(='_'=) Posted June 30, 2012 Posted June 30, 2012 hey!! about a month ago we removed the motor of our boat to paint it... today i am reconnecting everything again... but i am having a problem... when we removed it, i was in charge of the mechanical, and my friend, of the electrical part.. but now im alone, so i have to connect everything... the mechinical is all done, and half the electrical... the bilge pump works, livewell pump as well, and the electric choke and fuel pump also.... however, the starter is not working.... i disconnected the spark plugs, and tried turning the key, but the starter wont turn... so, there are 3 cables that go in the motor, these 2, and another one with a male/female plug which is already connected.... my question is, where should i connect these two?? and if they are properly connected, where is the problem? maybe in the ignition??? Quote
(='_'=) Posted June 30, 2012 Author Posted June 30, 2012 the 2 wires missing are the black one in my hand and the white one behind, with a plastic cover... both of them have eyes, so they must be connected to bolts.... Quote
Gotfishyfingers? Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 That one picture isn't helping. Take a few more pics, maybe I can help. Quote
Broke bass fisherman Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 That one picture isn't helping. Take a few more pics, maybe I can help. X2 Quote
Traveler2586 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Have you got a voltage tester of any kind? a light-bulb and two wires can work. you'll need to check for power and ground at the starter and solenoid. The heavy black wire (-12 V) is usually the engine ground, the heavy red wire (+12 V) should find it's way to the solenoid. the white wire I can't say. You can try searching the web for a wiring diagram for you motor, search on year, make, model. If you have battery and ground connected to the motor correctly you can take a ground wire jumper to the solenoid's small terminals to activate the solenoid. There should be a -12 V wire (black heavy), +12 V wire (red heavy), start wire (small), run wire (small). Look at your electrical connection points carefully, terminals that have had wires removed may show evidence of tool marks. That's the best I can do for you with the lack of specific engine information. Quote
(='_'=) Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 thanx!! i will take better pics today... yes, i have a multimeter... the white wire shown on the pic, is actually red, it only has a white cover at the end... since the red cannot be seenon the pic, i said it was white because thats what can be seen... that wire i connected to the solenoid of the lower big bolt.... and the black wire i connected to a bolt on the motor, which looks clean so i assumed something must be there, as the rest of the bolts look like they have not been moved.... the ignition switch has several wires, i will also take a pic of those, since some of those are not hooked to anything.... for painting we just removed the ignition switch but i believe the wires came loose with the movement, since we didnt do that on purpose i dont know where they should be hooked... Quote
Super User Fishing Rhino Posted July 3, 2012 Super User Posted July 3, 2012 The key switch, when turned to the start position sends power to the solenoid. You should have two heavy wires at the solenoid. It looks like you have a red wire that goes from the solenoid to the starter. There should be another heavy wire connected to the solenoid from the battery. When you turn the key, the solenoid is activated and closes the circuit from the battery to the starter, which activates the starter. You said the starter doesn't spin. You should hear the solenoid clicking when you turn the key. If you do not hear the solenoid clicking, then it is not getting power from the switch, or it is defective. You can test the starter easily. Leave your plugs disconnected and use jumper cables. Make sure the starter is grounded with one cable. Then, using the other jumper cable clip one end to the cable connecting the starter to the solenoid, at the solenoid, then touch it to the positive terminal on the battery. If the starter works, the problem is in the switch/solenoid circuit. I believe you said you have a tester. Make sure you have power to the key switch. Then have someone hold the key in the start position. You should have two live connectors at the switch, one for the ignition, the other to activate the starter. With the switch in the on position, you should have one live connector, which would go to the ignition. The only bugaboo is if there is a connector for accessories on the switch, then you'll have two hot connectors and a third when the key is turned to start. On my boat there is a separate toggle switch for accessories. Other boats may be different. Quote
Super User Fishing Rhino Posted July 3, 2012 Super User Posted July 3, 2012 I was just looking at your photo again. I only see one power cable at the solenoid, and it's the cable between the solenoid and the starter. One of those two disconnected cables goes to the solenoid and the other should go to a grounding bolt. You'll need to determine which is the positive cable and which is the negative/ground cable. The positive cable should go to the solenoid. Quote
(='_'=) Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 thats right Tom, here is how i connected them... the red (white) cable goes to the solenoid´s bolt, and the black one to that bolt directly to the motor... however, it didnt work... if i put the red (white) one directly to the starter, it will work, so the starter is working..... i think ill have to take pics of the ignition switch, i am almost fully convinced the problem is there and not on the motor side of the cables.... Quote
Super User Fishing Rhino Posted July 3, 2012 Super User Posted July 3, 2012 Did you try a jumper to the solenoid? You have two smaller wires to the solenoid. One should be a ground (negative), the other positive. Try jumping to the small positive wire. If that makes the starter turn, or the solenoid click, then your problem is between the solenoid and the power source at the switch. You'll need to find out which terminal on the switch is live only when the key is turned to the start position. That will be the terminal for the solenoid wire. Quote
(='_'=) Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 thanx, ill try that!! exactly how do you jump it?? touch it with the live (red) wire of the battery?? and, the switch is labeled, and one of the loose cables reads "ign" i believe... i think that one is the one that is live when the key is on the Starting position, but ill have to check.... Quote
Super User Fishing Rhino Posted July 3, 2012 Super User Posted July 3, 2012 thanx, ill try that!! exactly how do you jump it?? touch it with the live (red) wire of the battery?? Yes. and, the switch is labeled, and one of the loose cables reads "ign" i believe... i think that one is the one that is live when the key is on the Starting position, but ill have to check....IGN is ignition. That should be live when the key is in the run position. There should be another connector on the switch for the starter. That should only be live when the key is held in the start position. Quote
(='_'=) Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 IGN is ignition. That should be live when the key is in the run position. There should be another connector on the switch for the starter. That should only be live when the key is held in the start position. so IGN should always be live as long as the key is "open"? and that wire feeds what?? because right now the wire is not hooked to anything.... what im tinking is that it should be hooked to something outside the harness?? yesterday i couldnt take pics, hopefully today i will.... Quote
Super User Fishing Rhino Posted July 4, 2012 Super User Posted July 4, 2012 so IGN should always be live as long as the key is "open"? and that wire feeds what?? because right now the wire is not hooked to anything.... what im tinking is that it should be hooked to something outside the harness?? yesterday i couldnt take pics, hopefully today i will.... That wire feeds the ignition system, which fires the spark plugs. That's why the engine stops when you turn the key "off". There must be a wire beneath the console which comes from the engine's wiring harness. I'm old school. I remember tinkering with my cars when the ignition system consited of a coil, condenser, points and a distributor. Todays electronic ignitions have coil packs and many fire the appropriate spark plugs with a "crank trigger". There are sensors on the flywheel which tell each coil pack when to fire. As to the innards and components, it's beyond me. There should be some type of terminal block beneath the cowl. The wiring harness should hook up to them, and from the terminal block, the wires lead to the appropriate electrical units. It may be a plug connection vs a terminal block. The last time I fiddled with outboard wiring was forty plus years ago. My outboard had a terminal block. I had to get a schematic to make the proper connections. In either case, plug or block, there should be a wire at the end of the harness away from the engine, to activate the ignition. The individual wires should be color coded for each connection. But, you'll need a schematic to know which is which. Quote
(='_'=) Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 d**n.... supposedly my friend labeled the wires when he disconnected them, but the labes are gone now.... and i cant find the schematic or diagram anywhere.... i guess i will try to make it work one more time, then ill wait for my friend to see if he remembers, and the third option will be to take it to an electric shop.... Quote
Traveler2586 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 d**n.... supposedly my friend labeled the wires when he disconnected them, but the labels are gone now.... and i cant find the schematic or diagram anywhere.... i guess i will try to make it work one more time, then ill wait for my friend to see if he remembers, and the third option will be to take it to an electric shop.... Have you tried searching the web for a diagram of your motor type. Take some good clear pic's of the Ignition Switch "IS" and connecting wires, and, pic's of the wires at the motor. Tell us how many positions the "IS" has and what the switch terminals are marked, ie. BATT, ACC, RUN, ST. You may only have BATT, RUN, ST. From what I can see in the pic's you have, there is a Brown wire on the solenoid which should go to the start "ST" terminal of the ignition switch. "IS". You should have a red wire (+12 V) that goes from the main battery +12 V to a terminal on the "IS" that may be marked "BATT" These two wires when crossed should run the starter, if they're connected to the "IS" properly the starter will run only when the key on the "IS" is turned to the start position, and only then. Then you'll need to identify the "RUN" wire which should find it's way from the "IS" to the Distributer Circuit, it supplies +12 V (BATT) to the ignition system when the "IS" is in the Run position. It may go to the Distributer Points,, or one side of the high voltage coil. The better the pic's the better we can help you. Quote
Traveler2586 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 BTW, I'm thinking this is an older motor with out a computer system?????? If it has a computer then you must find a factory wiring diagram. Also, does your boat have a kill switch?? If it does it's wired in series with the RUN circuit, if it doesn't... GET ONE !! Looking back at your pic in post #10. It looks like the bolt on the upper left of the starter has a Star washer on it, this is where the -12V heavy black wire from the main battery should connect. Star washers are used with electrical connections. Aw hell, give me the make, model, year, SN of your motor in a PM and I'll see what I can find for you. Add the same info on the boat if you can. Quote
(='_'=) Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 hey!! sorry i hadnt been able to answer sooner, i was busy with other personal issues , which are solved now so i can continue the restoration.... anyways, in some spare time i have been making more progress, but until yesterday i was able to take some pics... here is the switch. it has 4 bolts, but only 3 are used... i believe the one with the red wire says BAT, the one with the green wire says IGN, the empty one says ACC, and the one in the middle i dont remember what it says, maybe Start, since i assumed, and later verified with a multimeter, this wire only has power when i turn the key to crank... now, in this picture there are 2 yellow wires marked with a red circle.... one of them is the one seen on the upper picture, the one on the switch.. the other one goes to the harness... with the multimeter, we managed to know that this other yellow wire is the one that feeds the starter... so, if i hook the two yellow wires together and turn the key, the starter will receive power... however, the 2 yellow wires have female connectors, so im not sure they were hooked directly... i think i can replace one of the connectors with a male, and match them, as i already know this will work.... however im not sure if im missing something.... and Traveler, the info i got from the plate on the motor reads: Model 85ETLR77S Serial number J4763396 the boat is a Kingfisher, i am assuming the motor and boat are from the same year, 1977 i get from the model number.... and no, my boat does not has a kill switch... what is the purpose of that?? unless it is someting very specialized, i think i can get something to work with what materials i can find locally.... thanx!!! Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted July 18, 2012 Super User Posted July 18, 2012 Well This should be a lot of fun LOL !! While Traveler is looking so will I, between the two of us we should be able to give you something that can help...I hope. Quote
(='_'=) Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 i just checked what a kill switch is, is the one that will stop the boat if you fall, right?? i didnt know they were used on bassboat, i had only seen them on jetskis... ill look for one and install it inline with the red wire, the one that feeds the switch, is that right?? and thanx Nitro!! i have been searching but couldnt find anything that i could use.... i found diagrams for some other boats, and i tried to use that info with some luck, but i still am not sure what am i missing.... Quote
Traveler2586 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 hey!! sorry i hadnt been able to answer sooner, i was busy with other personal issues , which are solved now so i can continue the restoration.... anyways, in some spare time i have been making more progress, but until yesterday i was able to take some pics... here is the switch. it has 4 bolts, but only 3 are used... i believe the one with the red wire says BAT, the one with the green wire says IGN, the empty one says ACC, and the one in the middle i dont remember what it says, maybe Start, since i assumed, and later verified with a multimeter, this wire only has power when i turn the key to crank... now, in this picture there are 2 yellow wires marked with a red circle.... one of them is the one seen on the upper picture, the one on the switch.. the other one goes to the harness... with the multimeter, we managed to know that this other yellow wire is the one that feeds the starter... so, if i hook the two yellow wires together and turn the key, the starter will receive power... however, the 2 yellow wires have female connectors, so im not sure they were hooked directly... i think i can replace one of the connectors with a male, and match them, as i already know this will work.... however im not sure if im missing something.... and Traveler, the info i got from the plate on the motor reads: Model 85ETLR77S Serial number J4763396 the boat is a Kingfisher, i am assuming the motor and boat are from the same year, 1977 i get from the model number.... What's the info on the engine? Manufacture: HP: SN: Quote
Traveler2586 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 i just checked what a kill switch is, is the one that will stop the boat if you fall, right?? YES - you should get one. i didn't know they were used on bass boat, i had only seen them on jetskis... If you cross a wake wrong while water skying you could bounce out of the boat. ill look for one and install it in-line with the red wire, the one that feeds the switch, is that right?? NO - install it in series with the IGN circuit on the green wire which should go to the distributer, that way it will only kill the engine and not your ACC circuit to your electronics. It's good to see you've never hot-wired a car Quote
(='_'=) Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 What's the info on the engine? Manufacture: HP: SN: this is the info on the data plate i found on the motor: Model: 85ETLR77S Serial number: J4763396 its an 85HP Johnson... based on that info, i saw somewhere that it was 85HP (first 2 numbers of Model) and from 1977 (last 2 numbers)... i think the S is for Short shaft or something like that i remember reading once... the rest of the letters, i dont remember... and no, i have not wired a car yet hahaha... and OK, ill look for one and wire to the IGN... Quote
Traveler2586 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 this is the info on the data plate i found on the motor: Model: 85ETLR77S Serial number: J4763396 its an 85HP Johnson... based on that info, i saw somewhere that it was 85HP (first 2 numbers of Model) and from 1977 (last 2 numbers)... i think the S is for Short shaft or something like that i remember reading once... the rest of the letters, i don't remember... and no, i have not wired a car yet hahaha... and OK, ill look for one and wire to the IGN... OK, I'm looking for a wiring diagram; but so far all I'm getting is dead ends, they want you to buy their manuals, or the web site is a sucker trap. I'll also look for other years on either side of your's. Question: did you remove the wiring harness completely at both ends? And,, does/did it go into the throttle control? The two yellow wires could go to the neutral cut-out switch on the throttle control to prevent starting the engine while it's in gear. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.