The Great Frog Debate- A Must Read!

[tpsneaks18]

This stems from another great thread about "what's the best frog on the Market"- After posting several times in there, and being such a big fan of frog fishing, I realized this needs a whole new thread...but I reccomend checking that thread out! ( http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/102691-spro-scum-or-live-target-frogs/page__st__15 ). But as I thought about "Whats THE best frog?" I thought to myself- Impossible to answer. It's become too large of a market...I remember when the scum frog and snag proof were pretty much your choices and they were super cool and 'ground breaking'...so never forget who laid the ground work. But since then the market has BOOMED...there's walking frogs, spitting frogs, popping frogs, "gurgling" frogs, BIG frogs, small frogs, "regular" frogs...etc, etc. And this is pertaining only to Soft, Hollow-Body Frogs. Not to mention all the soft plastic and hard body frogs out there...It can get overwhelming...I think the frog is under-utilized. In the sense that...with Crankbaits, with soft plastics, etc. we have so many factores that determine what we use and why and when. Depth, water clarity, vegetation, water temp, I could go on for days. Hollow frogs need to be looked @ in a similiar fashion. People just say 'I'm going frogging" and throw on a frog...Not taking into account vegetation style/type, thickness of vegetation, weater, wind, fish's "mood", etc. etc. This should be done and will increase your frogging exponentially! So below is a list of "types" of frogs and my favorite for each category. I think this will help you realize t hat there's more to it than just chucking out a frog you like and pullin it to the boat.

1. General purpose frog that spits and "hops" over mats very weedlessly- Spro or Koppers cannot be beat. Spro's ONLY downfall to me (otherwise perfect general frog) is that it's a little firm...newer frogs have been made much softer. I dont have the biggest hook up problem w/ frogs but if u do, go w/ Koppers.

2. A Frog that makes lots of noise and does all the "work" for you/good in open water as well: Deps Basirisky frog...forward arching legs make it gurgle/shimmy like a jitterbug. Great on edges of pads and @ night. OR River2sea "Step Wa" Frog- I've never used it but videos can be seen on youtube. Has a clear from lip just like a jitterbug lip...rest of the frog is the same as any weedless, hollow-body frog.

3. A Frog that "walks the dog" easily: TW stopped carrying another frog that i cant remember the name of...an expensive japanese frog w/ a swivel to attach a small colorado blade or a single skirt....walked better than any frog, as easily as a spook. But now the best walking frog is the Jackall Iobee...their "finish" and "realism" may not be #1, but the design is to me...the hook is built around that frog...perfection...The legs are just right length and phenomonal living rubber that just flares perfectly n slowly, It is also sealed extremely well from any water getting in, and it walks quite easily thanks to a keel weighted hook inside and a keel-shape. I've heard the booyah walks well too...snag proof makes a spook-style hollow-body bait also.

4. A Finesse Frog- Koppers smallest size is a true "finesse frog"...River2sea's smallest is a good downsizer, and of course the spro Jr. The spro Jr. downsizes the least, then the river2sea is just a tad smaller, the smallest koppers is a real little guy but still has enough weight to throw out there just fine. Like I said in the thread above ^- I had a tournament I won in the last 20-25 minutes by downsizing my offering after beating a small creek arm HARD with other frogs.

5. A BIG frog for BIG Bass when the bite is ON: The ish monroe giant frog is a good BIG frog and he's had some great success with it and Koppers offers a largest size that is nice n big and the Evolve Nervous Walker is a pretty large/wide frog with beads inside and nice soft rubber, good hook ups!

5. A popping/spittin' frog- Hands down- The SPRO popping frog. Paycheck baits makes one that looks decent/different but the spro spits the way it should, it's a great bait. Scum frog makes a weak attempt at a popping frog IMO...but it'll catch em just not "pop" all that much.

6. Miscellaneous/hard body/open water frog: The koppers field mouse- soft body- AWESOME! The River2sea dahlberg frog intrigues me A LOT... i haven't had the chance to really put it thru it's paces yet but it's a hard body frog but always lands rightside up, has a great weedless feature so will be FINE in mats...and witha steady DOWNWARD pull it dives downward...and if u continue to do long pulls downward it can get down to like 5-6 feet and look just like a frog trying to borrow itself under something to survive...Also in scattered open mats popping it along the mats then diving it under the "holes/openings" should be incredible...It's versatile and great. The Koppers makes a hard body spook style bait thats a very realistic frog profile...great open water bait already done well w/ it. Subtle walker. Then there's that new weird Molix frog/crankbait deal...looks ridiculous to me just thought I'd mention it.

The point is...asking "what's the best frog on the market?" is becoming like asking "what's the best single soft bait on the market?" or "What's the best crankbait on the market?"---It's become too large a market with too big an array of options for what you need out of the frog...There is frogs for every situation now and it helps to have 1 of each @ least if u care about froggin'. And frogging yields some LARGE bass as we know. And as far as hook-up ratio problems go...make sure you're using the right gear.... and you need to practive patience, once you see the BLOW UP your natural reaction is to do exactly that---REACT! DON'T react right away...wait til you make sure that frog is under the water and reel down and get that slack up- then set the jaw off of that fish! Gear plays a big role in this as well.

IMHO You NEED a good stiff, fast blank...a frog specific rod would be great but if not, a heavy jig rod or flipping rod...I prefer a little over 7 feet for frogging, 7'2"-7'4" but 7'6" will do if it's all you have and so will 7foot. Second I think a high speed reel is needed for the same reasons you want the longer rod...a lot of "slack" is involved in frog fishing, u need to be able to "pick up" line and move line FAST. So a long rod, and a fast reel helps a TON. Lastly...I am a flourocarbon/mono guy...I rarely use braid but I do believe that braid is the only way to go for heavy-mat frog fishing. It has 0 stretch, enables u to CUT (literally) thru vegetation...and it floats well and has extreme responsiveness to your frog. You don't NEED all 3 of these things to fish frogs. But the more you can afford to employ, the better your frog fishing will be. If you don't have a longer rod use the longest you have and stiffest u have, but u have a high speed reel..a 7 footer w/ a high speed is just FINE. If you don't have a high speed but have a nice stought, long rod then use the fastest reel you have. If you don't like Braid or don't want to pay for it then a good ABRASION resistant heavy mono or co-polymer can be great too...I find the line to be the least important of the 3, u dont NEED braid...I use mono and copolymer sometimes if I'm not in the heaviest of heavy stuff and our water clarity is very clear...I often punch w/ my frog rods too so even w/ all that vegetation I just dont have the confidence w/ braid because I believe fish CAN see braid and that's a whole 'nother thread right there. I believe you lose bites, plain and simple unless it's topwater frogging. Keep in mind even in our HEAVY vegetation our visibility is easily 5-7 ft. @ the worst...we have 15 ft. and up visibility out here...most of our lakes are very clear here in Massachusetts. So if Braid's not ur thing, or you dont wanna pay, or for wahtever reason, then I reccomend, If you don't mind paying a little, Sunline Machinegun Test Co-Polymer is greattt for frogging. Extremely abrasion resistant, very low stretch and manageable, good line. It's about 17$ for 165$ yard...I'd use 20-25lbs test. If you don't wanna pay that much the new Trilene XL "Armor Coated" is great- the manageability of XL with an abrasion resistant coating, and less stretch...again 20-25lbs test for heavy vegetation. I have only found Armor Coated XL to go up to 20# on TW but that's just fine. This is inexpensive @ 9.95 for 220 yards. Berkley "BIG GAME" is great too.

Thanks for reading and I hope this helps some more with the great frog debate!!! If you have any more questions or anything feel free to contact me via PM or post it right on in here! Hope this helps some people!!!

[Nice_Bass]

^{I would agree, but would also add the 3:16 no bull frog to a category of its own.}

[airborne_angler]

Wondering how the Boze Sumo Frog stacks up in the rankings.

[loodkop]

Great post. Thanks for taking the time to type this up. I love frog fishing so much that my current flipping/ pitching bait is the Rojas fighting frog. Now I just need a frog colored spinnerbait and I'm set.

[unionman]

Everyone uses a different frog to match the live ones in their neck of the woods.

[Primus]

Just read this thread today, good stuff and thanks for sharing.

[logan9209]

On my lake there are no lily pads or surface veggie. Bank fishing, there are a few trees and bushes that hang out over the water (including root systems in one particular spot). However, there are a few spots where the veggie get as high as 6" below surface. I bought a KVD Sexy Frog last month. So my concern, as with some of my other lures, is this: Can top water frogs still be effective here? The lake is easily 80% shallow and 20% deep......ish. Check my pic album for a topdown view of my lake or go to "Success with Spinnerbiat.....Sorta".

[Lee Ricketts]

Great post!

And I have success with frogs in a deep lake that has almost no vegetation. Just fishing the banks, overhands, trees in water, etc. If its a shallow lake with high vegetation I would be almost sure you will have success.

[logan9209]

I do not mean to take away from the OP, but he got me thinking (again). Lee you said that except for being deeper it's pretty much the same type of situation as my lake. So do topwater frogs follow the "rule of thumb" like other ones do? You know, like they are better at sunrise hours and sunset hours or can they be just as effective through out the day?

[logan9209]

I agree with the OP but I feel it applies to just about any lure. Now days any lure category has a situational category. It didn't use to be that way. And to top that off, they now have lures that could fit into multiple categories. The chatter bait is one of those. It acts as spinnerbait, crankbait, jig, and a frog. I say spinnerbait, but theirs no spinner blades on them. They do give off a lot of flash like a spinnerbait.

[tpsneaks18]

agreed on the chatterbait...I consider it so much like a spinnerbait that it has virtually eliminated ALL spinnerbaits in my arsenal. I barely ever reach for a blade bait cuz I just have so much more confidence in a chatter/bladed swim jig in the same situations I'd think "spinnerbait".

And yes Frogs absolutely work in open-ish water...they're great when "beating the bank" and around laydowns...but if no vegetation reaches the surface you may opts for a less weedless frog for better hook-ups...The biggest problem w/ frogs is hook ups. The Koppers livetarget HARD frog (like a spook bait) is awesome. Been using it a lot on my home lake which has no mats or surface vegetation.

[iceintheveins]

If I can't find thick vegetation, throwing a frog back into shaded pockets under trees and the like will bring bites. So if you can't find or don't have much vegetation, skip or pitch it back into those shaded pockets and you will get bit.

[logan9209]

I did have a Rebel Pop-R. I got a couple of strikes on it, but I hung it in a tree a few months back. Darn thing casts like a rocket and I wasn't expecting that. I looked a couple of weeks ago and apparently someone figured out how to get it back. But back on subject, George and I were fishing the "normal" topwater frog. Just throwing at the base of some over hanging trees. He started to talk to me and the next thing we knew his was underwater swimming away. By the time his brain registered what was going on it was too late, the bass spit it out.

[DeBassin619]

Has Anyone fished the Tru-Tungsten Mad Maxx furious frog?

[Kyle Mahaffey]

Good topic. My next lure purchase was a frog, was doing my research because I never used it.

[grimlin]

Don't agree completely with your list,but to each their own I guess....