MFBAB

I think we've got a squatch in my neighborhood too.... My harrowing story: - I put the trash can out on the curb this morning and went to work. - When I returned home, my trash can and all of the others on the street were emptied out! This all went down in broad daylight too, these things are getting pretty aggressive! They have apparently figured out the cities trash schedule because this only happens on trash day. Anyone else experience something like this??

This!! Somebody put together a basic T-Rig: - They had an egg sinker/not a bullet sinker on hand. 90% (a number I made up) of C-Rig users throw Egg sinkers, but for whatever reason no one uses them on T-Rigs. - They had a bait hook/not an offset or an EWG on hand. This is how A LOT of people fish. It may be how THE MOST people fish. Meaning, the average fisherman, for bass or whatever, isn't nearly as gear-obsessed as most of us here-not even close They don't prioritize fishing in their day-to-day, they just grab what's on hand and try to make it work when (or of) the mood to fish strikes.

A viewpoint from the perspective of the kid who dug out a dusty tackle box in his grandfathers garage and went fishing to kill some time: Hmmmm, So let me get this straight...There are actually people bored enough to 1- pull your lost rig up from the depths, 2 - photograph it, 3 - post it on the internet 4 - and then other people will chat about it and make fun of it for entertainment? Because there was an egg sinker instead of a bullet sinker in the dusty tackle box? And because there was a bait hook instead of an EWG? And because I was never taught to tie a Palomar? "Dang, what a bunch of losers!" (is probably what the kid would say)

The post I made earlier about point fishing is perfect for someone in your position. There is no need for electronics to work that pattern. Electronics and mapping will definitely help to find the sweet-spots on the points faster, but they are unnecessary. The one thing I would add for you to the original post is this: - Add a couple of crankbaits to your arsenal of the 3 rods. - You want a Bandit 100 (runs about 4' deep), - a Bandit 200 (runs 6-8 feet deep) - and a Bandit 300 (runs about 10-12' deep). - With these 3 lures, since you know the running depths, you can fan cast them around the points and somewhat map out the depths and contours of the area, and you will find the hard cover and breaks on the points as well. - I'd recommend doing this with braid and the hooks removed on the baits if you're worried about losing them, you can add the hooks back or switch to weedless rigs when you find the breaks and cover on the point. **This all assumes that your lakes are not mapped on the Navionics app that someone mentioned earlier

Uh, I'm gonna need to fish this pond myself before I can really give you any good advice Just send me the GPS coords asap!! Seriously, I'd throw what's working for your buddy. In general, when it's sunny and still, throw the slower moving stuff like the Senko or T-Rigs, and when it's lower light or windy, try the moving baits more, like the buzzer and spinner. Sounds like a fairly unpressured pond, hope you get some bigguns!!

Yep, that looks like some of the same set I mentioned Hootie!! I think the Blue ones on the bottom are from some other library, not BASS right? Maybe North American Fishing Club or something like that?? I like the old InFisherman handbooks too. I never knew I was supposed to call Reelfoot Lake Eutrophic before reading that

I got a large leather-bound set a couple of months ago used-around 20 books +/-, I think it's called the Ultimate Bass Library. It's basically just a ton of old bassmaster articles culled through for quality and grouped up by topic, each book focuses on an individual theme. If you haven't seen that set, I'd recommend checking Ebay or Amazon for them!! I have really enjoyed them so far. If you haven't read an article before, it's still new, right??

I agree on the shoreline part, but I honestly don't see a lot of people just going point-to-point. which to me is the more efficient way to go about your bank beating and near-shore structure fishing. As far as the offshore thing goes, it's gotten really crowded on the ledge lakes since GPS/Mapping combos have become more or less ubiquitous. It cracks me up a little, whenever I'm running down the ledges at Pickwick or Kentucky Lake, I can see the ledges coming up on my map and you'll see boats up ahead on all of the obvious ones-the boats look like they're just out in the middle of the lake unless you have Navionics, which all of them do now The only unmolested ledge fish are the ones on sections where Navionics didn't map out the ledges in 1' contours. A good example is KY Lake for a long ways below Pickwick Dam. There are the same wonderful ledges on that part of the lake that the whole river has, but it's a ghost town when you fish them because it's not laid out for people automatically on their GPS. It sort of breaks my heart - NOT!!! The poor bank fish are all but forgotten these days on some lakes!!

The fastest way I know of to "take their temperature" so to speak, is to just run points ONLY for a while: - Take 3 rods, a topwater (Buzzer or Hard Bait), a mid-range (crank or spinner) and a bottom bait (Jig or T-Rig). - Just go from point to point, primary, secondary, main lake, from front to back in the creek arms, big ones/small ones, etc. Skip all of the straight banks in between. - You can cover a lot of water very quickly with this method because you are eliminating over 90% of the lake. - You can alternate from fishing shallow to deep (Boat over deep water) and from deep to shallow (Boat next to the bank) every other point - You want to make about 5 quick casts with each presentation on each point until you have started getting a few bites. You're not trying to saturate these areas at this stage, you are just trying to take their temp right now...Just make a few good casts and move on, you want to hit dozens of these in a day!! Obviously, have some fun when you hit the schools, but don't camp out and try to force-feed fish if they don't hit after the first few casts-you are on a new lake looking for active fish, which will lead you to the places you'll want to camp out later. - You can also alternate the angles you make your casts from point to point - fire across from a perpendicular angle one time, then next time crawl it up by fan casting from the bank out to the deeper sections, then reverse that angle and fan-cast from the drop-off back towards the bank. - Once you start getting bites, you start looking for what the productive points have in common. - Are the main lake? Are they long tapering ones or do they break quickly? Do they touch creek channels? Are they back deep in the creek arms (Fall or Spring?) - The POINT is, this is a quick way to break down a lake right off the bat, you will obviously expand on the pattern as you begin to get a grip on what sections of the lake and water depths they are relating too. If you've got wind or current hitting those points, you may never even need to expand on it, or put down the Buzzer and Crankbait rod either

Not homemade, it's a new product: http://www.***.com/River2Sea_Double_Plopper_Buzzbait/descpage-R2SDP.html

I don't know what the other guys are saying, but IMO, a total lack of light absolutely affects the bass, but IN A POSITIVE way!! That creates an advantageous feeding situation for them, a dark night acts similar to windy/cloudy/rainy conditions for bass, as predators they are best able to feed when there are conditions that best enable them to ambush prey. Dark+ windy/cloudy/rainy = even better!! (obvious exceptions would be these conditions when coupled with a massive cold front or flash-flood type situation, for example) I think one of the biggest mistakes most fishermen make is to try and equate bass vision to human vision....it's not the same. The bass is able to see a lot better than we can imagine in muddy water or pitch black nighttime conditions. They don't have (or need) flashlights like we do, but they darn well feed rain or shine, day or night, hot or cold, etc...somehow!! They are the apex predator in most of the waters where I fish, at least after reaching a reasonable size, and they are well equipped to hunt day or night. They don't have a problem finding our baits at night, but they still won't hit them if we don't present them correctly based on what they are feeding on at the time, ie: make the presentation imitate what the prey is doing, which will probably be a lot more impacted by the various weather/light conditions at any given time. In other words, What we perceive as the bass reacting to conditions is probably more often the bass reacting to the preys reaction to the conditions. JMO

That is sort of the point of what I was saying earlier. It was the same way in golf about 50 years ago. The golf money got big when TV coverage evolved to the point that they could cover a tourney in an interesting way. Prior to the Jack and Arnie era, most of the best players didn't even play pro golf, they went into business so they could make a better living and have a normal family life, and they played amateur golf. - TV opens the door to all of the non-endemic sponsorship contracts, then the prize money follows. Right now, tourney bass fishing is unmarketable to the non-endemics for a few reasons: 1 - The tourneys are all but impossible to cover in real time on a 50-100,000 acre lake with 100-200 competitors in the field. As stated before, golf is an 18 hole course that everyone plays in the same order, keeping score and covering it is simple. - The format for fishing has got to be revised to make it more TV friendly, then the advertising and big $ will follow. 2 - There are 2 major tournament trails for pros in a sport that has watered down prize money already. - FLW and BASS have got to merge for pro bass fishing to truly be viable. You have got to have truly the best in the world duking it out, and they have got to have a longer season and real-time coverage. People on this forum are WAY above-average in terms of interest. The average guy doesn't even know there was a BASS tourney this w/end, and by the time they happen to see it replayed on ESPN 2 in a few weeks, if they are even tuned in to ESPN2 at like 7 in the morning on a Sunday, the tourney is old news already. Think about this: If the super bowl or the world series was aired a month after the game, who would really even care about watching it?? I said it before and I'll stand by it, there are a ton more fishermen than golfers in this country, and I'm willing to bet that more is spent on fishing every year than golf by a wide margin. You don't need a boat or a truck to go play golf, and tackle costs as much or more than golf clubs. - What is the equivalent of Bass Pro Shops (Let alone Cabelas) in golf marketing? There isn't a golf retailer on even a remotely comparable scale. The interest is there, it's just sort of an untapped market at this point because I honestly think they just haven't figured out the logistics of presenting a tourney in real-time yet.

Right, that's what I'm saying. I think there needs to be some consolidation of the time no matter what. Even in golf, they only show about 2 hours on Th-Fr and then maybe a longer block of time on the w/end. The players are playing all day, but they consolidate the coverage to a much smaller period and show highlights and live coverage of the day. And then the format may need a little tweaking to work for TV, smaller fields for sure.

Thx guys. I know about the online coverage, but I'd prefer an actual "produced" TV show. I think it's marketable, I just think it's logistically difficult to present fishing that way. I mean, there have to be more fishermen in this country than golfers, right? And we all know that the fishing gear is already being marketed hard in every fishing TV show we've got, I just think it's got to be reformatted into something more "made for TV". Golf is played on an 18 hole course w cameras on every hole and the scoring is easy to follow; standard "5 Bass Limit" tourney fishing just isn't that way, unless you start tweaking the format into something along the lines of the MLF format, which as I understand was largely designed by the pros, and largely designed w TV in mind. There was a good discussion about that on another board not long ago where actual MLF personnel were involved in the discussion, so that is not made up. I believe that long-term, they may be working towards pretty much what I described in the last post, something like a live 4-day event that would play out along the lines of how a PGA event is televised. 50 years ago there wasn't any money in golf, but TV changed that. Bass fishing could be the same way if someone can figure out the logistics.

Done deal, KVD Held on!! I wish BASS and FLW would get their TV coverage together, or actually I wish they would just merge into one league. It stinks to wait so long to watch these things on TV The guy who figures out a fishing format that works for Live TV should make a fortune. MLF is about the closest thing that would work, I think they film their whole season in about a week and then stretch it out for TV over several weeks, but I'd much rather watch it live, like a 4 day golf tourney or something.

KVD is leading by 2 lbs. and culling midway through the final day (today) at BASS Cayuga lake: http://www.bassmaster.com/basstrakk/tournaments/bassmaster-elite-cayuga-lake

Absolutely!! I love fishing around the Marinas when I'm there. There is easy topwater fishing early and late (and at night) at any of the Marinas, and also pretty much anywhere you find Rip-Rap at Pickwick!! Have Fun!

If you're in dirty water, I doubt they are moving to anything very deep. I'm assuming there's no grass, current, or anything like that. I'd look for the best cover on that flat and deadstick something in the middle of it during daylight, or in the absence of obvious cover, I'd find the sharpest breaks adjacent to it, and probably the ones most associated with the bank, like corners or drains, but I'd expect the bass to be suspended adjacent to those breaks, not necessarily on the bottom, especially in summer, and especially if the lake gets a thermocline. That doesn't mean they are easy to catch, but they do that a lot in dirty water ponds/lakes here without a lot of cover (Ned Rig, Underspin, Jerkbait, sometimes ripping something like a jig off the bottom and letting it fall through them might trigger too). With less than a foot of viz, you'll get a little temp/oxygen barrier around 3-4' deep a lot of the time in summer and they suspend on it when they aren't feeding. Were you catching them at 10' deep during summer or a cooler water period? If it was summer, then they might suspending around 10' on a break or cover when they aren't active. That whole thing about suspending wouldn't apply for cold water, then I'd think bottom presentations. On second thought, forget all that. I'd just throw a buzzbait at 'em on a dark night

Ha, yes I guess I should have specified the Full moon on the Sun comparison, the New moon phase isn't very sun-like When I quoted you before, I was talking about using the same baits as daytime, I think everyone tends to go out and focus on topwater only, black only, big baits, all of those stereotypical things associated w night fishing. My point was, my interpretation of what you mean by fishing the same baits regardless of night/or day, is that you just go fishing and react to the conditions the way we are all supposed to do...You're not trying to reinvent the wheel at night. AKA, if the weather moves in during the day or night, it causes the fish to change, if it gets bright and calm during the day or night, it causes a similar reaction, etc..You don't just go out and say, "well, the suns down, throw a big topwater all night!!" (which is to some extent what I've been doing a lot of the time, and a lot of the time it works, just not always). I'm agreeing totally on the topwater analysis, now I've just got to start "going fishing" at night on those brighter/calmer periods! Although not mentioned, the Jerks (Floaters, wakers, and countdowns) and Traps are absolutely a big part of my arsenal, although I haven't been using them at night during the last year. Deep cranks are tough for me from the bank though. I had committed to the topwater thing because I wanted to be able to go back and make an across the board comparison to all of these ponds I've been fishing for the last year, and I felt like limiting the bait selection as much as possible, at least for the night fishing trips, would help me to make a more consistent evaluation. I was new to the numerous local ponds because I had always boat fished and also pretty green at night fishing in general a year ago, so I felt like "sacrificing" the first year or so would be a great way to build up a large fishing log covering as many different ponds, water colors, weather situations, pond types, seasonal patterns, etc. as possible. I've learned a lot from the experience, but although I have always entered the moon data for each trip, it never really occurred to me to look at the moon just at face value (bright/dark/rise/set), rather than through the lens of the solunar charts...so thanks again to you three for bringing it up in A-Jays thread!! Lessons Learned: No guarantee of a topwater bite at night, only no sunburns!!

I'd agree that the stained water works better for me on average than the clear for the night buzzbait deal. I catch more that way on average in water w less than say 18" viz regardless of the moonlight, but dark nights still outperform brighter ones for both clear & stained situations in my case. My sample size included at least 40 different ponds with a variety of water colors. I do tinker with the blades (gold for dirty/silver or clear plastic for clear water or moonlit nights in dirty), skirts, trailers, retrieve speeds and sizes, but for me the buzzer definitely does not produce as well in ultra-clear water for either numbers or size. I've been focused on running lots of new water for the last year, but if I were to start cherry-picking conditions to go after a good topwater bite on the clear ponds specifically, I would look for windy/cloudy/rainy/darker conditions; it just makes those clear water fish do some stewpid stuff that they won't do when they can see You and A-Jay done talked me into throwing some jigs in the near future!

scaleface, What sort of an approach are you using on bright vs. dark nights, or do you tend to use the same presentations regardless? Just curious if you might be the reverse of my issue. I feel like the more aggressive topwater approach I've been using across the board at night is hampering me during the brighter periods, but I would expect that if someone were T-Rig fishing exclusively (just as an example), they might have almost the exact opposite results as me. I do want to be clear though, I'm not trying to say that the fishing is worse on bright nights, just that it's worse using Buzzbaits and power oriented presentations almost exclusively, as I have been. I absolutely think that there is good fishing to be had during either bright or dark conditions, I've just been failing to make the proper adjustments for several reasons, but at least partially because I didn't fully realize how skewed my productivity was until today

I've been keeping my records on a spreadsheet for the last couple of years and there are times when the trends almost jump off of the page when you are able to look at your fishing log in rows and columns....but this one was eluding me. I definitely had an inkling that the fishing had generally been better on the dark nights, and I've been able to get out the last few nights during this current full moon cycle-and the results have been fair with moments of average sprinkled in on these bright nights, so I was already thinking the moonlight was sort of a big factor. Then when I read the exchange about the moon (quoted in the OP), I knew it was time to start digging just to either put my mind at ease or start thinking about making some adjustments!! I don't want to put this theory or data set forth as the end-all, certainly others results may vary, but I will begin to make some adjustments and over time we'll see how things go. Learning that you have a problem is only the first step, fixing it may take a little time but I think I'm finally getting my mind in the right place on the subject. I plan on basically pretending that the moon is to nighttime fishing as the sun is to daytime fishing, it it's up high on a clear night, I'm going to expect the fish to be tight to cover or on deeper structure. If the wind blows and the clouds roll in, I'll expect them to be roaming or set up on feeding stations, etc...I'm just going to do what I'd normally do during daylight as the light and other conditions change.

Catt, would you mind talking about this a little more? Are you saying that the Moon rise and set is causing a light change, and therefore creating a feeding period, similar to the Sunrise/Sunset? I know that the moon rise and set are the "minors" on the solunar tables, and the overhead and underfoot are the majors...I guess I've been looking at the moon in relation to the solunar tables-from more of a "gravitational pull" aspect than from a "light" aspect. Am I getting warm??

Thanks A-Jay! About the Buzzbait being obscured, I have had some amazing nights on that thing in rain and wind. I used to think the same thing about it getting lost in the surface clutter-but they can and will find that sucker!! Even a 1/4 Oz. with a fairly small blade which is my standard size for ponds, it can be a killer in the rain. I've been running the topwater stuff this last year at night almost exclusively for a couple of reasons: 1 - I'm fishing a lot of new-to-me ponds, I just switched from boat to bank fishing after we had our first child, so I wanted to fish a lot of this new water with a consistent approach so I could more easily compare results on the various ponds. The plan is to expand the repertoire after a few sample runs w the topwater regimen. 2 - Just simplicity for bank fishing and ability to cover water fast. After this recent revelation on the light conditions at night, I will absolutely be altering my presentations A LOT more as the conditions warrant. The numbers don't lie. I always advise people to keep good fishing records, and this is why we do it. I always considered myself a "Conditions" fisherman during daylight fishing, but as embarrassed as I am to admit it, I totally fell into the trap of thinking "Night-is-Night", it's all the same. I've made the same observations as you noted in your thread about how the moonlight penetrates and how you can see underwater better on bright nights, and how the moon casts shadows just like the sun, and I just ignored it and kept chucking that buzzbait, but no longer I'm going to start fishing the same at night as I do during the day, meaning the same variables like wind/rain/clouds/water color will dictate bait selection. RE: Your punch rig, are you swimming that w the boot tail grubs? I'm a big fan of the keel-weighted swimbait hooks (Rage Rig) and swimjigs in general, I just got the do-it mold this past year so they are pretty expendable cost wise for me. I feel like an idiot for not realizing this sooner! I've always tracked the solunar periods and I've never seen any meaningful correlations surface w that data. I just totally overlooked the brightness factor as being such a strong determinant of their positioning at night (+wind/water color, etc...). I mean, it's literally just like the sun during the day: it rises, it sets, it shines bright on a clear night. The moonrise and set times do vary each night, but the influence of the light is seemingly very important.

I had a couple of odd Buzzbait catches last week, thought I'd share. Wednesday night I had a 5 Lb. catfish just destroy the buzzer, the biggest cat I've caught on one. I didn't think too much of it, stranger things have happened. Then, 2 nights later, I had a massive blow-up on the Buzzer at a different pond, I thought it was a monster bass...but about 30 minutes later and all the way across the pond, it happened again! This time it was about a 6 lb. cat, and I knew instantly what was going on. They are spawning right now, and just being territorial!! At any rate, if you like to catch catfish, I would advise going shallow and fishing for them in areas you would for spawning bass. BTW, the bass are biting lately too: This collage was one night last week over about a 90 minute period, 4-5-6-7 Lbs. This one weighed 6.5 and darn near swallowed my buzzer, I've never seen one down that deep before. I only had about 5 feet of line out when she hit too! Hope everyone is catching a few!!