Do You Bring A Gun

[SirSnookalot]

Easy talk and nothing but lip service before the act. Quite true being aware is helpful, most people are not and certainly not trained, it's one thing shooting at paper target that doesn't move or shoot back. A person with bad intentions has the situation planned out before hand and will come out of nowhere, taking most by complete surprise. Your best recourse at that time is begging.............you won't have a chance to pull your weapon. If carrying a weapon makes you feel better, then carry one, but chances you won't be able to use it.

It's easy to play " Dirty Harry" on the net.

[Hi Salenity]

I agree with you Snook and I'd hate to have been in your shoes! the odds are 1 in a Million that you will need a gun to save your life or maybe the lives of many (Batman shooting...) but if more people were armed maybe the stories on the news would have better endings .

[Hi Salenity]

Snook, do you carry?

[SirSnookalot]

Snook, do you carry?

Actually I did around 1975 for a couple of years, at that time in Michigan a CCW was not easy to obtain, at that time they were issued for people that worked in risky areas, or had jobs that made them possible targets, luckily I had no problems. After a while I felt uncomfortable with a gun and more uncomfortable with the idea of what might happen to me if I made a mistake shooting the wrong person, or maybe letting my temper get the best of me.

I have been held up and mugged twice at gunpoint, not work related and at night, I was plain lucky, no weapon would have done me any good. Many that would disagree probably have never been robbed at gunpoint, it's total surprise, the odds favor the mugger. I can't be convinced that I'm safer with a gun on my hip, I may feel safer, but in reality I don't think I am.

Yeah, I'm real anti gun, the facts are undeniable, we have more guns per capita and more deaths per capita due to firearms than anywhere else, whether it be from criminals or domestic violence. As I say, if someone thinks they are safer, can carry one legally, do it if you choose, I choose not to.

[Hi Salenity]

I understand, while I am very pro gun I don't carry 90% of the time. I have 2 small children and it scares me to death the thought of them getting a hold of my gun somehow. I mainly carry a Springfield armory XD in 9mm or if I'm feeling "really thuggy" (so Raider would say) I'll toat the 45. Neither of them have a safety it's just point and bang! Mostly they are safe Queens with the rest of the toys.

[Stasher1]

I find it ironic that some people will invest hours, days, or even years studying bodies of water in an attempt to figure out where the bass are waiting to ambush their prey, but they won't put any effort at all into studying their own surroundings to determine where human predators are likely to be waiting to ambush prey.

[Zoff]

Easy talk and nothing but lip service before the act. Quite true being aware is helpful, most people are not and certainly not trained, it's one thing shooting at paper target that doesn't move or shoot back. A person with bad intentions has the situation planned out before hand and will come out of nowhere, taking most by complete surprise. Your best recourse at that time is begging.............you won't have a chance to pull your weapon. If carrying a weapon makes you feel better, then carry one, but chances you won't be able to use it.

It's easy to play " Dirty Harry" on the net.

You sure do paint with a pretty wide and sloppy brush there. Don't assume that "ALL" of us are internet commandos. Some of us do have real would training and experience. I have been in situations like those you speak of. I have been ambushed... assaulted... targeted by unsavory folks. Yes... it can take you by surprise even when you stay alert. Training is everything and one will fight as they train.

[clayton86]

I find it ironic that some people will invest hours, days, or even years studying bodies of water in an attempt to figure out where the bass are waiting to ambush their prey, but they won't put any effort at all into studying their own surroundings to determine where human predators are likely to be waiting to ambush prey.

Honestly it can happen any where though, last summer a women was stabbed to death in the Walmart me and my wife go to and she was stabbed in the same parking spot we were in 30 minutes prior right smack dab in the middle of the entrance first parking spot. Now granted that was a rare case it still can happen anywhere. Now I'm with traveler2586 I'v been trained to notice my surroundings and I do it at home as much as I do it here. Yes I'm in Kuwait but there still are people here that don't like Americans I sat well moved around for a few hours the other week alone in the airport the day Ramadan ended I know a bit of Arabic and could tell who was talking about me who was eyeing me up and watching me/following me. We still have threats here not like Afghanistan or Iraq but there are forces here that would like to bring harm to us just not in form of a fire fight I'd rather have a fire fight though rather then worrying about bombs. Generally speaking though most criminals don't commit there crimes in broad daylight in the open for all to see they wait for an empty store why because if its empty less chance of some one in there carrying and all your attention is on the 1 or 2 clerks, or they go for the dark ally way or abandoned streets why same reason no one will see them and less chance of some one there with a bigger gun.

[SirSnookalot]

Some of us do have real would training and experience

The keyword is some................you being a LEO should be trained, I don't believe most average citizens are.

[clayton86]

The keyword is some................you being a LEO should be trained, I don't believe most average citizens are.

as long as he shoots better then them NYC cops

[Zoff]

The keyword is some................you being a LEO should be trained, I don't believe most average citizens are.

Point taken. I can accept that.

as long as he shoots better then them NYC cops

Yeah... I do. Until I got back into fishing, it was my ONLY hobby outside of work. I averaged 1000 rounds a month through a handgun alone. Maybe only 500 through various rifles. It became almost boring to shoot as I had maxed out my longest distance on my Farm.

[VolFan]

Don't armchair those NYC cops too much. They got stuck in a bad situation and neutralized the bad guy. Bullets don't always stop in someone, and as I understand it, about 80% of their rounds were right on target. That exact situation is why gunfights in public places are very rarely a good idea, but appeared to be necessary in this case.

[Zoff]

Don't armchair those NYC cops too much. They got stuck in a bad situation and neutralized the bad guy. Bullets don't always stop in someone, and as I understand it, about 80% of their rounds were right on target. That exact situation is why gunfights in public places are very rarely a good idea, but appeared to be necessary in this case.

Not knocking them. I know several NYPD that shoot competition and win every time.

[clayton86]

Don't armchair those NYC cops too much. They got stuck in a bad situation and neutralized the bad guy. Bullets don't always stop in someone, and as I understand it, about 80% of their rounds were right on target. That exact situation is why gunfights in public places are very rarely a good idea, but appeared to be necessary in this case.

Yes I realize that I'm not criticizing them to much I think 19 total rounds were fired 10 hit the bad guy 3 into bystanders the others were all fragments. I think 10 rounds in one guy is a bit excessive should have been 4-6 tops two well placed center mass shots from a .45 would put d**n near anyone down 2 cops same time means 4 holes maybe 6 if they do 3 shots each but 10 I think that's a bit much especially in a crowded area with that many rounds fired they must have been pulling that trigger the whole time his body was falling.

[uhhello]

Yes I realize that I'm not criticizing them to much I think 19 total rounds were fired 10 hit the bad guy 3 into bystanders the others were all fragments. I think 10 rounds in one guy is a bit excessive should have been 4-6 tops two well placed center mass shots from a .45 would put d**n near anyone down 2 cops same time means 4 holes maybe 6 if they do 3 shots each but 10 I think that's a bit much especially in a crowded area with that many rounds fired they must have been pulling that trigger the whole time his body was falling.

How many times have you fired your weapon in a situation like they were in?

[hooah212002]

How many times have you fired your weapon in a situation like they were in?

It shouldn't matter. Cops have to held to a higher standard as far as weapons discipline since they carry a firearm every day they go to work. Just because someone who is not a cop sucks at weapons discipline doesn't mean we can excuse cops when they shoot ANYONE full of holes, improperly discharge their weapon or anything of the sort. You really want to wonder how a cop will handle a situation he/she is supposed to be trained specifically for, just because joe schmoe civilian would crumble under pressure?

It's pathetic the free pass some people give bad cops. And there are A LOT more bad cops than meets the eye.

edit:

Not to mention clayton has most likely been in MUCH worse situations than these cops, what with being in a combat zone as we speak.

[clayton86]

It shouldn't matter. Cops have to held to a higher standard as far as weapons discipline since they carry a firearm every day they go to work. Just because someone who is not a cop sucks at weapons discipline doesn't mean we can excuse cops when they shoot ANYONE full of holes, improperly discharge their weapon or anything of the sort. You really want to wonder how a cop will handle a situation he/she is supposed to be trained specifically for, just because joe schmoe civilian would crumble under pressure?

It's pathetic the free pass some people give bad cops. And there are A LOT more bad cops than meets the eye.

edit:

Not to mention clayton has most likely been in MUCH worse situations than these cops, what with being in a combat zone as we speak.

I may be getting combat pay but I'm far from combat we do roll "amber" most the time how ever and have had some uhm interesting situations that could go either way luckily its never to serious. I will say though depending on this Syria issue I may be re enlisting if it kicks off while I'm in and if not I will re enlist when and if it does happen. I have been in the army for going on 5 years now infantry the whole time that's 5 years of training of how to do nothing but that situation they were faced with.

[hooah212002]

I may be getting combat pay

If you're not in the rear with the gear, you are technically in a combat zone. Weren't you in Afghanistan recently as well?

[K_Mac]

It's pathetic the free pass some people give bad cops. And there are A LOT more bad cops than meets the eye.

With all due respect, that is an opinion I do not share. There are some bad apples in any profession, but I have good friends who protect and serve with honor and pride, and most who do the job are the same in my experience. I will not stay quiet while you disparage the profession. As far as the NY incident is concerned I don't have enough information to know if there should have been less shots fired. Shooting till the bad guy stops his aggression is the standard as far as I know. It is easy to be critical sitting in the quiet safety of anonymity on the interweb. I will not second guess them.

[00 mod]

Enough is enough guys! We are done with this topic!

Jeff