Further North

Sure there is: Cubic dollars. ? I believe that's the way Mr. Shelby said it...

Cool project. I'm not sure that I'd bother to upgrade a motor that is as new as yours is, but I can see why you're doing it. I'd like the the switch from 2 stroke to 4 stroke. If you had to summarize your prime motivations, what might they be?

Of course...I don't think I've ever seen you pass judgement...

I don't understand this...

Well...we encourage people to search before they ask a question ...so we don't "waste" our time answering questions that've already been asked. We can't have it both ways...

Exactly the same thing I've decided. I love the look of them, and the center console (though it may stick up too high), but the storage issue is a biggie. For me, vertical rod holders are awful. It's not a matter of if I'm going to hit one on a back cast, it's when I'll do it. I tried vertical rod holders in a former boat, hit them three times the first weekend...they were out and I was back to horizontal storage by the next weekend. If you can make them work for you, and you like them, I'd see them as an advantage. I'd fish that in a heartbeat. I dislike carpet...a lot. I agree. When I see "flats" boat", I think of fiberglass, designed to run in really skinny water...and able to get up on plane in that same skinny water. By "skinny water" I mean a foot or less.

It sounds like your targeting bass and picking up "bonus" pike. I'd go with the lighter action rod under those circumstances. Odds are slim you'll tie into a pike bigger than 3 ft. whule your chasing bass, and that'll diminish as the water warms up and the big girls go deep. Not sure where you are, but around here we've had a weird start to the season. We had ice on our lakes three days before the opener...then water temps shot up to the mid 60s in the next week and a half. Big pike will be shallow right around ice out, muskies a bit after that. With the weird start to our season here, there's been a lot of big esox shallow so far, but with air temps in the low 90s this weekend, that's gonna come to a screeching halt...

I was thinking the same about my boat...except my dry hull is about 1,300...that thing'd sink it like a rock... That's kinda where I was going with car engines. Ford gets 350 HP, 350 ft. lbs of torque, out of a 2261 cc intercooled, turbocharged, 4 banger...in a fully warrantied street car...

Yup. I was just reacting to the folks who say that medium will "get the job done". It will, but it won't be pretty and he needs to be prepared to kill the fish.

I thought I'd take a moment to clarify. I'm a pike guy. I'll take musky, even fish for them specifically at times...I caught 20 last season, and well over 100 pike. That's just to establish boanfides, so folks know where I'm coming from. I don't chase 50" fish. Honestly, they bore me. Most of them are like catching a log, with a lotta lifting and grunting...not my thing, though I learn a lot form folks who go after them. My target fish is some kind of esox, between about 36" and 48". they offer me the best combination of challenge and excitement. Other folks will vary from that, and that's cool...to quote a guy with really big forearms: I yam what I yam." Given the above, and skipping my fly gear because it'll just confuse the issue, here's my two key rigs: Casting: Temple Forks Outfiters GTS P797 (that's 7 ft, 9", XH, line wt. 12 - 30#, lure wt, 1/2 oz. - 2 oz.), there's a Shimano Calais DC on the rod, that holds more line than any esox will ever run out and has plenty of drag for fish up to 50", so far. Spinning: Temple Forks Outfiters GTS TR HSS884-2 (that's 8 ft, 8", Mag M, line wt. 10 - 20#, lure wt, 3/4 oz. - 3 oz.), there's a Cabela's Tournement ZX 4000 reel on there, not because it's best reel ever, but because it balances the rod and gets the job done, again up to 50", so far. Both carry 65# braid to 30# Tyger Leader with Mustad Fastach clips...cuz I like 'em. Both will throw a 1 ounce spoon about half way to Mars, on a calm day. Further point of clarification: I'm not a spinning rig guy, with a few exceptions, all bass and all super finesse that simply aren't fun to fish with a baitcasting rig, for me. That TFO GTS TR HSS884-2 is on the boat when there is a spinning rig guy with me for one reason and one reason only: A few years back, my brother was throwing a 3/4 Daredevel for pike on Lake of the Woods with a 7 ft. medium action St. Croix rod. A 45" Musky came up and ate that spoon, and it took him the better part of a half hour to get her to the boat. Once we saw her, we'd have been delighted if she'd thrown the bait...but it was wedged in the corner of her jaw and that wasn't gonna happen. We got her to the boat, unhooked her...and spent the next hour rejuvenating her. She finally swam away under her own power, just under the surface...I wish I could say I was 100% certain she survived, but I'd be lying if I did. I'd call it 50% - 50%. Had my brother hooked that big girl on that TFO GTS TR HSS884-2, we'd have had her at the boat in minutes, taken a picture, spent 10 minutes making sure she was OK, and been virtually certain of her survival. I firmly believe, "Use enough rod", and I'll argue passionately that we shouldn't target 3 ft. esox and above with anything less than it takes to get the job done...and by get the job done, I mean get that fish to the boat in 5 minutes or less. Is it a different game when we're targeting bass and hook a pike or musky because they are there? You bet, and it'd be ignorant of me to suggest otherwise. Sorry to get on a soapbox, but as you've all likely figured out, I've spent a lot of time on this and am pretty confident about where I'm coming from.

In my head, it depends on what fish you're targeting with that rig. If you're after bass and will take pike...choose lighter action. If you're after pike and will take bass (what I tend to do, most days) go the other way 'round. A big pike it's going to spool you out...but they can be amazingly resistant to attempts to bring them in unless you're rigged for it. By "big pike" I mean fish that are 3 ft. long and bigger...and probably 40" and bigger. They weigh in excess of 15 lbs, unless there's something weird going on... That's a 37" fish. She weighed north of 20 pounds. I'm really glad I didn't try to pull her in with a medium action rod...not because it wouldn't have been fun...but because I didn't want to stress her out, or possibly kill her. I want her DNA back in the lake for years to come. YMMV, and while I am OK with that...I can't support it...if that makes any sense... There are hundreds, probably thousands, of folks who have lucked into a big pike or musky on a walleye rig, or a bass set-up. That's cool...but what tends to get ignored when celebrating that is that for every single one of those, there are hundreds, if not thousands of bite-offs, broken lines and lost lures for folks who never even get to see the fish, and plenty of folks who see them but never net them. To paraphrase a line from a movie I like: "Just because we can doesn't mean we should." Use enough rod.

I haven't read the other responses...but I'm gonna wing it here: I hate tying Palomar knots. Can't articulate why, I just find them difficult. Might be a "fine motor skills" thing, but I doubt it, I tie flies for fun. ...that said...I still tie it, because, IMO, it gets the job done in the few instances I tie braid direct to a lure. At the end of the day, it's a great knot and most fishermen should know how to tie it. It works, and works really well, most of the time. ...but I still hate tying the darn things...

Worrying about graphite frames flexing is over-processing. Graphite is only good if you like light weight and strength...

It might be...until you tangle with a 20, 25, or 30 lb. pike. They eat 8 lb. carp.... It all depends on if you are willing to kill the fish to land it. I'm not. It's a personal decision, and one I'm not willing to criticize, but I'm also not going to dance around the facts: Not using enough rod (or line, or reel) on a big pike or musky is going to kill some decades old fish. It's not debatable, not a matter of "if", it is a matter of "when". I'd focus my decision on the species I was targeting, and work from there: Targeting bass, might tie into a 36" plus pike: Medium Power. Targeting pike, will use often for bass: Heavy Power.

If I were going to target pike (and that's what I do, most days on the water) that's the rod I'd pick. I can't speak to the reel, but it seems about right.

The only thing I'd offer here is: Use enough rod. Long fights with pike and muskie really risk killing the fish, particularly in warmer water temps.

I've got an Avid X casting rod that I really like. It was quite a jump from the "regular" Avid series in my opinion. If you're after pike too...and you're really trying to catch "a monster", I'd bump up to the medium heavy. You're going to wind up throwing heavier lures for pike, eventually, if you target them. You don't need to throw huge, multi-ounce lures...but 5/8 oz. is way on the light end for bigger pike.

It's funny...cars and trucks developing smaller motors with bigger HP, then that thing comes along at almost 350 cubic inches...for a boat... Pretty cool. I don't even want to think about the gas bill...

Minn Kota makes a charger that charges your batteries from the main motor's alternator: https://minnkotamotors.johnsonoutdoors.com/board-alternator ...I don't have a lot of faith it'll get them anywhere near fully charged unless you make really long runs between spots...the math just doesn't work. Great advice on batteries above. Get an on-board and plug it in when you get home. If you are experiencing, or are worried about, running out of power on really long days, another option is to bump up to a 36 volt trolling motor. I fish long days in wind, and in current on rivers and have never come close to running my 36 volt system out of juice.

Cheese and rice...

I just move the boat over... ? But: Concrete floor. Single axle trailer. 2,500 lb. boat.

I haven't stepped up to the Rizutto finish yet, still stumbling along with the half hitch solution. I tie the half hitches in alternating directions, then finish off with a double or triple wrap. I still get "the fuzzy" sometimes, but it doesn't impact the knot...so I don't sweat it... Super glue works, so dues something like UV Knot Sense.

Nothing to be sorry about...you were being honest about your perception. Me too. PS: if the Ultrex had power trim, I'd have one.

2 ft. plus near Chetek, WI this weekend. Check that location on a map and make your own decision...

Fun topic about a boat that doesn't cost $50K, fully rigged. Thanks folks!