jmoore020965

So in your experience the chatterbait and rattle trap will both excel in grass, but the crank will excel in any cover. Any theories as to why? Also, any theories as to why the trap stops working for you after early spring but the chatterbait stays strong?

I was honestly just being silly and trying to emphasize how grateful I was that you took the time to answer the question. I didn't expect a thankful dirty joke to offend the person I was thanking.

Look- I never said they were the same bait and I never said they would work in the same situations. I just *want to know *how they are different*, and *what specific situations* one would excel over the other. I have gotten a few helpful answers, but the vast majority have answered the questions like this- Q:How are they different? A:Everything Q:When would you use one over the other? A:In different situations

So you don't get as stoked on the theory of why it works as I do. Fine. Have fun "culling into the money" while I have fun thinking and learning about lure theory. Have you noticed that a white senko fails in that situation, or do you just throw black because you usually use black senkos?

A-Jay sorry but you're wrong. I honestly expressed *my own opinion* that if you can't acknowledge the glaring similarities (that doesn't mean they're the same!!) then you're either not looking or you're confused. Either way, *personally* I find those people's contribution to the conversation pointless, and *personally* would not like them to crowd the conversation. I had only hoped that they would take that piece of information and simply stay out of the conversation at their own will, but I know I can't stop them against their will. If I had suggested they weren't *allowed* to contribute I would be nuts, and wrong.I am arguing with people who say they don't have *similarities* because clearly they do. Some people have entered the conversation acknowledging them, others have entered the conversation denying them. I get it if you would never use them in the same situation, but that doesnt mean they don't have some common important attributes. There are literally people saying they don't have common attributes at all, and those are the people who I can't help but say "you're wrong" to.

Okay, next time you throw a white popper into a school of shad on the surface, tell yourself that.

Thank you! Ive heard and read everyone suggesting to slow roll the chatterbait on the bottom, but honestly 80% of my chatterbait fish have come from me running it like a wake bait near grass edges, burning it/bulging it for that reaction strike. So maybe that's why my perspective on chatterbait fishing is different from others.

This is why I give up.

If someone asked you, what baits represent a vibrating/swimming baitfish, what answers could give them other than: Crankbait Rattle trap Chatterbait Scrounger jig Paddle tail soft plastic/other vibrating soft plastics The scrounged and soft plastics don't have nearly as much action, so that leaves the top 3. I'm *not* saying that means they're the same bait, but it doesn't get much more similar than that.

If someone asked you, what baits represent a vibrating/swimming baitfish, what answers could give them other than: Crankbait Rattle trap Chatterbait Scrounger jig Paddle tail soft plastic/other vibrating soft plastics The scrounged and soft plastics don't have nearly as much action, so that leaves the top 3. I'm *not* saying that means they're the same bait, but it doesn't get much more similar than that.

Jon G, let's start with this, they're both great search baits. Yes? You say you would use a vibration jig anywhere anytime. So does this include in grass flats in the fall and spring? If you're looking at a grass flat in the fall or spring, and you've got a vibration jig, and a rattle trap right in front of you. One rod. What goes through your mind when deciding between the two? At this point I assume it's the rattling, that would make you want to choose a rattle trap. So is there a reason you only use a rattle trap in spring and fall that you know of? Is the rattling too much noise in other seasons? I just want to get into the meat of the theory here, because I genuinely enjoy it. Guys- I'm not trying to be a ******, I'm just trying to pick your brain, starting with what I know to be true. I know that cranks, traps, and chatters are the only 3 baits *I've ever used* that have that much horizontal side to side wobbling/vibrating action. This is true. If that doesn't make them at least "similar" then we must have different definitions of the word. I know that all three are great search baits for active fish. Of course they're different. I never ever disagreed with anyone's point that they will each work better in certain situations, I only disagreed with people who blatantly overlooked the above true statements.

I take that back- I am arguing with the people who say there aren't similarities. I did not suggest that anyone wasn't allowed to express their thoughts, just that I personally, would rather they not. Clearly they have similarities. More similarities than most lures. If you cannot acknowledge that, then I probably won't listen to your opinion because they simply do have many similarities. If you disagree with that starting point I don't find your opinion to be credible.

But if you can't enter the conversation at least *acknowledging* their similarities, no, we're not going to have a productive conversation

I'm asking. Not arguing. No one has explained when or why a fish might prefer one over the other, just that they will.

If you can't see the similarities, I would personally prefer you not participate in this conversation. A chatterbait is clearly the closest jig-based alternative to a crankbait that exists (unless you can name one closer). If you can't see that you're not looking.

I just want to know if they're so different, when would you use the two? Other than fishability reasons (treble hooks vs jig hook etc.) You guys are acting like this isn't a valid question.

Scroungers are close but their action is more of a vibrating barrel roll. They don't "swing" side to side so much as "rotate" side to side which doesn't move nearly the same amount of water as a crank or chatterbait' side to side swing. Kind of a "finesse" cranking jig. Consider this- so many people consider a chatterbait to be interchangeable with a spinnerbait. Why? It stands to reason that a chatter bait has a lot more in common with a crankbait. Is this theory completely lost on all you guys?

Look at it in the water- it's not just "action"- it's the same action as a trap or crank. Side to side swimming action. Those are the only two classes of bait that offer that same action. Seriously guys? I think I'm about to give up on this with you guys. PS I never said they were the same, I just said they have many similar elements.

So you don't think that a lipless crank is more similar to a chatterbait than say a jerkbait or texas rig? PS I have had a ton of luck burning, yo-yoing, starting and stopping, etc with a chatterbait. It seems fish ALSO like it slow, more-so than a trap, and my theory for that is it has more lifelike action and appearance, so when you slow a trap down, the fish get a good look at it, and aren't as interested. That's just my experience though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CUSTOM-MADE-DEEP-DIVING-CHATTERBAITS-BIGBASSBAITS-NET-FISHING-LURE-CHATTERBAITS-/181741515728 I just did a search for "diving chatterbait" to see if there was a good solution to get more action on the downward dive, such as in a standard crankbait, and I happened to come up with this ebay listing. ",BRAND NEW CUSTOM HAND PAINTED AND MADE PROFESSIONAL TOURNAMENT WINNING CHATTERBAITS-DEEP DIVERS.THE HOTEST BAIT EVERY SERIOUS FISHERMEN IS USING HERES THE SECRET INSTEAD OF THOWING DEEP DIVING CRANKBAITS ALL SUMMER SWITCH TO A HEAVY MODEL DEEP RUNNING WEEDLESS SUPER SHARP CHATTERBAIT.CHOSE BETWEEN 3/4 OR 1 OUNCE IN FOUR DIFFRENT COLORS WE ARE PRO GUIDES FISHING THE FAMOUS LAKE GUNTERSVILLE AND THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR USING OUR DEEP RUNNING CHATTERBAITS AND WE ARE CATCHING GIANT BASS EVERY DAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS BAIT DEEP!!!!! .We are on the lakes everyday andnot only USE these baits but we have Bassmaster elite pros throwing them." Not saying that vendors won't lie, but I don't think I'm the crazy one here. If heavy chatterbaits work as well as deep diving cranks, then it would make sense that a standard chatterbait will work as well as rattle trap. Obviously there are differences, but I cannot agree that they are "two completely different baits with completely different uses."

I just cannot imagine how any of you guys can say that a chatterbait is all that different from a lipless crank. Its not just about the noise, its about the side to side action, the fact that its representing a baitfish, and yes, its noisy. I'm not saying they're exactly the same and they work exactly the same in the same situations. I'm saying they have a very similar side to side action, they both make a fair amount of HF and LF noise, and I have no clue what situations one would work better over the other. That's why I'm asking. As far as fishability is concerned, the chatterbait wins out every time for me because of the upward turned single hook (I'm always throwing my search baits into the gunk, I can't imagine fishing any other way.) ...It's a simple question- *when would you* choose rattle trap, *when would you* choose a chatterbait. If you guys would seriously never consider them to be useful in the same situations, then which situations would each excel in for you?

Exactly! I do a lot of kayak fishing and bank fishing. And I've found that when you simplify your system, it makes lure selection so much simpler and easier, you spend more time fishing and you're more confident in your choice of lure. I like the flat Plano boxes with a big open section for spinnerbaits and such.

If you had to fit all your lures into one flat Plano box, what would it hold? Keep in mind the different seasons and conditions, you'll want to try to have something for all of the following variables and combinations thereof- fast/slow, topwater/middle/bottom, loud/quiet, colors, water temp, etc. Mine would include -paddle tail minnow type baits -beaver/craw type baits. (Rigged sideways is a great baitfish) -EWG hooks -octopus hooks -keel weighted swimbait hooks for swimming or jigging the above soft plastics -chatterbait, spinnerbait, buzzbait in the bulk storage part, using the above soft plastics to trail. -slip sinkers for Texas rigging -dropshot sinkers -extra skirts for different colors. (Z-man EZ skirts!) That system seems to be the most versatile for the amount of space it takes up. I just wish there was a way to apply those same soft plastics to topwater more thoroughly. Sure buzzbaits are great topwater but if I could throw my existing soft plastics on topwater similar to a popper or spook somehow, I could make a craw bait double as a topwater frog, etc etc. For now I guess a frog or two wouldn't hurt.

Haha that's true- and in the end that's my goal. Maybe that means different things for you and me. For you it means take the information as it's presented to you. For me it means simplify the system as much as possible by eliminating redundancy and inefficient designs in every area possible. Yes this requires more thought and theory, but that's what I get stoked on so I don't mind. Regardless, both of us are attempting to keep it simple, just with different definitions of what simple means. I'm also only a few years into serious bass fishing, so I'm trying to understand as much as possible. This type of analyzing helps me understand.

Look at it this way- if you had a sinking hard lure that didn't vibrate or rattle, you would probably never use it over a swim jig. That is where my line of thinking starts, and I'm trying to follow it down the line to different hard bodied lures and see how much it holds up. I'm not suggesting *necessarily* it holds up all the way to this convo, but on some level it does, and I'd like to see some seasoned vets' input on specific advantages and disadvantages.