Line Setup For Punching'

[n8cas4]

When I use a Fluorocarbon leader, my leader knot causes some backlashes when the knot hits a guide harder than normal. Also, whenever I get hung up when I'm using braid to FC leader, I break off at the leader knot every time ( that's even when I've experimented with 20lb braid to 8lb FC on spinning setups) I use a double uni to tie 65lb to 12 or 15lb FC for my leader knot up here in Connecticut. Is there a better knot out there in terms of breaking strength AND size of knot?

Should I even be messing around with braid to FC? How many tie braid straight to their flippin' / punch bait?

[BrianinMD]

If you are punching the cover is very think and line visibility should not be an issue. I would forget the leader and stick with straight braid, you need the strenght and an extra knot is just another weak link.

[unionman]

You could use a rope for punching mats.... They cant see it. Direct tie with braid is only way to go for mats/lilly pads.

[SoFlaBassAddict]

If you're punching, generally you don't need a leader unless the water is very, very clear. Even then I still don't think it's going to matter. As far as which knot, the Albright or Modified Albright knots are the way to go. Forget the rest of them. Learn how to tie one of them right and you'll probably never break off at the connection knot again. If the knot is getting stuck in the tip top guide, simply use a shorter leader.

[msolorio]

yea man i never ever use a leader for punchin, its unnecessary. after seeing tons of fish being caught on an umbrella rig, i really dont think the fish care about line at all. once in awhile yea but not very often. if you must use a leader, tie the alberto knot (modified albright) like sofla mentioned, the best, smallest, strongest knot around. if its gonna fail, itll fail when your tightening it down. my advice, go straight braid and tie a snell.

[A-Rob]

Straight braid, you won't be disappointed.

Even on cover thats not ver dense, it still makes the water dark enough for braid.

I fish grass lakes. Whenever I'm in the weeds braid is great for the jig or punch bait.

With that said I have a worm/light jig rod with straight FC to balance out the heavy braid rig.

But I did not notice any fish being line shy with straight braid, even up north where the cover is not nearly as heavy as down south.

The B.A.S.S. Tourney that Ish won in florida right after the classic, the guys were pitching jigs to cane and laid down cane (not heavy mats) with straight braid.

[james 14]

I use straight braid for nearly all flipping. When you're flipping that means your either in or right next to the cover and you need to be able to manhandle the fish to keep them out of it. I played around with heavy FC for flipping and, while I didn't lose any fish as a result, I didn't catch anymore fish than with the braid and it was MUCH less manageable when you compare the limpness of braid to FC. This means I can get the bait through the grass easier and it falls more naturally.

For your leader knot you need to go with the Alberto (modified Albright) as mentioned above. Check out my post on Braid-Leader Knot Test where I recently tested several leader knots. This is the only one that wouldn't break before the knot on the hook.

[LgMouthGambler]

Straight braid.

[n8cas4]

Awesome. Thanks for the advice! I forgot to mention that I mainly flip and pitch to milfoil/hydrilla and don't punch as much. I know those two patterns are different, but straight braid in heavy milfoil or hydrilla is fine too, right?

I got to learn to tie that knot! I saw Aaron martens do a demo on YouTube recently - time to practice. What's the best knot for braid without Snelling to hook?

[G3Steve]

Another recommendation for straight braid. Pitching to dense vegetation - straight braid also. The grass will help to camouflage your line.

If flipping, you should snell a straight shank hook. If you're just asking for a knot when not punchin/flipping, then tie a palomar.

[guest]

Like mentioned above straight braid (50lb - 80lb) is the way to go. Use a straight shank flipping hook with a bait keeper. If you snell the hook (simple uni will work) you should improve your hook-up ratio. However a palomar knot will suffice if you don't want to snell.

For a braid to flouro connection consider learning to tie an FG knot. It is not easy to tie, but is very slender and will pass through the guides with ease. Another knot to consider is the slim beauty.

[n8cas4]

On a related note, (i might have to start a new thread) whats the most efficient way to stay grass / muck free?

Should I...

t-rig with the hook 't-exposed' by bringing the hook all the way through the bait where the hook rests parrallel with the soft-plastic. Then skin the tip of the hook to lay flat and covered by a very thin layer of soft plastic. I usually use this method with a sweet beaver, but it does ruin the bait pretty quickly. That thin part on top of the soft plastic will eventually tear and then I can't skin the hook anymore.

I've seen where people sometimes push the hook all the way through the soft plastic to make it easier for the hook to penetrate through the soft plastic on hook sets. They then back it off and leave the tip of the hook to rest in the soft plastic. With this method I inevitably end up pulling in grass or whatever when the tip of the hook tends to expose just the slightest amount (but just enough to bring in big stalks of milfoil).

Or should I bury the tip In the soft plastic without bringing it through the bait. I've never caught a fish that way because I have no confidence that I'll set the hook hard enough to penetrate the soft plastic before the fish lets go.

[msolorio]

any time your flippin to grass or any type of cover for that matter use a straight shank hook and leave the hook in the plastic. if your using good sharp hooks, that hook will punch right through the plastic and the fish's jaw just fine. i very very rarely have an issue with snagging.

[n8cas4]

What hooks do you use, if you don't mind me asking? I have the gama straight shanks keeper hooks Size 3/0 and 5/0 (5 is pretty big)

[msolorio]

i use the gammys or the paycheck baits punch hooks. if i can find em ill use the reaction innovations bmf hook. pretty much the same as the paychecks but i always tie a snell knot. i like the gammys i just hate the keepers, the slide down after 2 fish or sometimes they just slide down without catchin any. i usually cut it off and fasten the metal keeper with a much better piece of shrink wrap that i use.

[n8cas4]

Those paycheck hooks look serious. I've never applied my own hook keeper. Is it as simple as heating it up with a liter? Size 3 and 4 should suffice for the largies in CT.

[J Francho]

65 or 85# Power Pro, tied straight to the bait.

[piscicidal]

I bury the hook when punching. If I go exposed/tex-posed when punching, I am spending more time wrestling with baits than I want to.

I like to use a straight shank 4/0 (Gammy Heavy Cover) hook, and a small profile bait like a Gambler BB cricket for punching the heavy stuff. On this particular setup, the length of the bait/hook is just right so I can bury the hook right into the tip of the bait up past the barb. My catch rate with this rig is outstanding...in the 90%+ range. I don't believe burying the hook has decreased my catch rate. And frankly...any fish that can't expose the barb with this setup, I don't want to catch. Punching is a big fish technique and I'm looking for 5-10 big bites a day when doing it.

[msolorio]

yea just put the shrink barb on the hook, point side up, heat it with a lighter, pinch the pointed end out so it forms the keeper and thats it. doesnt slide down and doesnt let the bait ball up.

[n8cas4]

I've always wondered how much power/energy is needed behind a hook set when flippin or punchin. I have a weak hook set mainly because when first starting out I had great difficulty telling the difference between a bite or being hung up in whatever cover. Add to that the heavy action rod im using for this technique. But I'm definitely going to try burying the hook this year with a straight shank hook as opposed to a texposing with a strong offset hook.

Largest fish caught flippin is probably only 2 lbs (just started last year). I'm hoping to change that this season- thanks for the help.

[BrianinMD]

A strong hookset is a definite advantage, larger diameter hooks require more force, and trying to get the fish turned/heading towards you as quickly as possible.

[J Francho]

You need to cross their eyes, and get them out of cover quickly when punching. It isn't the place for weak hooksets.

[n8cas4]

Are those Trokar hooks better for weaker hook setters because they seem easier to penetrate with the surgical sharpening ( compared to Gama's). Gama's probably have the advantage everywhere else though, except maybe hook penetration??

[james 14]

Your hookset should be a combination of setting the hook and pulling the fish straight up out of the water. Reel down and yank him up out of there. Every fish under 3lbs or so will come right up in the boat and everything else will be turned and not allowed to getting into the grass. A lot of people (myself included) freak out on the strike and try to set the hook too quickly. Take the time to prepare for the hookset and you should have no problems if you're using braid and a heavy rod.

[msolorio]

honestly, i havent seen a difference in hooksets/penetration/strength between a trokar and a paycheck punch hook. ill stick to the tried and true paycheck hook. like mentioned above, you have to blow their eyes outta their skulls when u set the hook in heavy crap, you have to cus if you give that fish any chance of burying itself in whatever cover your fishing it will and you may or may not get em out.