M0xxie

Just looking for a good way to snap their heads off and chum the brook. Kids are gonna SEE faces of goldfish getting bug whipped into bloody quarters on halloween. I wanted to know my plan would work from cast ONE, and kind of whip bait fishing into a frothy little firework you crack in the air, so of course I contacted the experts, Muahahahaha! Happy Halloween

Sure! What about drop shotting goldfish on a fly rod with a roll cast? Barbed hooks on size 1 with bobber stops on double palomar -- almost like sabiki (sp).

I'll only be wanting info on live bait. Can't brand live bait, can you, "Berkly" (Berkley)?

How about a roll cast with minnow, inside of 17-15 feet?

Culling time is here, and just looking for a way to catch a lot of eatable fish quickly. Any fly fisherman here? Can someone run an experiment for me? If I (or you) nose-hooked a live minnow on a barbless hook with a bobber-stop on a tapered-leadered fly line off a fly rod, would that bait be alive enough to swim with overhead shooting type cast (no more than 50' with little/no splitshot)? Would the minnow just whip off the hook? Salt water fly fishermen, you ever do this? I believe it's legal in my state, after thru last-updated regulations dated 2015. Thinking of also trying a live minnow on drop shot with fly rod -- has anyone tried THAT before? Results? I think I'd tend to use a palomar for dshot, but open to dropper loop, though that might cast worse. Last question: has anyone dropshotted a lake with live wax worms for shellcracker or pumpkinseeds on a fly rod?

Have you tried weightless wacky style on a weedless hook? Stogie worms have a lot of salt imbued in the plastic, so they'll always sink, and without a weight or jig head it's practically impossible to get stuck in the rocks. I can recommend using clear heat shrink tubing instead of o-rings to keep the hook from tearing out in the current, which is always the problem with stogies -- they use a softer plastic blend than other baits, plus the salt further weakens the plastic. I like the weightless style because it prolongs the fall, but if you do need to add weight, I'd use a neko/nail weight.

In a word, look for "rocks": rocky bluffs, boulders, big rocks, riprap, gravel, cobble, sandy bottom. Rocky bottom with overhanging trees downstream from broken water is A+ habitat. Some sources: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a323294.pdf https://kb.osu.edu/bitstream/handle/1811/37010/1/20071201-AEL-SteinR-Habitat.pdf https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8659(1970)99<44%3AMADOSB>2.0.CO%3B2 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02705060.2015.1025867 https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/jrnl/2002/nc_2002_bozek_001.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1bd6/58fe7db15f97da882a5779ef4b25d533669d.pdf "What kind of depth, bottom composition, current, turbidity, and structure should I be looking for?" Rocks provide important habitat factors all at once: shelter, less turbid water, current breaks, shade, oxygenation (if rock breaks water surface), temperature regulation, forage areas for prey, etc...you could go out and look for each factor individually, or just find the rocks!

I guess it depends on what the river bottom looks like, but I tend to fish live crawdads up off the bottom for the first few casts because I target rocks for smallmouth -- if craws stay on the bottom too long, they burrow between the rocks where they get stuck, or mangled, or screw up your leader. If I don't get bit right away, I'll let him crawl on the bottom longer. Jigging works, but if you've body or tail hooked the craw, he's not likely to stay on as long in the current or withstand repeated jigging and recasts. I use a hair band, wrap it around his thorax, then put the hook point under the band pointing to the tail, and that way he stays livelier for longer. Here is some advice for live craws from "The Machine" on youtube, hope it helped you like it did me

In rivers/creeks, I've had a lot of luck with Johnson's Crappie Buster SpinR Grub, which is an under-spin jig with a curly tail grub, but I also use Berkley's Gulp minnows. Sometimes I put it on a jig spinner for some extra flash/vibration. They're made for crappie, but the bronzies don't care. For lakes my go-to would be a weedless wacky-rigged 4" or 5" stick worm with shrink tubing (I hate o-rings) -- I like the Trokar weedless wacky hook in a 1/0, or if you like the safety-pin-style weed-guard, the Gamakatsu's aren't too bad (except for the price) -- tend not to fish wacky as much in the river because the plastic is so soft, and they rip in the current, even with the tubing.

It usually more like 3/8s exposure, but yeah, definately dont fill to the rim.

A really good start to this thread, fellas -- enjoying all of responses -- and thanks for voting, too The part I like most is your guys' reasoning behind why you do or don't barb -- everyone has a different approach and has differing conditions and regulations that influence choices.

One thing I forgot to mention, I tend to keep my spools slightly under-filled because it exposes the sides of the spool, which is more comfortable for me to thumb-brake on than having my thumb entirely on the line itself, especially if you're touching braid all day. Instead of thumbing entirely down on the line, I'm mashing the spool to the left to knock it against the bearings or tensioner, depending on your reel design/handedness. Any one else under-fill their baitcasters?

Kinetic baits, like cranks, are the hooks I'm most likely to crimp, since you just keep reeling to set the hook and you can just keep tension on the line and keep them pinned that way, which you're doing already just by reeling. Also good point about fish size, since smaller mouths give you less space to disgorge. I guess bait-holder hooks would be the hooks I would be least likely to crimp, since you need the barb to hold your live bait on. Danger zone for losing a fish on barbless is after you get them out of the water and before theyre in your hand or net. Also, I know the wary feeling of "hey I just bought this lure and now I'm gonna 'ruin' it by crimping the barbs?" First of all, factory hooks are kind of trash anyway; and it takes, what, 2 mins to replace crimped hooks back to barbed? Glad thread has you thinking about it, because we're just kind of born into barbed hooks, just like dad and grandpa and great grandpa were, without really questioning barbed hook use -- I mean I've fished for 3 decades before I even considered it as an option. Good luck, and tight lines

Yikes, looks like that was in your heel? Agreed, it's probably better to cut the barbless hook and push it through anyway, if you have side-cutters handy, and you make a good point because when you crimp the barb down, theres still a little knob left which can still help keep fish (or you) pinned-on.

TLDR I was wondering about your guys’ opinions on crimping-down hook barbs. Do you? Don’t you? Always? Sometimes? Never? Why or why not? So I’ve been crimping my barbs on some of my hooks. It started when I was unhooking a bleeder (largemouth), and the barb was obviously causing a lot of damage; it ended up ripping a big blood vessel in his throat, and I wasn’t comfortable releasing him. I do harvest some juvenile eating-sized black bass, but usually in the fall (to thin the schools, so the larger breeders have a better shot at surviving the winter) but I didn’t have my cooler with me, so I ended up cutting my fishing trip short so I could go home and clean him (it was a really hot day). If that barb hadn’t been there, that largie prrrobably would have survived. Probably. Now then, getting philosophical (and just a bit political), I really dislike state policies that mandate barbless hooks — I tend to be vvvery libertarian-minded on most political issues, and I’m sure a lot of you are also. If you’re an adult, you do what want, when you want, as long as you aren’t hurting others or their property and you accept full responsibility for your actions. So I’m definately against barbless mandates, bbbut there are some advantages to barbless. And if you disagree, that's not only fine, it's encouraged. I’ve been an avid fisherman since I was a little kid, I’m in my mid-30’s now, and I’ve NEVER hooked myself past the barb, knock on wood. I’ve had friends that have hooked themselves, and it kind of puts a damper on the day if we get it out, or ends the trip then and there. One of my friends in high school had a pike shake and put the hook perfectly around and underneath a vein in the back of his hand. Surprisingly, not a lot of blood, because it missed the vein and the pike had popped-off the treble, thankfully — there was no going to the “fishing line trick” to snap the hook out on that one. My sister is an eye surgeon, and I finally had to have her stop discussing hook-in-eye injuries with me. She sees cases not too often when she’s on call, but not infrequently in the summertime, so if you’re feeling brave, go search “fishing hooks in eyeball” images online (you’ll never leave your sunglasses on the tailgate again). You can imagine that if you get hooked in the eye, it’s never going to be the same again, and according to her they never are. We would all like our hook sets to be in the roof of the bass’ mouth, but it’s not always happening that way. My understanding is that if you tear a big enough hole in thin cheek membranes, they rarely heal shut (according to a fisheries biologist I’ve talked to) — some people say differently — I think those that say, “oh yeah, no big deal, those big rips heal up in a week” — I’d like to see their evidence. They say that because they realize they’re handicapping those fish — fish that have a giant hole in their cheek can’t suck-up baitfish as well as those that don’t — the suction is reduced by up to 34% on average ( https://jeb.biologists.org/content/221/19/jeb180935 ). If the rip is big enough, I just cull those fish now, too. Again, I don’t have a problem killing fish, but it’s just an inconvenience if you didn’t bring a stringer or a cooler with you, and I refuse to not eat any animal I kill (including mosquitoes and roadkill…just kidding [though I have actually eaten roadkill]). And we’ve all had hooks in our clothing before, I’m guessing. Barbless, you just pull them out, no big deal. Have I lost fish on barbless? Well of course, but I can count on one hand the number of fish that got away since I started this experiment last season. I think it also makes playing the fish in more engaging because you have to constantly figure out the best angle to hold your rod for the best line tension. There are a lot of hooks that I don’t crimp — for different reasons. Like if I dropshot a nosehooked fluke, I wont crimp because that barb holds the plastic on there. Or if I want to land more fish than my buddies. Or I want some bluegill for flathead bait. Or I forgot my pliers in the truck. Or maybe I just don’t want to. But I’ve honestly probably lost just as many fish on barbed hooks during this experiment, too. And do we honestly have to land EVERY fish we catch? Isn’t the fight what we're doing it for, and if you get her in close enough and she pops off, it’s like, “hey, good fight, you did me a favor, actually”? Sometimes if you’re catching them one after the other, back to back to back casts, quick release is better -- just put some slack in the line. So those are just some of my thoughts. Curious about your thoughts about barbless, now.

Smallmouth -- they're just too much fun because they're so aggressive and curious, it's easy to get a bite, and once they do, LOOK out! Also, there's little vegetation around the rocks I like to fish, so I'm not pulling weeds off my lure every cast (not that largies only live in weeds [or smallies live only in rocks]). Habitat access close to my house is mostly riverine, and I just find fishing current a lot more tactical and engaging than fishing lakes. If I have a bad day, I can walk to the creek and let my cares drift away with the current!

Baitcasting is about training your thumb -- most backlashes occur because of improper settings for whatever size lure you're using, true, but even if you don't have reel tuned properly, you can nearly always avoid a backlash with a "smart thumb" instead of a "dumb thumb". Use your thumb as an extra set of breaks to feather the spool during cast, and then clamp down with thumb to stop the spool completely just before the lure hits the water, which makes for a less noisy entry that's less likely to spook fish, as well as stops overrun. If you can feel line coming off too fast, you can always just abort the cast with thumb pressure, reel in, readjust, and try again. Also during your cast, if you hold rod so that the spool's axis is vertical, instead of horizontal, this seems to prevent a lot of backlash, too.

I was always taught to cast upstream and work the bait down with the current because it looks more natural, at least for a baitfish-imitating presentation (maybe, who knows for sure), which makes enough sense to me to keep doing it (as long as I'm catching them). Most of the bass you see have their noses oriented INTO the current, so they're more likely to see your lure that way. I've caught them both ways, so in the end maybe it doesn't really matter to a hungry bass, so who knows, but MY preference is to start bank fishing downstream and walk upstream, casting upstream and working the bait downstream, and have had good luck doing it that way.

Is this the same smalljaw from youtube (https://www.youtube.com/user/smalljaw/videos)? Some really great ties/lure designs on that channel, regardless. So you might actually land some smallmouth from the "pothole" zone, you mention, with the faster current; as you say in your reply, though, there tend to be more fish located in the third area you mentioned where the water is less broken where they can set up looking in on the seam/break while conserving energy, so I think we're in agreement there. The eddy, the pool, the backbreak is the area where I'm going to start before targeting the pothole zone. If I was targeting trout, it would be just the reverse. In the example I was giving, the area with the laydowns and no bites actually had faster flow with more broken water than the areas with the riprap bank. My point was smallmouth generally don't behave like trout, wherein trout will primarily be located in broken water/heavier current/riffles. Seasonally, we know water levels/flow can vary significantly in rivers and streams -- and higher flows with increased turbidity can actually be detrimental to smallmouth development -- however smallmouth affinity for boulder/cobble/gravel substrate doesn't seem to change very much, seasonally or over their lifespan. TL;DR: Don't limit yourself to fishing broken water/riffles for smallmouth. Sources: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a323294.pdf https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02705060.2015.1025867 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8659(1970)99<44%3AMADOSB>2.0.CO%3B2 https://kb.osu.edu/bitstream/handle/1811/37010/1/20071201-AEL-SteinR-Habitat.pdf https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/jrnl/2002/nc_2002_bozek_001.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1bd6/58fe7db15f97da882a5779ef4b25d533669d.pdf https://www.bemidjistate.edu/directory/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2014/10/Hafs-A_-W_-2007_-Smallmouth-bass-survival-movement-and-habitat-use-in-response-to-seasonally-discontinuous-surface-flow_-Ma.pdf https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a323294.pdf

So full disclosure, I haven't fished many of these areas I'm about to mention -- I've been doing some research online in preparation for a trip up thataway. That's kind of how I found this thread. Anyway, the map I attached is from the Minnesota DNR -- maybe you've seen it already -- the area I was interested in were were the lakes that form that kind of a "C" shape (in yellow) northwest of the Cities -- looks like west of 94 on the way to St. Cloud -- so that's Kandiyohi, Meeker, and Sterns Counties. Those lakes around Willmar look pretty good, and there are at least 3 bait shops in that area that might tell you more... https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fishing/bass/index.html Minnetonka just gets fished to death, but the map says smallmouth live there, I guess. But I might focus some of those bigger lakes in that area for smallmouth, since more water means more current and more oxygen, essential for smallmouth habitat. Lakes Koronis, Green, and Washington would be my choice. But good luck, and tight lines.

Shaded, rocky areas. So I was out today on a small creek in a wooded area, the entire stretch was shaded, and I started out on an area that has a lot of rip-rapped bank. Caught 3 right off the bat. Continued fishing upstream along a sandbar around some laydown logs -- the bottom was sand/mud mix with no boulders. No bites. Must have been there 20 mins fishing what I considered to be good cover, and continued upstream where there was more rip-rap. Exactly (and I mean EXACTLY) where where the bank transitioned from sand/mud to rip-rap I caught 4 more in short succession. Smallmouth fishing means finding boulders and starting there. Yes, smallmouth need more oxygenated water than other species, and ideally there would be some whitewater upstream, but they're not like trout (in there, battling the heavy current for hours on end). All other things being equal, find the boulders and you find smallmouth.

So I'm looking for some information on what pound test braided line I need to bend-out snagged hooks. Obviously it's going to differ for the size/gauge of the hook, plus whatever it's stuck in. And of course 100# or greater will do the job on just about any hook. I guess I'm looking for lightest braid I can use to bend-out, say, a 3/0 superline EWG hook. Whether it's stuck in submerged wood or rock (or the occasional tree ?) might be another variable...Anyone ever done any tests? Also, I carry a hand towel with me to jerk on the line directly, in such occasions, so I don't break my rod -- I'm comfortable using heavier pound test than whatever rod I'm using was designed for. Kind of makes me sick to break-off snagged lures -- not just because I want to get the lure back -- but because potentially some ex post facto fish is going to consider it to be food and give him a bad month...or several months, if it lives it that long...I just REALLY don't like leaving lures out there...