SENKOSAM

Paul pretty much echoed what many experienced anglers know for a fact - individual waters contain individual bass affected by different variables that affect fishing and for the most part lessen predictability and catch rates. What research does show are the biological attributes and limitations bass have as well as as well as how they relate to those variables which many anglers have been ignorant of and assume incorrectly reasons bass bite or not. Knowing Bass, by Jones points out many facts about bass, lures and lab findings in controlled and uncontrolled environments, confirmed by other studies and experienced anglers. The book includes the variables we all encounter on a daily and seasonal basis filtered by bass senses for the most part but in conjunction with neural responses/reactions (aka unsophisticated cerebral ability). So let's not bash science or research altogether, but appreciate findings that may clarify the why and how fishing is a sport and rarely a sure thing. Both research and anglers have room for error statistically and individually, indicating that a guess can sometimes outweigh massive research, but most important, disprove claims made by lure companies and sponsors promoting sales for one dumb reason or another. Match the hatch as well as other dogmatic generalities stated over and over in Bassmaster and BASS Times will always stick in my craw as fallacies that research and my own experiences over 55 years has challenged, refuted or modified! In my opinion, I basically compare a bass's brain to that of a one month old child that instinctively exhibits certain automatic behaviors (the act of suckling, cooing, expressing discomfort and fear and when to fall asleep). Bass by comparison suspend, feed when hungry or provoked, flee when alarmed and chose to touch, mouth or ingest objects it shouldn't, just like a curious human baby. The big difference is that when a baby is startled or awakened abruptly, it cries; a bass after a split second of composure, will quickly analyze the sudden appearance of an object and then react to it one of three ways. How much learning goes on? About as much as a one month old infant stuck with that IQ for the rest of it's life. Again each to his own beliefs, but as long as individual anglers catch fish different ways on the same day in the same water or different nearby water, that's all the validation I need. And that is a constant!

Has anyone considered the fact that some lures will never suffer from lack of strikes due to a shape and action that simulate a fish? Jones stated that bass and other predator fish (most freshwater species) prey on fish as the mainstay off their diet. The lures pictured fit the shape and action of fish, even the stick at the right. These lures always catch some bass as well as other species regardless of rig or presentation. My color choice never matches anything - I let shape and action do the talking. Seeing as how dependable they all year round (except in winter when downsizing is a given), is it a wonder that fish, even those hooked before, have no problem choosing them over live bait. These lures are not reaction type baits such as crankbaits, spinnerbaits, noisy surface lures or other in-your-face lures; they are subtle, slow and teasing - one of the best for heavily fished waters. They fit in perfectly with a bass's genetic disposition to target fish over any other animal. No learning or unlearning possible. As far as colors go, few are all that are ever needed and never need to simulate actual fish species such as gills, perch or shiners. If anything, flash & contrast are my choice regardless of water color, appealing to the visual targeting ability of bass along with the stream-lined shape and quiver of body and tail. (Note the pearl nail polish painted on then bottom of the Rapala.) Let the lab rats test these lures on over a hundred bass, over a year or two, and it's doubtful that fish will or can avoid attacking them, some more than others when fish are susceptible. (Small sticks work better more often than 5" baits and Rapalas least.) Frank

A laboratory can be a lake but most likely a pond is better and I made one complete with thick weed bed, pads, fish (stocked per permit), depth of 9' maximum and even a hump. Of course I couldn't prevent my neighbor from adding some quality bass and other fish and most have thrived (except those eaten). Over the last six years I've learned a few things from the fish regardless of species, especially bass. 1. Bass were able to associate a bass boat hooked to my truck with getting fed in the early evening between 6 and 7 pm. I've added yellow perch to build a forage base to be able to feed my fish and those that grow from birth. At first I would just drop six or so into the water and pull away. The following week I noticed a bass looking at me from about 5' away with part of it's body in the weeds. I dropped in a perch and it was swiftly snatched and made off with. A few days later, I did the same except now there were three bass waiting to be fed. Mind you these were not the stockies from the fish farm - too large. In the last three years, some bass always come when the truck and boat arrive parallel to the same shoreline, at the same time of day except when the water temp drops below 55. I've had as many as five bass at a time and one that is fully exposed no more than 3' from me. Even my wading border collies don't bother them when food is involved. 2. Note that many of these bass have been caught over and over, but not only still bite lures, but are so conditioned by a stimulus, they lack fear or subdue the memory of the trauma being caught when I feed them. It's not as if there isn't enough fish swimming around - there are hundreds of all sizes. Besides, these fish are also caught through the ice on soft plastics even though prey fish are present in this tiny pond throughout the year. So, with so much food present, why would a bass even consider attacking a lure? As far as lure burn out, some lures always get bit, more so by juveniles. But at times many older bass bite the same design in different areas (ie. punching a creature bait through heavy vegetation) on the same day. Will future generations learn that a boat and truck mean an easy meal dropped from above? Obviously not an inherited lesson because different generations are caught by just a few lures most times over and over, just as many bass are caught over and over on the same type of lures in large lakes and rivers. In my opinion, fish are not capable of communicating negative experiences or learning from another fish's negative experience. All this tells me as that at times, a bass's priorities can be affected by anglers whether or not they are feeding and that lures are not usually attacked because of appetite.

A laboratory can be a lake but most likely a pond is better and I made one complete with thick weed bed, pads, fish (stocked per permit), depth of 9' maximum and even a hump. Of course I couldn't prevent my neighbor from adding some quality bass and other fish and most have thrived (except those eaten). Over the last six years I've learned a few things from the fish regardless of species, especially bass. 1. Bass associate a bass boat hooked to my truck with getting fed. I like adding yellow perch to the forage to be able to feed my fish and those that grow from birth. At first I would just drop six or so into the water and pull away. The following week I noticed a bass looking at me from about 5' away with part of it's body in the weeds. I dropped in a perch and it was swiftly snatched and made off with. A few days later, i did the same except now there were three bass waiting to be fed. Mind you these were not the stockies from the fish farm - too large. In the last three years, some bass always come when the truck and boat arrive parallel to the same shoreline, except when the water temp drops below 55. Note that many of these bass have been caught over and over, but not only still bite lures, but are conditioned to be fed within the year of having been caught.

.... because anglers believe what they see, hear and read and run out to buy more! Bass aren't the only ones fooled by lures and lure makers. I no longer give up on lures that produce year after year and as much as the discussion is interesting, it won't change the way I fish or what I use to catch bass, memorable or not.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090414153532.htm

According to K. Jones, not all bass are alike in that some can be caught many times and some only a few. This was the study Jone's and Tom referred to: Were any caught on the same lures more than once? How similar in design and color? How different the presentation? What length of time between captures? What lures were found to be rejected first; which least? What was the water like - clarity, temperature, stain, etc.? Too many variables to make general statements about lure burn out and general lure rejection, as Paul said after I stated the same previously. But Paul also made this statement which holds true: This also most definitely pertains to waters that have fewer accomplished bass anglers to pressure bass where they hang out with lures they have minimal exposure to. I still maintain the more 'natural' and subdued the action and presentation, the less rejection overall. Downsizing may also have a positive effect on catching pre-caught bass which is why drop shot, 4" soft plastics work so well. Ask Ike! (Tom, the report also states, "Male bass are the sole caregiver for the offspring. Females lay eggs and leave.") Read it on the Science Daily site.

What are the chances a bass is caught by the same lure? Maybe in an aquarium where a study confirms long term memory, but in a large body of water? In any one year a new lure can do well, but lake conditions may change just enough to relocate bass that were easy to catch on a lure many just happened to use. The following year most bass don't remember the lure anyway, but it may remember and associate trolling motor sounds with danger after having been caught multiple times week after week and in consecutive years. Virgin bass are easy to catch - pressured bass not so much.

Getting back to the reasons bass strike lures, I found some interesting statements in Knowing Bass that describe the sequence I mentioned when observing underwater videos.

source? Why would a female who has laid some eggs be any different than one who laid eggs leftover from a previous spawn? I haven't read anywhere that a female will return to a nest or that they 'keep watch'.

Knowing Bass, p.9 The female may also lay more eggs in a different location, starting the process with another male. Another source:

Let's get #2 out of the way first. How much time is a bass defending a nest in its lifetime? Females - none. Feeding pertains to feeding on living real prey that a bass instinctively knows is alive via its senses. The reaction sought comes from whatever makes a bass decide to strike or react to an artificial IMO. Science and humans can only offer conjecture from their own point of view and that of the simple biological urges they associate with all predator aggression. I've watched many videos taken in the wild and a fair amount of them suggest bass are not striking a lure much of the time because of an active feeding mode. If you get a chance to watch the Homer Circle, Glen Lau video set, you'll see what I'm talking about. The reason bass strike artificial baits, especially those they have not been exposed to or that are totally unrealistic, go beyond man's ability to know. I realize the above is unconventional but also an easier way to chose lures based on lure characteristics that aren't intended to look or act like any prey animal a bass normally eats. Each to his own and again, even though I can't say conventional notions are wrong, there's a good chance they are.

This assumes bass are feeding when they bite a lure. Many are not! If I were to watch fish reactions to the presence of a lure underwater, I'd be willing to bet the farm that many fish start out inactive, suspending off bottom, and when a lure is within striking distance or a distance close enough to be observed, a bass becomes active. This usually starts with curiosity and most often ending up with curiosity as it nibbles at or gets a lure in its mouth. Great videos exist on Youtube and in a set I own produced by Glen Lau demonstrating many instances of fish slowly deciding whether to bite something (lure or live animal) and then going after it almost like in slow motion. No darting around, no jumping clear out the water with the object in its mouth, but just slowly closing in, staring at it and then inhaling it in the blink of an eye. I saved an underwater video of perch being caught under the ice and the sequence was exactly like the above. The strangest thing was that the minnow hanging from a spoon was dead and stiff, yet perch came over, milled around as one became interested and started pecking at the minnow. Soon, more large perch were going after the lure, but only after it was jigged. None left the area after three were caught and then more struck! So, in effect, it's not the active fish we're after most of the time (as much as we'd like), but idle fish prone to being provoked by the presence of an unknown object that pushes its buttons. It's what makes punching cover so successful!

Nice topic and a much friendlier and civil discussion than one I started months ago and was reamed by a few (minus mods doing their job and even threatened by one). I congratulate everyone!!! Reflecting on what's been stated, some things have either been left out or touched on briefly without emphasis. Fishing, from basic to advanced levels, must include bass factors and human factors that can not be ignored and the most important word of all, variables, pretty much includes them. Science and Bassmaster magazine has touched on bass factors such as habitat types, fish behavior, diet, anatomy, etc. and from the latter source, at times mixes in misinformation when selling lures and suggests vague ideas, suggestions and reasons as it concerns outings, neither of which are scientific in the least! (It's kind of like watching Bill Dance on TV! lol) But the human variable can never be ignored as the fly in the ointment of fact, especially as it concerns scientific fact vs. opinion based on incomplete facts, wishful thinking, generalizations and superstition. Bass anglers first off are affected by prejudice, the best anglers less so. Have you ever fished a lure you don't have confidence in (even though a B.A.S.S.pro used it to win megabucks), never caught fish on it consistently and then stored it away indefinitely for posterity? Lures that produce less than others may have real value, but today's goal of many for instant gratification coupled with multiple disappointments, skew our evaluation of many lures and presentations that may produce great catches. Not knowing what to use, when or where, affects the catches of great anglers as well as lesser anglers. Knowing bass behavior may help, but it will never be foolproof because of human fallibility starting with prejudice and ignorance induced by inexperience and an inflexible mindset. We say bass are creatures of habit but what about humans? How many of you fall into the same bad habits of using only one or a few lures and presentations in fewer cover/ structure types and depths than you should, especially on tough days after getting few strikes hour after hour? Somewhere in a body of water, fish are prone to being caught and other than where and how you're fishing for them, fish can't be blamed for one's poor choices based on bad habits or execution. Bass may be creatures of habit, but their habits are most times dictated by a biological response to many variables, particularly environmental. Keith Jones offered some interesting factoids, but environmental factors include too many things fish are sensitive to that bass anglers can never completely factor in. Many of you know many of them that can have a dramatic effect: water temperature and levels - rising or falling, light based on sun angle/ water clarity, depth, pH, wind - strength, speed, direction, water level - drought, flood stage, current, and on and on. Time of year/ seasonal variables make all the difference in the world! Prey location and behavior, general fish and other wild life metabolism and activity, pre and post spawn behavior, general boating/ fishing activity, etc, must be factored in. How has science been able to have a controlled experiment to include all of those bass behavior modifiers to be able to predict what bass are up to at any one moment or time period?!! Lure burn out has been mentioned, but bass memory has been studied and found to be limited in capacity and in the length of time memories are stored. Bass may remember some lures after being caught multiple times and shy away from striking them, but for how long - one year, a few years or for as long as it lives? Does the bass share that information with other bass or do all other bass in a water learn from it's demise, spreading the word that, that lure is deadly / avoid it any like it at all costs!!!? Or does human prejudice, including that spread by word of mouth, kill the lure's popularity for a body of water under the category of lure burn out? What about other waters? If the lure does poorly somewhere else, was it because fish were exposed to it too often, a flying fish spread the word between waters or the lure, like most others, has a time and place? Granted, some lures do great the first year, but the reasons why may have nothing to do with their overwhelming fish appeal or novelty, but more to do with fishing variables that put anglers more often in the right place, using one of many lures and presentations to clobber bass day after day in a particular year. To ignore all of the variables that make lures successful prompts one to believe in fairy tales as it concerns certain lures and one's abilities. Variables account for a lure's success, many of which an angler will never know the combination of. So as it concerns scientific predictions of bass behavior, degrees of intelligence and whether of not a group of bass is prone to being caught, I say, the challenge of fishing is not only to catch fish, but to be amazed when we catch them at all! - science be damned (along with fishing shows)! Frank

There are many lures that always work regardless how many anglers use them depending on the water, which kind of negates the lure burn out idea. A few I can always depend on most times of day: jigs and trailers soft plastics in different designs (creature baits, grub minnows, drop shot plastics)

Strange, but yesterday I was fishing a rocky point where I caught a mixed bag -bass, pickerel, crappie and white perch. The water temp has dropped into the low 50's and the only fish I caught in the same spot were bass and crappie. I wonder if the WP have started suspending in deeper water. In any case they need to be culled from the lake to preserve bass and forage fish populations.

The proof will always be in the catching and catching consistently. Interesting that of all the pros that have made it to the top, very few use the same lures, colors and presentations in the same cover or on the same structure to be in the top ten in any given tournament. Could a co-angler have done as well using something different? Many have, many haven't. Science falls short trying to predict what a bass will strike, when and where it will strike or how often. Many pros fail to make even the top 40 in many tournaments, which suggests that knowing thy water is as important as what to cast and that luck, in many instances, is the deciding factor, all things being equal. Boxing oneself into a corner because of any information source ultimately limits one's success and today's truth may be less than accurate or false tomorrow. Flukes happen! That pretty much says it all.

I don't think learning to survive is applicable since the survival instinct is already part of an animal's DNA encoding. It doesn't need to learn to feed or be coached by it's parents - it automatically begins feeding after it's hatched and automatically increases the size of its prey as it get older and larger. As far as finding sources of food, it may just hang out waiting for prey to come to it, run with schools or migrate a distance where it senses prey will be. Patterns consist of anglers learning which choice a population of bass chooses to be near a food source in a specific water. When noting negatives of a bait (and you mentioned quite a few!), many anglers don't take into account the simple fact that BASS SIMPLY DON'T CARE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE INCAPABLE. Why do they inhale a plastic worm or any other slow moving bait they have a long time to study and think about? Fact is nothing in their DNA gives them any cognitive ability and their instinct for survival only goes so far and in fact falls far short when it comes to animals that prey on them and anglers that hunt them. When a color or bait seems to catch less bass, The first statement IMO is far more likely, the second one never proven in a large sample of waters by a large number of experienced bass anglers. Keith Jones in Knowing Bass gives a plausible explanation plastic worms and minnow shaped lures work: and Back to color preference: Another factor Jones mentions is the importance of lure size range. Some bass prefer lures in a size range on the small side, others respond to a range of larger sizes, but any bass may hit any one size lure, small, medium or large, anytime conditions are ideal outside the range. All of the above give me reasons to chose certain baits in certain colors, none having to do with a non-existent fish intelligence so many believe exists. Lock & key, like binary computer code - on or off, makes more sense when it comes to lure success.

Mahopac and unfortunately my local lake, Orange Lake outside of Newburgh - also a home owner sponsored overstocking.

Must be something other than the muskies that caused a decline in the fishery. Could be the homeowners taking out every bit of weeds with harvesting machines in mid spring into summer, reducing cover for fingerlings. When I say bare I mean BARE!

I would go one step further - it also has to feel, move, taste of and smell alive - or in other words, sense provoking. I believe a bass is wired to know the difference between realistic looking lures and a live protein source it's supposed to simulate, never confusing the two in the wild. Plus I agree with your statement, I'll go one step further: Some lures have unique characteristics that simulate the action of a prey animal regardless of overall appearance (ie spinnerbait in your example); other lure actions primarily just make them take notice and challenge them by being a bit too flashy in appearance or motions within their zones of aggression. The fluke and Mann's Shadow are perfect examples of action simulations close to those of minnows. The waddle of swimbaits simulate that of a cat fish/ mad tom. The quiver/flash of a 3" Rapala (in the right hands) simulates that of a minnow in it's last gasps near the surface, while the suspending X-Rap simulates something different - a fish pausing mid-depth. Granted, these simulations of actions and motion may not be convincing to a bass that the lure is a real animal, but simulated actions can't hurt when bass are already primed for action, needing that extra push. Finesse lures and their presentations are mostly successful due to live bait action-simulations and anglers buy many of the most expensive plugs because they excel at providing that something that triggers a response when worked slowly. Sudden reflex responses don't require finesse and highly unrealistic looking and moving lures fit into a lure category that challenges a bass, raising its aggression level in the shortest period of time. Fast moving, wide-wobble crankbaits and burned, large willow leaf spinnerbaits don't give a fish time to raise its aggression level slowly and multiple strikes sometimes happen in the same area (but only when the time is right to use those lures). Nice talking to you coryn along the lines of conjecture based on experience . Fish aren't logical, but anglers should be, though many are very successful believing conventional reasons fish strike lures. I haven't taught my grandkids those reasons and they do very well catching fish near their casts on lures that may or may not simulate. After seeing a worm squirm on the hook, they will never use live bait again!

A far less accepted view would be that bass never believe an artificial is a real representation of anything it eats or that it was exposed to for the first time. Remember the Glen Lau video of the bass taking down the duckling by its leg? Remember an event where a large California bass was found to have diver's weights in its stomach? Fish are stupid and on a scale of intelligence as compared to higher forms, ranks right down there with insects and as with insects have reflexes and instincts to help them survive. But unlike mammals with reflexes and instincts, a bass does not have the mental capacity to think beyond them, mental being the key word. If it did, it would have characteristics that demonstrate some sort of intelligence instead of simple neurological activity. To put this into a fish's simple response-to-artificials perspective, if one considers the possibility that a bass is not capable of knowing what an artificial represents but instead simply reacts because the lure pushes it's aggression buttons, than an angler may chose what lure characteristics work best at what time of day or year and how the lure is presented. The best anglers figured this out the first time they switched from one lure type and action to another and caught bass. Relating this to the idea that a bass always thinks a lure is one thing but then rejects it because it's not part of its diet-of-the-moment, suggests that it is capable of thoughtful choice, like that of a child refusing to eat peas but not candy. But, IMO, a bass will always opt to eat a real life form (strange or familiar) because its instincts and body tell it to by whatever physiological means it has that far surpass anything a human has minus the power of a complex brain. Intelligence requires the possession of a mind. Bass don't have minds but rather reflexes that get them into trouble when they slowly or instantly react to an artifical lure. We think of all reflexive action as instantaneous and confuse it with voluntary action - defined as I'm convinced from years of catching bass on artificials that reflexive and involuntary actions intersect, but only when it comes to artificial lures, but that reflexive and voluntary actions happen when a bass's senses confirms a thing is alive and edible. In the same sense (no pun), a bass voluntarily rejects something based on a set of senses that easily determine real life, but at the same time attack an object that forces it to react but not necessarily feed on based on it being irritated by its presence. An obvious example would be to place a real crawfish near a bass and at the same time, a jig with craw-type trailer. Which would the bass go for? I don't care if KVD was working the jig - the craw would be consumed and the jig ignored. On the other hand, picture prey being in abundance near a bass, but all of a sudden a jig hits bottom, begins to moves on or off the bottom and bang! a bass attacks! Did it hit because for one moment it believed the lure a real crawfish? Did nearby bass learn the lesson from seeing a bass being caught on it that jigs should always be avoided? Doubtful. Do bass in a feeding frenzy attack lures that appear similar to what they are feeding on - usually other fish regardless of species? I've been fortunate to catch bass schooled within casting distance on different lure types and still caught bass after bass. A higher aggression level made the fish strike, yet its simple brain didn't warn it to avoid lures that took fish out of the school or that a worm is not a fish. The above makes lure choice a no-brainer, pun intended.

Interesting you say that. Tiger Muskies were introduced into Greenwood Lake, NY and now the bass fishery isn't anywhere near what it was15 years ago. Just coincidence? Did the pike end up helping control the WP?

There is no way to eradicate a species unless, as you say, take out everything and restock. That was done in a trout lake to get rid of smallmouth not far from me. But if the club can put a dent on the thousands of perch every year, especially those 12" or bette and remove them, hopefully bass and pickerel will shave off a few thousand more over the years. Just to see how many were in a school in 1 FOW, I fan cast a flat. I must have hooked over 50 - 3" WP. Every place crappie hung out, so did WP and WP commonly swim in schools of mixed species and by size. I've caught bass, pickerel, WP, crappie and yellow perch in the same school located near rocks and points - but more WP recently.

Thanks Kayak for the relevant reply. Unfortunately the lake is private and far fewer meat anglers take fish like years ago. In fact I know of one member that take lunker bass out to stock his pond - all legal. My fish & game club mostly fishes for bass/pickerel/pike for our tournament stats and many, believe it or not, don't have the right tackle, know-how or desire to fish for pan fish. In recent years some members came in with a dozen crappie after fishing for six hours, but now the targeted species should be nothing but WP and anyone will catch at least 10 pounds in that time. Of the 70 pounds my partner and I caught, both livewells in my boat were full and the floor littered with a layer of fish - no other species other than WP! If the members aren't serious about protecting the lake, I'm not going to kill WP by myself. Besides, the big ones are fun to catch on small bass lures! (Wonder how WP taste...) BTW - No state DEC limits on WP of any kind.