Private Ponds/lakes Cheating?

[shimmy]

I fish a private lake several times a month, and most days it is just as hard as anywhere else. You still have to find the fish. Just because it is a private pond doesn't mean there's a golden platter where you just grab your limit of lunkers and go on home...

I just don't understand why folks would say don't brag about what you catch at a private pond. What a load of crapola. If I catch a twelve pound bass in a lake, river, farm pond, private pond or out of the tank at BPS itself, I'm happy as heck I caught it, somebody's gonna hear about it. My avatar will show a pic of it and it beats any bass that weighs less than it no matter where it's caught...

Anyone saying otherwise is just one of those 'sour grapes' type of person.

Sour grapes eh? I am still unsure what to make of your comment. Of course you still have to find the fish, but you don't have to look too hard!! The problem is getting them to bite, whereas in a lake you first have to find them in MUCH bigger water and then your challenge is getting them to bite. Let alone trying to track down bait fish and what not. I'm guessing there is a reason why you fish a private pond several times a month...It is all about odds. If it makes no difference, then stop fishing the private pond the rest of the year and let those who eat "sour grapes" fish it for ya!

[ww2farmer]

I don't think anyone is debating the point that fishing is fun, no matter where or how. But, to compare skill levels and bragging rights....mehhh. Sour grapes? Not really, I've been lucky to have the opportunity to fish some pretty sweet private waters. One thing that chaps my rear end is the NY State Record largemouth. Buckhorn Lake? Not public. So, basically, I just need to livewell some big southern fish, dump them in my private lake, and hope I hook one. Hmmmmmmmmm.

You don't need big southern fish. I had one pond I stocked with Bluegills, and four 12"-14" bass early in the year. The pond was about an acre or so. You should have seen the growth rates on those bass, by the end of the summer they were 3lbers, by early next spring the were 4lbs +, by the end of that summer they were over 5, and the next spring they were pushing 6...and thats the last time I fished that pond. That was April 2008, if they are still alive I wonder how big they are now. They did in 3 years what many northern bass take a lifetime to do. Only forage was bluegills. I might have just talked myself into going fishing in this pond again. It's funny too.............when they were 3-4lbs I couldn't get them to bite anything but live bluegills, but once they got over 5, I caught them on Senkos LMAO

[J Francho]

You don't need big southern fish. I had one pond I stocked with Bluegills, and four 12"-14" bass early in the year. The pond was about an acre or so. You should have seen the growth rates on those bass, by the end of the summer they were 3lbers, by early next spring the were 4lbs +, by the end of that summer they were over 5, and the next spring they were pushing 6...and thats the last time I fished that pond. That was April 2008, if they are still alive I wonder how big they are now. They did in 3 years what many northern bass take a lifetime to do. Only forage was bluegills. I might have just talked myself into going fishing in this pond again. It's funny too.............when they were 3-4lbs I couldn't get them to bite anything but live bluegills, but once they got over 5, I caught them on Senkos LMAO

Hence my gripe about the current record.

And OBTW, you might need to fish that pond, lol.

[J Francho]

I can assure you it most definitely does happen around here...Crab Orchard Lake, Ferne Clyffe Lake...

OK, I'll accept the TWO lakes you named. You said "any" lake is managed. My point was about the other three million public bodies of water. Eceptions to the rule are a poor example in a debate.

[grampa1114]

Seems to me that you are catching very nice fish in a comfortable environment with a high percentage rate....good for you...now if the question is "would you take a trophy?" then it falls to you whether you would personally put an asterisk beside it. JMHO

Grampa

[J Francho]

Good point. Asterisks....sometimes most of the work in private mud puddle fishing is done before you even pick up a rod. It takes some research, and you'll be striking out sometimes as well.

[Rolltide09]

I'm a little confused.

Are we talking about a lake that is private and only contains summer homes with some sort of association enforcing rules or man made pond that is stocked?

Man made stocked ponds (85-150acres) managed by a biologist monthly for bigger bass. They are fishing clubs where the members pay the membership dues for upkeep and management purposes.

[hatrix]

At what size body of water does it start to matter to someone? Do you not fish places that are small because its not challenging enough for you? what is small 1000 acres 100, 50, 10, 5, 1? Not every one has big water to fish that is close to them and big is a relative term to where you live and what you consider to be big. Where I am we have hundreds of places under 20 acres or so within 15 miles. Actually its probably thousands if you counted what I consider puddles in peoples front yard. Luckily the biggest NATURAL lake in the state 333 acres is 8 minutes away from me and I have access to fish it. It is basically private water until the parks finally open it to the public in future years to come. Other then that it is somewhat of a trip and a all day event to fish other big lakes except for Erie and that dwarfs everything except the other great lakes. That seems more like fishing a sea then a lake even though I never fished a sea I am just assuming since its water as far as the eye can see. You can even see the curve of the earth on a good day.

[Nice_Bass]

Somewhat interesting debate. I fish mostly a lake around 5000 acres and I consider it fairly small. I catch lots of fish, and pretty decent sized fish out of it. Another lake near me is only 900 acres, and due to size has much more pressure per acre (same with the rest of my area 300-1000 acre lakes). With that smaller and less fish.

On the flip side, my favorite lake in is 55,000 acres (LOZ) and has extreme pressure, but if a study was done would still have less pressure per acre if calculated. Catching fish and large ones there is easy.

I have never fished a pond/lake that was privately managed- if I were to catch a big fish out of there I would be proud, however I would also not mount it. A heavily pressured managed pond that you may or may not catch a large fish out of is an accomplishment, but other needs should be taken into consideration.

Another thought is do we discredit lakes and fisherman that catch monsters that are trout stocked lakes-no, we are in awe.

I guess every picture of someone’s new pb must now contain the following Schaefer short-term catch equation which is as follows.

H(E,X) = qEX

where the variables are; H, referring to catch (harvest) over a given period of time (e.g. a year); E, the fishing effort over the given period; X, the fish stock biomass at the beginning of the period (or the average biomass), and the parameter q represents the catchability of the stock. Assuming the catch to equal the net natural growth in the population over the same period(X= 0), the equilibrium catch is a function of the long term fishing effort E:

H(E)=qKE(1- qE/r)

r and K being biological parameters representing intrinsic growth rate and natural equilibrium biomass respectively.

Note that this is really more a commercial formula management principle but it would also really change that state for state thread!

Also, I really have no idea what it means.

[J Francho]

What those "fish catches per acre" stats don't tell you is how much dead water water is included. Lake Ontario (oddly enough a "trout stocked lake" lol) is like a sea as another poster referred to Erie. But, the available bass habitat is very small, and easily determined when looking at a map. It's probably only a few percent (if that) of the entire lake.

H(E,X) = qEX

where the variables are; H, referring to catch (harvest) over a given period of time (e.g. a year); E, the fishing effort over the given period; X, the fish stock biomass at the beginning of the period (or the average biomass), and the parameter q represents the catchability of the stock. Assuming the catch to equal the net natural growth in the population over the same period(X= 0), the equilibrium catch is a function of the long term fishing effort E:

H(E)=qKE(1- qE/r)

r and K being biological parameters representing intrinsic growth rate and natural equilibrium biomass respectively.

Note that this is really more a commercial formula management principle but it would also really change that state for state thread!

Also, I really have no idea what it means.

OK, I'm lost. You posted something, and don't know what it means? Why?

[mod479]

I encourage any who thinks its easy to try my private lake in the Adirondacks. (seriously, lets go fishing) 27+ feet of the clearest water in NY short of Oneida...and the fish watch YOU. There is no being stealthy and using anything more then 4lb flourocarbon is usually ignored (artificials or livebait)...it can be very challenging. They are the smartest bass I've ever had the pleasure of trying to catch... and when you do finally fool one, its far more gratifying then throwing a senko into the middle of 50 bass in the great lakes and winching them back to the boat with 50 lb braid.

( I still love the great lakes btw)

Just my .02 fellas.

[J Francho]

its far more gratifying then throwing a senko into the middle of 50 bass in the great lakes and winching them back to the boat with 50 lb braid.

LOL, where the heck are you fishing?

[mod479]

LOL, where the heck are you fishing?

Last tourney was on Lake Ontario. They're not hard to find there in my opinion if you can read your $3k sonar unit and use the fundmentals of map reading..

[mod479]

It was the best day of bass fishing I've had...numbers wise anyhow. And easier then catching bullhead! hah

[mod479]

On a side note, I did some research, and used KVDs strategy from back in 1996 when he won the Bassmasters NY invitational. Never had to start the outboard, trolling motor all day in Chaumont Bay.

Hope that answers your question!

[J Francho]

Fished there a time or two....

Chaumont Bay is a special place, indeed. Too far a run for me, lol.

However, Chaumont Bay is FAR from representative of Lake Ontario as a whole. Like calling PI Bay on Erie, all of Lake Erie.

[paul.]

i've fished both and had plenty of fun doing both. i am very fortunate to live close to ky lake/tn river. when it is "right" at ky lake, i'd say it's some of the best fishing i've ever experienced. plenty of 50 plus fish days with several 5's and 6's in the bunch. i have never experienced that type of size and numbers mix at ANY private pond or lake i have EVER fished. and if public water fish are supposed to be "educated", these fish never got the memo. last december when the water was high, i cherry-picked one sandbar over the course of the month for hundreds of fish with plenty of good ones in the mix using the same lure the whole month. you'd think they'd learn to leave that xr50 alone but they never did.

that said, i have also been fortunate enough to fish several amazing ponds and small private or semi-private lakes. with regards to bass size, there's no comparison. i have 2 teens, a 12, and several 10's and 11's. and i will always feel like these fish have an asterisk beside them because they came from a semi-private lake. i also manage a pond. back when i was really putting the work in, i could fish there on any given day and catch 3 fish over 7 pounds in 5 minutes. once i started supplemental feeding, it was even crazier. big fish, super easy to catch. kinda like hunting for cows in small pature with hand grenades. however, even in this fishing paradise, there were always a few select fish that were super "smart" and incredibly hard to catch. the biggest one of these was over 12 when she died and i felt very fortunate to catch her the few times i did.

with regards to bragging, there's 2 kinds. you can either brag on yourself, or the fish. theres the "hey everybody, look at ME, i'm so awesome!" kind. then there's the "hey, look at this awesome FISH!" kind. i'm not a big fan of the first kind regardless of whether we're talking public water or private. i am proud of the big fish that i produce in the pond i manage because i know how much time, effort, and expense went into growing them.

but the truth is i just feel blessed for every day i have on the water - ANY water. i fish for personal satisfaction and relaxation, not to prove anything to anyone else.

[Nice_Bass]

What those "fish catches per acre" stats don't tell you is how much dead water water is included. Lake Ontario (oddly enough a "trout stocked lake" lol) is like a sea as another poster referred to Erie. But, the available bass habitat is very small, and easily determined when looking at a map. It's probably only a few percent (if that) of the entire lake.

OK, I'm lost. You posted something, and don't know what it means? Why?

what it means to you is man dont take life so seriously, and dont try to have an answer for everything (you dont). There is a formula for everything, and everything has a formula to disprove it.

[Nice_Bass]

What those "fish catches per acre" stats don't tell you is how much dead water water is included. Lake Ontario (oddly enough a "trout stocked lake" lol) is like a sea as another poster referred to Erie. But, the available bass habitat is very small, and easily determined when looking at a map. It's probably only a few percent (if that) of the entire lake.

OK, I'm lost. You posted something, and don't know what it means? Why?

Also, are we really taking dead water into this- there is no fishing pressure from people fishing dead water, i dont really look at them.

Also, it is fishing pressure per acre, not catch.

[J Francho]

Also, it is fishing pressure per acre, not catch.

I don't think that's even possible to accurately measure. All you can use is "angling hours," which doesn't really equate to "pressure."

If you don't want to discuss it, then don't post. Mocking people isn't really going to get you very far.

[Nice_Bass]

I don't think that's even possible to accurately measure. All you can use is "angling hours," which doesn't really equate to "pressure."

If you don't want to discuss it, then don't post. Mocking people isn't really going to get you very far.

I post a tongue in cheek formula used in actual fishery mgmt., I am all up for discussing it but if you did not understand that from the get go then we are off to a bad start which tends to happen in typing. You are correct, it is impossible to measure- which essentially was what my post was clarifying originally with the formula- the almost infinite variables to add into different bodies of water. That there is way too many variables to say this small body of water is easier to catch than this large body, etc. You can argue that "angling hours" is also impossible to measure. Not sure where you get mocking, merely returning the tone.

[J Francho]

My job is in statistics. I can argue that ANY stat is impossible to measure, and can carve just about any dataset to match the goals of the survey or report, lol.

[Nice_Bass]

My job is in statistics. I can argue that ANY stat is impossible to measure, and can carve just about any dataset to match the goals of the survey or report, lol.

I like this!

[mod479]

Fished there a time or two....

Chaumont Bay is a special place, indeed. Too far a run for me, lol.

However, Chaumont Bay is FAR from representative of Lake Ontario as a whole. Like calling PI Bay on Erie, all of Lake Erie.

Agreed, nice fish, and I had no other choice as the the optimax wouldnt go into gear anyways!

[J Francho]

LOL, at least it was calm enough to fish. I had a Tx on Champlain like that once. Not a heck of a lot real close to the little Crown Point town launch.