bulldog1935

Holy cow, I had SP with Air bearings and threadline braid next to Super Duty with mono backing arbor and 20-lb 832 (twice the diameter of the SP threadline braid). The Super Duty mag brake consistently cast 1/8 oz 20% farther than the SP centrifugal, trying to catch up by gradually reducing the centrifugal all the way to backlash. I ran across this difference on the water when an over-slot red broke off the leader on my SP, noticed on the water the SD out-distanced it with the same lure, then went home to my metered back acre and proved it. People who can't cast without jerk or are throwing big weights will always like centrifugal better. Centrifugal prevents start-up backlash, and always costs distance at mid cast compared to properly set mag. No, the physics has been worked out. Mag brake backs off as spool slows, centrifugal always makes physical contact. Where you need mag brake is mid-cast. Casting light lures you Never need centrifugal brake unless you cast with jerk. And of course, my Roro-X spool on Daiwa will cast 3 g 30% farther than either reel above will cast 5 g. Where does limited experience with one brand compare to empirical measurement.

His question would have a better chance of being found by the right answers if the rod models or even just the brand were included in the thread title.

If you use proper manual bail technique, there's virtually no such thing as over-filling your spool. Always keep your free hand close to the spool to feather the line. Close the bail with the same hand, never with auto-bail close. Turn with the rod and take up the slack before you begin retrieve. Pretty much solves every complaint about spinning tackle - runaway line, wind knots. I fill my braid reels to where my fingernail from the bottom of the line keeper groove can't feel a change moving onto the spooled braid. Works the same way with fluoro.

@AlabamaSpothunter no, there's also a difference in the spool and braking profile, also. SV uses lighter rotor and stronger magnets, while Steez A uses Magforce-Z brakes.

My 3000MHG is Twin Power, but in general, that's a bad boy size, spindle and drag from large frame - big bass to big redfish. Where Vanquish really shines is in the lighter sizes.

Everyone is trying to talk you into a larger reel. I would look at capacity on JDM C2000S, C2000SHG (high-geared) Shimano Miravel, or better at the current exchange rate, step up to Stradic for Shimano entry-level worm drive, or just a little more for lighter-frame Vanford. https://www.jpfishingtacklenews.com/shimano-stradic-19/ Here's a shallow Shimano Yumeya F3 aftermarket spool for mid-frame (S-20) Shimano, 2500, C3000 https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/4372 This is what I do to match my mid-frame and large frame Shimano reels with shallow braid spools.

I own a Steez and a Vanquish. My Steez is tuned for salt finesse, and I fish it on a Yamaga Blanks rod. The magnesium frame and max number of bearings makes the Steez light and smooth, and good match for a 73-g rod. I own a Vanquish C2000S. Without question, it is the best finesse spinning reel. Also on a Yamaga Blanks rod. You can feel the wind inertia difference, which has no resistance to start, and the reel does not keep pushing your hand when you stop winding. @roadwarrior It's lighter than Stella because of the alloy gears vs. stainless, plus a lightened rotor - otherwise, it's the same, and comes off the same Japan bench. The mass difference in the drive gives it lower wind inertia than Stella. You couldn't guess without having the reels side-by-side.

Any time you're fishing threadline braid, shallow spool to get the right capacity with the line diameter is most important. This is how you get good line management (look at my photos above again). Last October, I let my buddy borrow the reel and line I show above (C2000SHG, YGK PE#0.8) to fish on his new salt finesse rod. He was giddy with the light-lure casts he was getting - said he wouldn't have guessed that cast distance was even possible. He went home and bought two just like it.

all Japan X-braids are made by Izanas - 80% of the strength is in a center high-strength strand, with outer fibers for abrasion resistance. They're made from finer fibers, tighter weave, and fused thinner when outer FEP coating is applied. Sufix 832 At 0.18 mm, Sufix is 8-lb, Japan X-braid is 20-24-lb.

You're going in the right direction. Thinner braid casts better. You can always upgrade the braid to Varivas or YGK to get 16-20-lb in the same diameter and capacity as the rated 8 lb.

horse hockey - no one's feelings were hurt - the thread apparently trolled out exactly as intended. Gee, I can make the reel backlash if I don't set up the brake. Your Lew's will do the same thing - when you find incipient backlash, set the brake a notch lower.

ok, back for a simple editorial. Anyone is going to like any reel that tunes properly in their niche for it. Tuning it incorrectly is no excuse for lambasting the reel. I would probably still be buying Lew's if anyone offered a range of spool options for them. (I did buy a second Super Duty G two years ago). Zillion is a vastly versatile reel, partly because of Daiwa's patented brake/spool design, partly because of exceptional aftermarket spools available for it.

Wrong. Take back the last mag notch, and you're 100% set. enjoy your thread - i'm outta here

You could have asked what you were doing wrong. You proved I don't like this number is an ineffective way to set up a reel. Mine casts 1/8 oz into next week on 8, but not because of the number.

This thread began with promise - I'm taking these 2 reels fishing. Then it went polar - dump on Zillion. If anything was so bad, it wouldn't be in the market. We're generally the last group that's going to hype something, and most of us can find the right niche for any piece of tackle.

d**n ugly reel. A new twist on the fanboy thread, spinning Vs. baitcasting, etc. BTW, next time you see VS on a thread title, read same old BS. Susceptibility to marketing hype seems to be a generational thing, as in, I wouldn't know what I need if they didn't tell me. If you know what you need, you don't think about what they say.

Having a preference is a good thing. Uninventing physics to justify a preference is hokey. Maybe the problem was google translate.

Until I discovered new Japan glass for small water kayak rods, the very best glass bass rod I had ever fished was Falcon Classic (I come from Berkley TriSport and Fenglas Lunkerstik). Narrow rated lure range of 1/4 to 1/2 oz gives away it's para taper. Casting 1/8 to 3/8, it's a glory. But at its rated 1/2 oz top end and, if you tried going beyond, it turns into a slinky. @Bankc - no way to snap-cast this rod w/ heavy weight - you'll just be waving at yourself. Otherwise, it loads deep, and casts a looong way. Also good for snappy hook sets, because the flex isn't in the tip.

I buy my rods to fish in the bottom-third of their lure-weight rating. I have a couple of rods that are comfortable fishing in the top-third of their lure-weight range. I used this overlay rod load curves photo, identical lure-weight range in two rods, to show Eric the difference between progressive and para rod taper. The progressive rod is going to feel more comfortable pushing its max weight - the para rod will feel like the end of the world is coming at max weight. If your lure weight under-loads the rod, btw, you'll find your cast going off to the side in the direction of your rod swing - should be using a lighter rod.

Heavier braid has more surface tension and friction leaving the spool, so hokey. There would be no reason to use threadline braid if it didn't improve cast distance. With a baitcaster, you can reduce spool mass and inertia, needing less brake. People knew this 100 years ago. One difference could be on a deep spool, 80 yds of 60-lb braid weighs less than 650 yards of 10-lb braid.

@waymont The capacity is greater than Daiwa lists, really a perfect spool for 20-lb braid, especially Varivas PE#1. Last October redfish rodeo, 5 days, pretty much caught everything on it. Very good casting 1/8 oz. Will cast lighter, and will also cast much heavier without any adjustment. If you've never used Daiwa SV, you set the mag brake for light lure and wind backlash, and the SV takes care of all the heavy stuff. LW pitch is increased so you can go to really fine threadline braid without ever a line-dig worry.

I once found a discontinued and discounted Livre single handle closing out at Plat. A $29 short Gomexus carbon double handle on ebay. Turns out Gomexus copied Livre (except for the titanium). Mix-and-match short double with Livre post, Gomexus handle, and Avail knobs. Perfect match on low-geared JDM 1000S Inexpensive Tsubaki hook keeper with the matching carbon _____________________ First Gomexus handle I bought, I was setting up a Tica Caiman on offshore slow jigging rod. The handle Tica offered was all stainless steel, and weighed another reel. This was another inexpensive handle, $15 on Amazon, and came with a 35-g pot-metal knob. All to match an inexpensive Jigging World spiral-wrapped rod. Swap to a Livre EP37 knob turned this into a really nice jigging combo with zero torsion on your hand when you're fishing. (a niche I don't fish often enough to justify a Conquest 200).

BTW, if you go way back, topwater dog-walking plugs were the very first lures fished for bass in America. The term dog-walking was coined by Paw-Paw Lure Co. in 1918. In his 1881 tome, Book of the Black Bass, Doc Henshall called dog-walking "The Bob", and described then that Florida bass fishermen had already been using them for 100 years. Appropriate photo - this is a Chubb Henshall bass rod and c. 1910 Bluegrass 33 8'3" - Doc also takes credit for designing the first bass rod under 12'

I've always had this thing for topwater lures that still make action at rest. When I was 19, caught my first big bass, 6-1/2 lbs, on a yellow Jitterbug in a long rest. Suckered her out to the middle of a bowl-shaped cove, 50+' visibility, using more pause than retrieve. These are Japan wood plugs, not exactly latest purchases, but assembled over 6 mo or so, when I was buying other things in Japan. Clockwise, GaullaCraft Baby Shake Hip (basic squarebill) 7/16 oz; Ninna Mofri, which blows me away for sit-still action; Less is More Lim's Morphie; Life Bait Flap Frog. The big plugs are all about 21-23 g (up to 3/4 oz). I will fish these, maybe not hard, certainly for effect and fun.

I'm talking to Shane about that same blank as a 3-pc BFS UL pack-rod blade for my new Bright River short-grip offset handle, which is made in Japan for round reels. They call this reelseat an eyespot (only SS grip in stock when I ordered) - there's a spring-loaded rotating pocket that clamps on the reel foot. I ended up in the rod market because a friend gave me a gift trade on a '78 4500C that I've always wanted to race out - it's the only Ambassadeur model that can use IXA 1033 double ball bearings. Thought about selling the reel, but it's too nice to let go. It proved to be the fastest reel I've built yet. Found a place to put it on the Bright River Concorde 5' MM glass rod blade. And it's a really pretty rod. The blank is half black, half red So now I have a triumvirate for bass fishing wide, slow spots in hill country aquifer recharge rivers from kayak. 6' MH graphite for frogging, 5' glass MM for plugs, 5-1/2' glass ML for finesse spinnerbaits and micro-plugs. Close fishing, seated in kayak. All these combos skip-cast with aplomb, for getting under cypress overhang. Downriver, the ancient dam is stacked with lilly pads.