james 14 Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 I used to use a surgeon's knot but wanted to test this Alberto knot I've heard about. I also tried a uni-uni just to see what it would do. I tied the leader knot and then tied a palomar to a ring which was hooked to something stationary, giving me something to pull against. I figured I would start by seeing if I could get the palomar to break first. If not, I would move on to testing the actual break strength using the line to lift objects of varying weights. I never had to get that far. The alberto knot beat the palomar everytime...several times. Since I always use a palomar on my hooks I am comfortable using the alberto for my leaders from now on. The surgeon's knot, which I had been using and had gotten to beat a palomar before in the past, lost everytime...as did the uni-uni. For the alberto you HAD to tie it exactly right. This meant wrapping the braid up and back down the leader loop with the same number of wraps both ways and it meant running the tag of the braid through the loop the same way it went in originally. If any of these things didn't occur correctly the knot failed. It wasn't hard to do but it definitely made a difference if it wasn't right. 1 Quote
msolorio Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 i love the alberto for braid to fluor leader, the best. Quote
Super User Team9nine Posted June 4, 2012 Super User Posted June 4, 2012 Alberto is a great knot, but as you found out yourself, its strength can vary depending on how careful you tie the knot. I've actually migrated over to the J knot, which is nearly as strong, but doesn't require the level of attentiveness to maintain its strength (read: I can tie it more easily and consistently). -T9 Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted June 4, 2012 Super User Posted June 4, 2012 Which ever knot is used make sure it's tied correctly and it should not fail. I use either the alberto of no name knot which is similar, I use a max of 6-7 turns only and it's solid. I make sure my knot is always outside the rod tip, I don't like a knot passing thru the tip, especially spinning. My leaders are on the short side ( repetitive cast and retrieve), only times my leaders are around 4-5 feet is drift fishing, I prefer picking my fish up by the leader not the main line, especially a braid main line. Using 30-60# leaders the weight of the fish poses little problems in hoisting them up, thrashing fish and toothy critters, a gaf or net is SOP. I've been reading some very positive reviews on the triple surgeon knot, but haven't used it yet, looks real easy to tie too. Quote
james 14 Posted June 5, 2012 Author Posted June 5, 2012 I've been reading some very positive reviews on the triple surgeon knot, but haven't used it yet, looks real easy to tie too. Triple Surgeon's didn't hold for me. Even when I had the Alberto fail it still held about as well as the triple surgeon's. I even tried looping the surgeon's knot 5-6 times which created a quintuple surgeon's (or something like that). It made it only marginally better. Now, if you wanna talk loop knots...I used a triple surgeon's loop to beat a palomar and was much stronger than the rapala knot...and much easier to get right. The rapala knot screws up when I tighten it down at least half the time since it has two different knots that are tightening at once. I'm going to have to look up the J-knot to see if it's any easier. The Alberto isn't that hard to get right...but it does have to be right. The problem I have with it is the fact that the tag end faces the wrong way and will catch on the rod eyes. I tried to cut the tag really short but it made the knot weaker. Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted June 5, 2012 Super User Posted June 5, 2012 @James, I agree with regarding the alberto catching the rod guide, especially on a lighter spinning rod. That's one reason I seldom use, except for species that will hit a swivel as quick as a lure, like Spanish Makerel. When I do use it, the knot is always outside the rod top, resulting in a shorter leader but I never mind tieing a new one. Even when I had the Alberto fail it still held either the knot holds or it fails, it's like being pregnant, either she is or isn't. I looked at a video of that triple surgeon, to me it appears to be a 3 wrapped loop knot cinched all the way down. This may or may not be a good knot for joining lines, but for lure attachment, the loopknot excellent, I use 2 wraps not 3 and it holds my tarpon and snook without failure. For the over whelming majority of my fishing, it's swivel not alberto, for leader attachment and my ordinary or improved clinch knots have no higher a failure rate than any other knot I've used. My line doesn't enter the water unless I feel the knots are perfect. I say, go with whatever works for ya, knots should automatically be tied, not sitting over and pondering which one to use, tied correctly most work just fine. Quote
james 14 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Posted June 6, 2012 When I said the knot "failed" I meant that it broke. All knots will break at some point and in these instances the Alberto broke before the palomar. The tests above were with 15lb mono. I'm going to try again with the 8lb FC I'm planning on actually fishing with before taking it to the water. Quote
Michael DiNardo Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I am surprised that so many like/use the Palomar knot. I find it hard to tie and I never felt confidence in the knot. Mike Quote
Super User Long Mike Posted June 6, 2012 Super User Posted June 6, 2012 james 14,I use the Stren knot exclusively with my braid to flouro/mono connections. It's a combination of the Improved Clinch and Uni. I would appreciate it if you would give it a comparison test and let us know what you find out. http://thelimpcobra.com/tag/stren-knot/ Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted June 6, 2012 Super User Posted June 6, 2012 I'm in 100% agreement with Mike, I dislike the palomar. No reflection on how good or bad it may be, but for me it's very awkward, my knots hold as well if not better and way easier to tie. The knot is the single most important factor in fishing, badly tied knots lose fish and properly tied knots land them. Quote
james 14 Posted June 8, 2012 Author Posted June 8, 2012 james 14,I use the Stren knot exclusively with my braid to flouro/mono connections. It's a combination of the Improved Clinch and Uni. I would appreciate it if you would give it a comparison test and let us know what you find out. http://thelimpcobra....tag/stren-knot/ As I suspected it didn't fair too well. The link you provided shows the clinch knot being used on the braid which isn't a good idea at all. I watched the braid slip at least 1/4" before the leader line broke. I also tried it by using the clinch on the leader side but it didn't work too well either. I pulled them directly against an Alberto tied at the other end of the leader. Snook, the way I tie my palomar I wet it enough so that it pulls tight while pulling both the main line and the tag end. It should provide little resistance and tighten down solidly. If not then it wasn't wet enough before tightening. Before I wrap the loop over I'm careful not to tighten the overhand knot down too much. If it's tight it creates more friction when you try to tighten the overall knot down at the end. Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted June 8, 2012 Super User Posted June 8, 2012 @James, I'm glad you are pleased with the palomar, I'm not, but it makes no difference as long the knot of one's choice does the job. Not always but much of the time I don't wet my knots, I find the larger diameters leaders like 30 or 40# and up require wettness more so than the lighter ones. Being in Florida quite often the humidity in the air makes the line slide enough for a good cinch on it's own, not to say I don't advocate wetting the line, but for me it's a knot by knot decision. I am not a fan at all of leader to line via a knot, I much prefer leaders to swivels, I tie line to leaders only for a few targeted species. It doesn't really make a difference, so many people on here don't even use leaders and tie directly to the lure, both braid and mono. The argument comes up that 1 more knot is 1 more weak spot, tie the knot right and there should be no problem. I can't think of one pelagic species that is caught without a leader, to me that blows the weak link theory right out of the water. Quote
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