fish & Game have "bigger fish to fry!"

[Kenneth Lee Owen]

I'd leave it alone, some people just don't understand or care how nature works, or why laws and regulations are put into effects in lakes. We have a small little lake across the street from my house that I learned to fish in. Years ago it was awesome, full of perch and bass. I started fishing it again when I got into bass fishing seriously this past year and its completely dead. The fish don't just don't bite anymore. I found out its because the newer people around the lake as well as others who had access to lake, kept anything and everything they caught. Now I can't get a single fish to hit anything. Annoys me, but what can you do? Some people just don't care.

[flyfisher]

I would think since it is a private lake that game and fish would have no jurisdiction anyways. You did the right thing by trying to educate him so i would leave it at that.

And for the record, i hate pickerel when i am bass fishing but they sure do make the day better when the water is still cold but the air is warm and they are very active and the bass are still sleeping

[tomustang]

I know how bad pickerel can be an invasive species, they are swift predators who hide in the shadows and dart out like a torpedo for strikes. They destroy baits, if not take them away. In some scenarios pickerel are much more efficient than bass and that can decimate the population. I know many people who turn a blind eye to pickerel kills and I can understand why, I've done 10-to-1 pickerel/bass ratio days, lost dozens of baits, the level of frustration turns into population control. In the end it's their judgement call to do what they want, the repercussions (if any) are their own. Just so you know, a lot of people do not care about pickerel and do consider them invasive.

[SirSnookalot]

In Florida the FWC has no jurisdiction over private ponds, or is a license required to fish them. In most of the communities I have been to the number of people that fish are small in comparison to the number of residents that live there, HOA's seem to be more concerned with aesthetics. In my community the HOA has our ponds sprayed for weeds every couple of months, Palm Beach County and the LWDD do the same in the canals, this may retard the bite for a few days but there is no evidence of any fish kill. The state, I don't know what department handles this, stocks ponds in communities to create an ecological environment and aids in insect control. Both birds and animals are attracted, I saw a half eaten 20" or so bass yesterday, looked like an otter beat me out to the fish.

The real issue here is not education, but whether residents or the HOA really care, my guess is they don't. Making waves most likely will result in a negative impact, meaning you can't fish there anymore. Stomping on any fish isn't cool, if anything it's cruelty to animals which is a Humane Society or police issue, but I really think that's kind of streeeeeeetch.

[Hyrule Bass]

quit being so sensitive and let it go. theres nothing to be gained by telling on the old man. just enjoy your time there and remember your pliers next time....

[fishking247]

the guy is an ****hole in my opinion. unfortunately nothing you can do since it's private and you are taking the risk of losing your access to the pond.

my best piece of advice is don't forgwet your pliers again and keep to yourself

[Bluebasser86]

Did you actually even see the fish dead on the bank later? I've seen some fish with split jaws from getting off stringers and half or all of their lower jaw missing from who knows what and other than that seem to be doing fine. Not trying to back what he did but I'd just try to stay away from him and keep my mouth shut. I've got access to a few different private lakes and ponds and I do whatever I can to stay in good graces with the communities around them. A couple of them the people who live there ask for a few of the bass or catfish I catch, I hate keeping fish but to get access to great fishing with limited pressure I even clean the fish for them . I really doubt the HOA will care much about the fish and they're probably more likely to just pull the plug on guests being able to fish unless they're with a resident.

[Christian M]

quit being so sensitive and let it go. theres nothing to be gained by telling on the old man. just enjoy your time there and remember your pliers next time....

I didn't realize caring about the ecosystem was being overly sensitive. Also, Read the post, I didn't catch the fish, my friend did. I was on the other side of the pond when it happened & I had my pliers on me, I never fish without my pliers.

I did want to update you guys on the situation with the resident. I saw him last week after the hurricane and we spoke for a while about it. We got around to talking about the whole pickeril situation and I explained to him how New Jersey is promoting Chain Pickeril fishing and that they are a native species that can co-exist with bass just fine as long as there is enough forage. I also explained to him that most of the time pickeril are found in different areas of the lake as they prefer different conditions. I was able to come to an agreement with him, he said he would leave the big "breeders" alone, and take out anything under 8"-12". We agreed that this would not hurt the pickeril population so much, but would provide some population control. I know he's probably gonna keep stomping them out, but at least I was able to educate him on their importance to the eco-system. Maybe next time he'll think twice.

[HookSetDon]

the guy is an ****hole in my opinion. unfortunately nothing you can do since it's private and you are taking the risk of losing your access to the pond.

my best piece of advice is don't forgwet your pliers again and keep to yourself

I agree... what a pr**k.

[Traveler2586]

quit being so sensitive and let it go. theres nothing to be gained by telling on the old man. just enjoy your time there and remember your pliers next time....

X2

[Christian M]

Did you actually even see the fish dead on the bank later? I've seen some fish with split jaws from getting off stringers and half or all of their lower jaw missing from who knows what and other than that seem to be doing fine. Not trying to back what he did but I'd just try to stay away from him and keep my mouth shut. I've got access to a few different private lakes and ponds and I do whatever I can to stay in good graces with the communities around them. A couple of them the people who live there ask for a few of the bass or catfish I catch, I hate keeping fish but to get access to great fishing with limited pressure I even clean the fish for them . I really doubt the HOA will care much about the fish and they're probably more likely to just pull the plug on guests being able to fish unless they're with a resident.

I didn't stick around long enough to see the fish belly up. Although I don't think it would die from having its jaw broken right away. If it did die at all it would probably have taken weeks from not being able to feed, but hey I've caught fish with mangled faces from people doing the same thing the old man did. Chain Pickeril are extremely resilient so hopefully this one survived and won't have another run in with the old man!

[Christian M]

X2

Like I said, READ THE POST. My buddy caught the fish, I had my pliers on me, but I was on the other side of the pond. Listen, I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and IMHO, intentionally mangling and stomping any native fish for no good reason is just ignorant and cruel. I kill fish for food, not for sport. I tried to educate the old man, I didn't go snitching on him. I put the post up because I value the opinions of most of the site members and needed some intelligent input. Thank you to those of you who provided me with your educated opinions as it really helped me deal with this situation.

[J Francho]

I was able to come to an agreement with him, he said he would leave the big "breeders" alone, and take out anything under 8"-12". We agreed that this would not hurt the pickeril population so much, but would provide some population control.

Pickerel must at least 15" to be legally kept in New Jersey: http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2012/digfsh12-regs.pdf

You may not realize this, but larger esox, in this case pickerel over 20" or so, primarily subsist on smaller Esox. This is why when the larger fish are removed, there is an explosion in the population of smaller fish. Follow the rules governed by your DNR. There's a reason they are set in place.

[Christian M]

J Franco- This is exactly why I put the post up, I really appreciate this info! I was wrong and I will be sure to bring a print out of this info to the guy. Thanks again for the valuable information, I should have done the research before coming to any kind of agreement.

[SirSnookalot]

If it's a private community pond the rules and regulations set forth by the state may not apply. If the state does have jurisdiction and you are offended at a resident's practice on their property, call a game warden. IMO, protocol for a guest to "educate" a resident is walking on thin ice, but being a man of conviction, I'm sure not being allowed to fish there again would be worth it for standing up for your principals. A change in your fishing venue may please all that are concerned and avoid any other confrontation.

[Christian M]

If it's a private community pond the rules and regulations set forth by the state may not apply. If the state does have jurisdiction and you are offended at a resident's practice on their property, call a game warden. IMO, protocol for a guest to "educate" a resident is walking on thin ice, but being a man of conviction, I'm sure not being allowed to fish there again would be worth it for standing up for your principals. A change in your fishing venue may please all that are concerned and avoid any other confrontation.

I'm not sure who has jurisdiction over the water and the wildlife in it. From what I understand the state stocks the pond using property tax that the residents pay. At least that's how it works on every other private pond I've fished in New Jersey. There are NO TRESPASSING & NO FISHING signs posted, However, as of right now there is no reason at all for a change in venue. Actually the resident and I are very friendly. I see him almost every time I go fishing at that pond and he occasionally joins me. I not only educate him about the ecosystem, but I also show him my fishing techniques & tactics. I also try to be friendly with the other residents that I see walking, and I converse with the residents that stop and ask me how the bite is, and I carry a trash bag and pick up and garbage I find. Whatever it takes to stay on the good graces of the residents.

This was an isolated incident, and as I stated in my initial post, I didn't catch the fish or say anything to the man when he mangled the Pickerel. My buddy was the one who caught the fish and expressed his disapproval of the mans actions.