Straight Braid And Knot Strength

[fishking247]

After reading and posting in the "braid and knots for topwater baits" thread i thought this would be a good discussion.

rockchalk06 posted an interesting reply in regards to my statement. i stated i fish straight braid all the time from 10-30lb test power pro and use the palomar knot to connect all my baits. my line has always snapped right at the knot or a few inches above it.

rockchalk06 responded stating that the line does not always break at the knot and how sometimes the knot can be stronger then your line.

i have tested 10,15, 20, and 30lb braids. i tied a heavy duty hook (so hook would not bend) on the end of my braided lines with a palomar knot. i attached the hooks to a wooden bench as if i was snagged on a log, rock, laydown, etc. i let out some line and walked straight back about the average length of a cast and would palm the spool and pull straight back. the line always broke right at or a few inches above the knot with 10, 15, 20, and 30lb power pro.

i know a big reason many guys use leaders on their braid is so they can break off easily and not lose any braid. i have never lost more then a few inches of braid when breaking off unless i wrap the line around the spool or handle of the reel which IMO creates a weak link in the line and i almost always lose a casting distance worth of line

my question is how could a knot possibly be stronger then the main line? please disregard the use of leaders in your posts. this is about attaching a main line to lure/hook.

looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this subject

[islandbass]

this is my take and best guess... during the process of tying the palomar knot or really any knot we really need to be mindful when we "seal the deal" .

what i have noticed, especially when tying the palomar knot when a bigger loop is involved, if the knot is tightened down poorly or incorrectly in such a way that the knot is practically formed above the eye of the hook and is finally cinched down toward the eye, the small amount of line between the eye and the knot gets damaged, and many times unkowingly unless you actually feel the line immediately above the eye after you have completed the knot. it will feel slightly worn.

I saw a video in which a guy closed up the gap in the loop by pulling on the tag or standing end before cinching down to ensure that what I described doesnt happen. I think I watched it on this forum and it was simply practical and ingenius.

ever since i watched that video, i have never made a bad palomar knot.

it is my best guess as to why a palomar knot would ever break above the knot. something, either angler or cover, and in my case it was me most of the time, is very likely to have caused the damage, assuming the line was in great condition beforehand.

[fishking247]

i tie the knot the exact way you described island bass. i just don't understand how guys break off braid they lose 20' every time.

[Busy]

No matter how well you tie your knot I should think that you would want your break off to be at the knot. It would be disconcerting to me if my line broke somewhere other than at the knot on a hang-up. I would probably peel line or re-spool at that point because then I wouldn't trust my line.

Never lost much braid on a hang-up but I fish with 20 # braid, easy enough to break. If I used 65# I would probably cut it off and lose a lot more.

If your line is breaking somewhere other than at the knot, your line was probably damaged.

[fishking247]

No matter how well you tie your knot I should think that you would want your break off to be at the knot. It would be disconcerting to me if my line broke somewhere other than at the knot on a hang-up. I would probably peel line or re-spool at that point because then I wouldn't trust my line.

Never lost much braid on a hang-up but I fish with 20 # braid, easy enough to break. If I used 65# I would probably cut it off and lose a lot more.

If your line is breaking somewhere other than at the knot, your line was probably damaged.

exactly what my thoughts are. every time i read a straight braid vs braid with leader thread there is at least one or two people who state they use a leader because when they break off with straight braid they "lose too much braid"

[Dwight Hottle]

I think most braid is damaged from casting & the proverbial bird nest. Guys that use braid for trolling hardly ever have any problem with breakage and they reuse the same braid season after season without renewal.