Penn State Penalty

[Traveler2586]

Under the NCAA guidelines, if a brain surgeon molested a patient, would the hospital, staff, and other surgeons be penalized and have their futures jeopardized, and have to undo previously successful surgeries. I am at odds with myself on the NCAA approach to this problem; it's clear they want to send a strong message to everyone, but they are striking innocent bystanders while swinging their whip.

Maybe a public lynching on the stadium goal posts of all involved in the cover up would be a better message to send.

[K_Mac]

Traveler in your analogy if the hospital, staff, and other surgeons knew of the abuse, you better believe they would be held accountable. There would be innocent hospital employees hurt when it hit the fan, but being employed by a corrupt institution has consequences-deserved or not. The "previous successful surgeries" have no relevance here.

If there ever was a crime that deserved public hanging, this is it. Do it a half time of the opening home game. Your wink says you're kidding. I'm not.

[NorcalBassin]

Under the NCAA guidelines, if a brain surgeon molested a patient, would the hospital, staff, and other surgeons be penalized and have their futures jeopardized, and have to undo previously successful surgeries.

You evidently are not familiar with JCAHO. Hospitals get more nervous when they're doing an investigation than a university does when the NCAA comes around. JCAHO is often referred to as "Just Closed Another HOspital" and would likely shut down a hospital that continually covered up molestations from a surgeon over the course of many years. This does happen (closed hospitals, losing accreditation, etc). It would be along the lines of closing Penn State University as opposed to a slap on the wrist to the football program. Once again, they got off easy.

[Traveler2586]

Traveler in your analogy if the hospital, staff, and other surgeons knew of the abuse, you better believe they would be held accountable. There would be innocent hospital employees hurt when it hit the fan, but being employed by a corrupt institution has consequences-deserved or not. The "previous successful surgeries" have no relevance here.

If there ever was a crime that deserved public hanging, this is it. Do it a half time of the opening home game. Your wink says you're kidding. I'm not.

No the wink is just sarcasm because this country no longer has the guts to do something like that.

[Traveler2586]

You evidently are not familiar with JCAHO. Hospitals get more nervous when they're doing an investigation than a university does when the NCAA comes around. JCAHO is often referred to as "Just Closed Another HOspital" and would likely shut down a hospital that continually covered up molestations from a surgeon over the course of many years. This does happen (closed hospitals, losing accreditation, etc). It would be along the lines of closing Penn State University as opposed to a slap on the wrist to the football program. Once again, they got off easy.

Yes, I'm very familiar with The Joint Commission (TJC), formerly the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO) My wife was a unit secretary at our local hospital for many years, and I know they are the fastest way to stress out hospital administrator's there is. I did not know they changed their name to TJC until tonight when I looked up the full name.

[Bassn Blvd]

I read the Pa statute governing the reporting of child sex/abuse. Shockingly, it appears JoeP was only obligated by law to report the incident to his superiors, and not to law enforcement. The superiors are then obligated by law to contact law enforcement. Talking about "passing the buck."

More than 40 states require the allegations to be made directly to law enforcement or child services. In these states, merely telling your superior is not good enough. Hopefully, Pa will pass legislature to require certain people to report abuse directly to law enforcement/child services and not be able to "pass the buck" by only telling their superiors.

[NorcalBassin]

Please forgive my assumption. I had the misonception that you did not realize that a hospital would actually be punished much more harshly than Penn State was in your example. However, the successful surgeries would have to be imagined failed just as the wins have to be imagined as actual losses. That penalty is a joke IMO.

[RobbyZ5001]

I wonder if the deadly shooting in CO will be talked about as long as what happened at Penn State? I think many have looked at PSU as a place that had great traditions, a well respected school, and overall a very desired appeal. I think that is a large part of the media firestorm and being the talk of the nation. I can't help to think that there is a separate agenda by many being backed by the acts that had happened. My opinion is that the NCAA was out of line.

[preach4bass]

My opinion is that the NCAA was out of line.

My opinion is that Penn State was out of line. They covered up the acts of a pedifile so their football program wouldn't look bad. Maybe that's alright in Pennsylvania, but in the rest of the country, THAT IS OUT OF LINE.

[RobbyZ5001]

My opinion is that Penn State was out of line. They covered up the acts of a pedifile so their football program wouldn't look bad. Maybe that's alright in Pennsylvania, but in the rest of the country, THAT IS OUT OF LINE.

Is it Penn State or select individuals? So now you go from the school to Pennsylvania with the insults? Very interesting. I understand you have strong feelings as do we all, but try not to act like a bigot.

[preach4bass]

Well, it seems that you are quicker to defend Penn State than its administrators were to defend the children that were being molested. But, I'll bite: What do you think the NCAA should have done?

[RobbyZ5001]

Well, it seems that you are quicker to defend Penn State than its administrators were to defend the children that were being molested. But, I'll bite: What do you think the NCAA should have done?

The only punishment that is beneficial in anyway is the money going to charity. The punishments don't solve any problems or prevent anything. I look at it more as a criminal case, not a NCAA matter. I don't think Penn State should just sit there and be a punching bag either. It makes them look even worse. As a result of just being a punching bag; organizations such as the NCAA take a whack without purpose.

[preach4bass]

The other punishments (especially dethroning Joe Pa of having the most victories) certainly sends a message. Other universities, that might be tempted to sweep something like this under the rug, will think twice. This strong statement was made to help protect innocent children.

[RobbyZ5001]

The other punishments (especially dethroning Joe Pa of having the most victories) certainly sends a message. Other universities, that might be tempted to sweep something like this under the rug, will think twice. This strong statement was made to help protect innocent children.

That is very wishful thinking. It would be nice for something good to come out of this debacle. I think it all has been handled very poorly. I blame a lot on the media.

[Traveler2586]

My opinion is that Penn State was out of line. They covered up the acts of a pedifile so their football program wouldn't look bad. Maybe that's alright in Pennsylvania, but in the rest of the country, THAT IS OUT OF LINE.

Have you ever taken a close look at a map of PA, they have towns with names that I can't type here without getting blasted by Long Mike.

[Lund Explorer]

The only punishment that is beneficial in anyway is the money going to charity. The punishments don't solve any problems or prevent anything. I look at it more as a criminal case, not a NCAA matter. I don't think Penn State should just sit there and be a punching bag either. It makes them look even worse. As a result of just being a punching bag; organizations such as the NCAA take a whack without purpose.

I look at it more as a criminal case, not a NCAA matter.

Criminal, Civil, and NCAA. It's going to turn out to be a crminal case that's already led to a conviction. A whole slew of civil cases as the victims will be suing the university in light of the various findings. Finally, it is an NCAA matter, in that the organization expects it's members maintain a certain level of standards, and PSU clearly did not maintain that level.

I don't think Penn State should just sit there and be a punching bag either.

If PSU is anymore a punching bag than Ohio State, U of M, or any of the schools in other leagues that have broken the rules and been caught at it have been, there is one dubious distinction that's rather hard to ignore. It's obvious that Penn State's biggest problem WAS that it just sat there.

In my honest opinion, everytime a school gets caught breaking the rules, college sports loses more fans. PSU's case just gave it just a bigger shove to the point that these programs are no longer the profit centers they currently are. Who knows if the NCAA (or any of their member schools) can stop this slide towards extinction. I sure don't see any effort on the member's part.

[rockchalk06]

I think what people are missing is the position Coach Paterno had. I say Coach for a reason. Reguardless of PA law about reporting felonies, a coach is one held to higher standards. PSU is throwing him under the buss and trying to take the blame off of themselves. "Coach Paterno should have done more" etc is their gripe. The whole d**n university is to blame. Coach should have done more. By taking his statue and wins away, all PSU is saying is Coach Paterno is the guilty one. Not sandusky or the university.

No one trolls around a college for boys and doesn't get noticed. Everyone knew including the administration. My question is how long and what else got covered up.

No amount of penility will make this go away or lie down. As much as I hate to say it, a college is an institutation of higher learning. Punish the program not the students. I say 10 year explusion of the football program.

[Bassn Blvd]

Is it Penn State or select individuals? So now you go from the school to Pennsylvania with the insults? Very interesting. I understand you have strong feelings as do we all, but try not to act like a bigot.

JoeP WAS Penn State. Maybe just the coach on paper, but in reality he was THE school. If he was still alive and coaching at Penn, it would be a cold day in HE** before I'd let my kid go there. I don't care if he had a full athletic scholorship or free tuition. The men who coulda put a stop to the tragedy a LONG time ago did absolutely NOTHING.

[Bankbeater]

Penn State had a responsibility to protect the students that went there, and they failed to do that. Not only did they fail, but it appears that once they found out about Sandusky they attempted to cover it up to keep the $$$$ coming in. Penn State's penalty was not enough.

[GLADES]

I agree with Bassin. No way I would ever send my kids there. Penn State's reputation has been ruined.

They allowed a pedophile to assault kids and even gave him a place to commit the crimes for over 10 years.

I believe the penalties should have been limited to Sandusky, the university administration, coaching faculty, and monetary penalties. Removing the scholarships just hurt the kids going forward. Why should they be punished? I am also not sure stripping the wins was appropriate, the players worked hard for those wins, yet Joe P gets to keep his coach of the year and other awards.

It will take 20 years for the public to forget what happened at that school. I hope Sandusky get the Maximum penalty and plenty of years confined with other molesters, and those involved in a cover up in the administration get criminal charges.

[jwhowells]

A couple of things. Sandusky had been doing this since at least the late 70s, I will not believe that there weren't rumors around that he liked young boys, there had to have been. Joe P and his superiors took it into their own hands and decided that letting a molester free was more important than Penn state football. Joe P denied knowing about the molestations up to 8 days before he died, in an interview he gave where he denied any and all knowledge, yet there are emails from him which he plainly admits to knowing what's going on and how to proceed with the situation, from 12 ears ago. If Joe P could turn the other cheek for this, what else has gone on under his watch? What else did he overlook to not hurt Penn football? As far as I'm concerned, Joe is in hell watching, and Sandusky and a couple others will soon join him, scumbags. I feel sorry for the young men at penn now, expecting to play football for a big time program, and now they are sunk, and most of all for the men Sandusky and the others tossed aside for the sake of the program.

I understand your disqust for what happened and I'm not trying to pick a fight but I think PSU football and Joe P are the scapegoat in this situation. There are definately no emails from Joe P that you talk about even though the media will try and make you beleive there is. Also Sandusky was vetted by numerous child welfare agencies when adopting children and in association with The Second Mile and he fooled them all so I think it can be resonable that he fooled a football coach. I have no doubt that Paterno could have done more, maybe knew more but as of now there really are no facts about what Joe knew of tried to cover up. I would love for all the facts to come out. Not so much to exonerate anyone but to make sure everyone that was involved has pays for their role.

[jwhowells]

I read the Pa statute governing the reporting of child sex/abuse. Shockingly, it appears JoeP was only obligated by law to report the incident to his superiors, and not to law enforcement. The superiors are then obligated by law to contact law enforcement. Talking about "passing the buck."

More than 40 states require the allegations to be made directly to law enforcement or child services. In these states, merely telling your superior is not good enough. Hopefully, Pa will pass legislature to require certain people to report abuse directly to law enforcement/child services and not be able to "pass the buck" by only telling their superiors.

Its hard to beleive that its not the law to report directly to the police. Unfortunately in this case it was reported Gary Schultz who oversaw the police department.

[jwhowells]

Here is a great espn article that shows this scandal goes farther than the PSU Football team.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7770996/in-wake-joe-paterno-death-sandusky-sex-abuse-scandal-power-struggle-spread-penn-state-state-capital

[deaknh03]

Why was Sandusky fired? Why did no other team hire him? He was THE BEST defensive coordinator at the time, something tells me paterno, when asked, didnt give a glowing recemmendation. The emails are mentioned in the mitchell type report that was done. Regardless of if the emails exist, I will never believe that at the least paterno knew something unsavory was happening.

[jwhowells]

Why was Sandusky fired? Why did no other team hire him? He was THE BEST defensive coordinator at the time, something tells me paterno, when asked, didnt give a glowing recemmendation. The emails are mentioned in the mitchell type report that was done. Regardless of if the emails exist, I will never believe that at the least paterno knew something unsavory was happening.

Sandusky retired after Joe said he wouldn't be the next head football coach. Paterno said he wouldn't be the next coach because Sandusky was to busy with the Second Mile. The Freeh report shows that all this happened before any of Sandusky incidents and states that the retirement had nothing to do with the incident. Did Joe know about something already? None of us know.

Now there were two emails the Freeh report mentions that possibly pertain to Joe and only one mentions him by name. The first was an email with the subject Sandusky from the AD to the VP saying coach wants an update. Freeh assumes "coach" is Paterno but PSU insiders state Sandusky was always referred to as "Coach." Also the incident was fully investigated by the Police and no charges were filed.

The second email is a little more damning and its about the 2001 incident. Basically the AD states that after talking with Joe he just wants to have a talk with Sandusky about not bringing kids around and getting him couciling and also to inform the Second Mile of the incident.

The second email in my opinion makes Joe a part of situation but I think its far from solid proof that he was a part of the cover up since we don't even know if the AD really spoke with Joe. We know the Second Mile was informed and they did nothing. If joe wanted to cover this up why tell and outside agency like the Second Mile? Basically I feel that Joe, guilty or not is taking the fall and we will never get all the facts of how far this went.