JamesD Posted June 27, 2012 Author Posted June 27, 2012 When I was younger, I believed that too...because the gun-related media constantly tells you that you need to be carrying a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP in a Milt Sparks or Mitch Rosen holster if you want to survive an encounter with Mr. Badguy. No offense, but as you get older you'll find yourself reevaluating your carry gun and caliber, and you'll figure out that what the majority of gun-related media tells you that you need isn't necessarily what will work best for you. I hate this 'debate' (this is not an argument, yet). I really do. Although, I feel I now need to present the facts. In my opinion, no caliber is superior to any other. They all a up's and down's. As an army veteran, I can guarantee you I would rather tote around my 240Bravo any day over an M249. Fire rate be damned. The .308 is far superior to the .223 on the battle field, ballistically speaking. But that's at a stand point of penetration and kinetic energy at range. The debate is simple. A .45 Auto is often sub sonic out of the muzzle, especially from a shorter barreled weapon like my XD or a Glock 30. The advantage here is lessening collateral damage. When I chose the caliber I did, it wasn't because it was bigger than any other, or because it was synonymous with 'lore'... It was because it's a sub sonic round, carrying with it over 600 ft/lb of kinetic energy at 25 yards, but less than 900fps. To me, this is important. In the event of an actual defensive situation, You HOPE all of your rounds land on-target. In the event that a round passes through a small patch of fatty flesh, the velocity carried by the round after passing through is drastically decreased. Should be be in a home, and a round be discharged through your target at close-range, the round will then stop in the wall of your home. I rest easier knowing that should I ever have to discharge my weapon in my suburban neighborhood my neighbors and their children are not at risk to become 'collateral damage'. There is no 'fire superiority' here... just logic. I'd rather not kill anyone other than the intended target, and I believe I'm a step closer to preventing that by using a sub-sonic caliber. Thanks for you opinion though. 1 Quote
Super User clayton86 Posted June 27, 2012 Super User Posted June 27, 2012 I hate this 'debate' (this is not an argument, yet). I really do. Although, I feel I now need to present the facts. In my opinion, no caliber is superior to any other. They all a up's and down's. As an army veteran, I can guarantee you I would rather tote around my 240Bravo any day over an M249. Fire rate be damned. The .308 is far superior to the .223 on the battle field, ballistically speaking. But that's at a stand point of penetration and kinetic energy at range. The debate is simple. A .45 Auto is often sub sonic out of the muzzle, especially from a shorter barreled weapon like my XD or a Glock 30. The advantage here is lessening collateral damage. When I chose the caliber I did, it wasn't because it was bigger than any other, or because it was synonymous with 'lore'... It was because it's a sub sonic round, carrying with it over 600 ft/lb of kinetic energy at 25 yards, but less than 900fps. To me, this is important. In the event of an actual defensive situation, You HOPE all of your rounds land on-target. In the event that a round passes through a small patch of fatty flesh, the velocity carried by the round after passing through is drastically decreased. Should be be in a home, and a round be discharged through your target at close-range, the round will then stop in the wall of your home. I rest easier knowing that should I ever have to discharge my weapon in my suburban neighborhood my neighbors and their children are not at risk to become 'collateral damage'. There is no 'fire superiority' here... just logic. I'd rather not kill anyone other than the intended target, and I believe I'm a step closer to preventing that by using a sub-sonic caliber. Thanks for you opinion though. hell yes I miss being a 240 gunner when they get barking its soooooooooo nice I hate seeing/hearing some of these new guys they got on that system that don't know how to hold down the trigger. Plus that 240 is a tack driver you gotta see the new 240L same thing just built out of an alloy its I think 3 lbs lighter better trigger system we just got them a few months ago. Quote
JamesD Posted June 27, 2012 Author Posted June 27, 2012 Sounds like a nice piece of equipment, Clayton, I'll have to look into it. Quote
Stasher1 Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 I hate this 'debate' (this is not an argument, yet). I really do. Although, I feel I now need to present the facts. In my opinion, no caliber is superior to any other. They all a up's and down's. As an army veteran, I can guarantee you I would rather tote around my 240Bravo any day over an M249. Fire rate be damned. The .308 is far superior to the .223 on the battle field, ballistically speaking. But that's at a stand point of penetration and kinetic energy at range. The debate is simple. A .45 Auto is often sub sonic out of the muzzle, especially from a shorter barreled weapon like my XD or a Glock 30. The advantage here is lessening collateral damage. When I chose the caliber I did, it wasn't because it was bigger than any other, or because it was synonymous with 'lore'... It was because it's a sub sonic round, carrying with it over 600 ft/lb of kinetic energy at 25 yards, but less than 900fps. To me, this is important. In the event of an actual defensive situation, You HOPE all of your rounds land on-target. In the event that a round passes through a small patch of fatty flesh, the velocity carried by the round after passing through is drastically decreased. Should be be in a home, and a round be discharged through your target at close-range, the round will then stop in the wall of your home. I rest easier knowing that should I ever have to discharge my weapon in my suburban neighborhood my neighbors and their children are not at risk to become 'collateral damage'. There is no 'fire superiority' here... just logic. I'd rather not kill anyone other than the intended target, and I believe I'm a step closer to preventing that by using a sub-sonic caliber. Thanks for you opinion though. No argument, just a discussion. From the looks of it, you have well thought out and articulable reasons for your choices, and I can respect that. That's typically not the case when the .45/.40 vs 9mm discussions pop up. I erroneously assumed you were one of "those people", if you know what I mean, and for that I apologize. Quote
JamesD Posted June 28, 2012 Author Posted June 28, 2012 No argument, just a discussion. From the looks of it, you have well thought out and articulable reasons for your choices, and I can respect that. That's typically not the case when the .45/.40 vs 9mm discussions pop up. I erroneously assumed you were one of "those people", if you know what I mean, and for that I apologize. Not a problem. I've been condemned for far less... Hah! I will admit I know far more about ballistics and firearms than fishing.... Both are self taught, one just started nearly 20 years sooner than the other. Also, 180 + grain .40 s&w are sub sonic, incase you were curious. It's difficult to find sub sonic 9mm off the shelf. It's around, but most of it a specialty market. Oh, and while I'm at it... .357 Sig or now called '.357 Auto' is far too fast/potent to be used as a self defense round. The only government agency I know of who uses it is the Mississippi Highway Patrol and I still don't understand why if you apply my earlier statement about collateral damage to terminal ballistics and velocity... Quote
38 Super Fan Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 I never liked to get caught up in ballistics, shot placement is far and away more critical. Quote
JamesD Posted June 28, 2012 Author Posted June 28, 2012 I have not 'worried' about shot placement in several years. Missing my target is not something I was trained to do. Quote
endless Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 How do you like the tracker? I couldn't get past the 5 round .44 mag and lost interest in it, although I hear it's a wonderful hog leg!! Oh, and the first time I had range-time with an PX4 I just about had to change trousers. The PX4 has a de-cocker integrated into it's safety, and when you safety the weapon the hammer falls with the same force as it does when you squeeze the trigger.... it was a nice firing gun, comfortable and all to shoot, but Good lord that was butt-clincher. I love my Tracker being my first hand gun. My holds 7 rounds and I love the single and double action. The only down fall is it's get dirty quick after like 30 rounds or so. Could be the cheap rounds or just normal for revolvers, I don't know but I keep mine clean after each use. Yea I changed my mind on the PX4. I'm going for the Springfield XD (M) 40 cal. http://www.basspro.com/Springfield-Armory-XD%28M%29--40-S&W-Pistol/product/10218509/89906 Or the Smith & Wesson M&P40 with magazine lock. http://www.basspro.com/Smith-&-Wesson-M&P40--40-S&W-Full-Size-Pistol-w/Magazine-Lock/product/10218388/81812 Quote
endless Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 I got it ................The Springfield XD M 40 cal Quote
Super User Crestliner2008 Posted July 29, 2012 Super User Posted July 29, 2012 I'm a revolver man, being rather old and old school. If you can't settle an argument with 5, then you're probably over your head to begin with. Here are a couple of my favorites. I carry the SP101 .357 all my waking hours. Loaded with .38 Spec. Hyda-Shoks for city use (for reasons cited previously about wandering bullets). I use the full load .357 rounds with 158 gr. solids when field roaming (we have a high population of black bear here in western MA, expecially where I fish from shore). The circa 1976 single action Colt (.45 LC) is a favorite range gun. Quote
fishinkeebs Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Heres one my guns.Love the way it shoots. S&W 5906. 9mm.. 14rnd. mag w/ hollow points Quote
Capt.Bob Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 I never liked to get caught up in ballistics, shot placement is far and away more critical. Oh so true, why I carry my 1911, and I feel confident if I have to pull it I will have full control of the situation with a single shot, IF NEEDED! outa Bed to in bed, on my side, If I am hunting or defending myself from critters, well I have real poison for that. The Ruger Bisley Blackhawks are the 45 Colt, much more than your everyday 44 mag in the way of power for big game, 5 1/2" and 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter!! Rare! The Encore is chambered for the 460 S&W cartridge, 2786 FPS with a 200 grain factory load, I have taken Whitetail deer with it out to 260 yards, it will comfortably work out 300 yards, with 340 grain heavy handloads it will work on any big game animal in the world! I quit hunting with rifles over a decade ago, and have used hanguns for hunting for over a quarter century now, I will never feel under gunned. Quote
sbfishySC Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 My Carry Firearm: Glock 23 Gen 3 .40 cal Quote
rb56 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 i go loaded for bear! i don't have a permit yet, but will after the first of the year. here's mine...yes all 4 at the same time. just kiddin...i only own the .45 and the .22 now. the s&w 629 classic .44 mag was my first real pistol and had sentimental value but had to sell it while waiting for disability. the taurus .44 mag i just sold to buy the 1911. i don't carry but do usually have it in my vehicle. Quote
Super User ww2farmer Posted December 11, 2012 Super User Posted December 11, 2012 I go old school. 1943 mfg. USGI Remington Rand M1911A1. Big and heavy...........like me. Still goes bang every time I pull the trigger at 69 years old, and those big 230 grain slugs go where I point it. Quote
Gunner59 Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 I Carry 3 different models, Tauras 9MM, S&W M&P 40Cal, and my duty weapon is a Glock 21 SF. Quote
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